1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Soul Liberty - A Baptist Distinctive

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Van, Sep 11, 2024.

  1. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    28,742
    Likes Received:
    1,136
    Faith:
    Baptist
    God hath endowed the wills of men with that natural liberty and power of acting upon choice, that it is neither forced, nor by any necessity of nature determined to do good or evil."

    One of the verses cited to support the assertion is Deuteronomy 30:19 which says God sets before us the choice of life or death. This is contrary to the doctrine of Total Spiritual Inability, which says we will only choose one of the many roads leading to death.

    Now this choice was set before us after the Fall, and therefore our being predisposed to sin did not preclude the possibility of choosing life. Therefore the actual biblical doctrine should be the “Limited Spiritual Ability” of the unregenerate lost.

    Humankind has three enemies, Satan, the World –with its corrupt values, and our fleshly desires. All three at one time or another set before us choices where we usually choose sin. But, according to James 1:14 we are tempted, not compelled, and therefore have some ability to choose not to sin. But even if we do choose according to God’s beneficial will, this does not result in “good works” for all our works of righteousness prior to salvation are as filthy rags. Nothing we do earns or merits our salvation, it is the gracious gift of God.

    James 1:14-15
    But each one is tempted when he is carried away and enticed by his own lust. Then when lust has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it has run its course, brings forth death.


    Now the Greek word, translated "lust" simply means desire, craving, longing, but in our fallen corrupted state, our longings produce (conceive) desires for godlessness. So our own lust or craving, if not focused on God's will for our lives, such as keeping His commands, will devolve into sinful godlessness.

    Our Limited Spiritual Ability can be thwarted by godless living, such that we may end up as an example of Matthew 13's Soil #1, unable to respond to God's revelation. Thus even in our fallen state, our nature, at least initially, does not render us unable to seek God or fully trust in Christ. Otherwise, we would not be tempted, but compelled. Not how scripture reads...
     
  2. Alan Dale Gross

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2024
    Messages:
    48
    Likes Received:
    9
    Faith:
    Baptist
    The 1677/89 London Baptist Confession of Faith

    CHAP. IX.

    Of Free Will.


    1. God hath indued the Will of Man, with that natural liberty, and power of acting upon choice;
    that it is = Mat. 17.12. Jam. 1 14. Deut. 30.19; neither forced, nor by any necessity of nature determined to do good or evil.

    2. Man in his state of innocency, had freedom, and power, to will,
    and to do that = Eccl. 7.29; which was good, and well-pleasing to God;
    but yet = Gen. 3.6; was mutable, so that he might fall from it.

    3. Man by his fall into a state of sin hath wholly lost = Rom. 5.6. ch. 8.7; all ability of Will,
    to any spiritual good accompanying salvation; so as a natural man, being altogether averse from that good = Eph. 2.1.5;
    and dead in Sin, is not able, by his own strength, to = Tit. 3 3,4,5. Joh. 6.44; convert himself;
    or to prepare himself thereunto.

    4. When God converts a sinner, and translates him into the state of Grace = Col. 1.13. Joh. 8.36;
    he freeth him from his natural bondage under sin, and by his grace alone,

    enables him = Phil. 2.13; freely to will, and to do that which is spiritually good;
    yet so as that by reason of his = Rom. 7.15.18,19 21.23.; remaining corruptions he doth not perfectly
    nor only will that which is good; but doth also will that which is evil.

    5. The Will of Man is made = Eph. 4.13; perfectly, and immutably free to good alone, in the state of Glory only.

    Baptist Principles, Practices and Polity
    Their Soundness Vindicated by Their Natural
    Results and Logical Consequences
    By Rev. T. S. Dunaway, D. D., 1882


    I. As a natural and logical consequence of the principles, practices, and polity of the Baptists, they have been the friends and champions of religious-freedom or soul liberty for all peoples in all ages.

    Dr. Foote, the Presbyterian historian, very justly says,

    "Religious liberty is not the offspring of mere greatness of mind or of political sagacity.
    It was a child of principle, cradled in suffering and fed on tears."


    By religious liberty is meant something more than, indeed something entirely different
    from, religious toleration. Paine, in his "Rights of Man," says,

    "Toleration is not the opposite of intolerance, but it is the counterfeit of it. Both are despotisms. The one assumes to itself the right of withholding liberty of conscience,
    and the other of granting it."


    Toleration is mere permission, sufferance, and endurance, and implies the right to withhold or grant, to control or regulate. Soul liberty is not mere permission to enjoy religious opinions, doctrines, and worship, but it is the right of conscience responsible only to God, and beyond the control or regulation of any human being or government. For this reason, the true friends of religious freedom for all peoples, as an inalienable right, have always repudiated religious toleration, and fought against it as a usurpation and despotism, enslaving, while it professes liberation.

    That the Baptists have been the pioneers and peculiar champions of religious liberty is a fact admitted and established by historians of other denominations. Bancroft says (Vol. II, page 66),

    "Freedom of conscience, unlimited freedom of mind was,
    from the first, a trophy of the Baptists."


    "And John Locke, to whom Lord Chancellor King attributes the doctrine of religious liberty,
    says, in his "Essay on Toleration,"

    "The Baptists were the first
    and only propounders of absolute liberty,
    just and true liberty, equal and impartial liberty."


    "The first modern treatise ever written on the subject of religious liberty was by Leonard Busher, a Baptist, in 1614. It is entitled, "Religious Peace, or a Plea for Liberty of Conscience." It was no plea for mere toleration, but for liberty of conscience in matters of religion for every human being. Here are some of its words:

    "That it may be lawful for every person or persons, yea, Jews and Turks, Pagans and Papists, to write, dispute, confer and reason, print and publish, any matter touching any religion, either for or against whomsoever."


    "The Baptist "Confession of Faith," which was published in 1611 declared, "We believe the magistrate is not to meddle with religion or matters of conscience, nor compel men to this or
    that form of religion, because Christ is the king and law-giver of the Churches and the conscience."

    The first treatise written on this continent, claiming full religious freedom, was by Roger Williams, in 1644. Having been banished from Massachusetts, in the Spring of 1636, he founded the city of Providence, Rhode Island. Southey says:

    "This was the first commonwealth and civil government in the world
    that gave to all equal liberty of conscience."


    "And Bancroft says:

    "Roger Williams was the first in modern Christendom to assert,
    in its plenitude, the doctrine of liberty of conscience."


    He seized the first occasion offered, when Baptists could practice in this regard their principles, in giving to others soul liberty, while they claimed it for themselves. From the very first Rhode Island was free from all constraint of the religious conscience, and any man, with or without any religious belief, could come and remain in the colony without molestation for his religious views.

    "But if we turn our thoughts particularly to Virginia, we shall see what a noble work our Baptist Fathers did, in securing for that State and the whole country religious liberty...."

    see here;
     
    #2 Alan Dale Gross, Sep 12, 2024
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2024
    • Informative Informative x 1
  3. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    28,742
    Likes Received:
    1,136
    Faith:
    Baptist
    This claim (number 3 above) is almost wholly false.

    1) A lost person's "works of righteousness" are indeed "filthy rags" to God. Isaiah 64:6

    2) A lost person is not always adverse to "that good" of salvation. Matthew 13:18-23

    3) Lost persons are not able to convert themselves. Isaiah 64:6 and Romans 9:16

    4) Being dead in sin does not mean all spiritually dead are unable to receive, understand, and accept as true the gospel of Christ. Matthew 13:18-23

    5) Lost people are able to gain access to God's grace, and thereby to"prepare themselves" for reconciliation. Romans 5:2 and 2 Corinthians 5:20. ​

    And here is what the cited verses actually teach:

    1) Romans 5:6, Christ died for the ungodly, thus all lost people, not just those to be saved. 2 Peter 2:1

    2) Romans 8:7, if the mind of a lost person is set on fleshly desires, in that state it is not able to subject itself to the Law of God. This verse does not teach that a lost person is unable to set their mind some of the time on spiritual desires, such as taught by Matthew 13:18-23

    3) Ephesians 2:1-5 teaches even when we were "dead" in our sins, God made us alive. The passage does not mention the false claim that being dead means always adverse to God, whereas Matthew 13:18-23 teaches the lost are sometimes not adverse to God.

    4) Titus 3:3-5 teaches that while we were lost, enslaved and under the grip of sin, God saved us. Thus we did not save ourselves by seeking God and placing our faith in Christ. Romans 9:16. However, note that Romans 9:16 teaches that the lost can seek (will) and do things (run) thus not always adverse to receiving God's mercy. But, our seeking and willing does not save us, that is accomplished by God alone.

    5) John 6:44 teaches we must be "drawn" (attracted) by the lovingkindness of the gospel before we would choose to put our love and devotion toward Christ. We love Him because we became aware He first loved us. 1 John 4:19
     
Loading...