Existence of Satan

Bro.Jim...Praise God and Thank YOU for taking the time to post that...It blessed my heart.I struggle with so much in my personal life and suffer with many personal disappointments and failures...It blesses my soul when somebody takes the thoughtful time to present what God has said concerning the future and how God will lovingly deliver us from the pains and tears of this present time.It would be nice to meet and fellowship with you here in this life but just knowing that you and I can and will get to do that in the next life will be great.Thanks so much.

Your Brother in Christ,
Greg Perry

Strongs Concordance refers directly to satan 52 times and to the devil 63 times both by name.This could turn into quite a study especially if we were to look up the other names by which satan is referred to.

Originally posted by av1611jim:
God didn't create Satan/Lucifer just to defeat him and toss him in the lake of fire. NO. God created him for the same reason He created us. To rule this earth and to love God because God first loved him. But for Satan/Lucifer it wasn't enough. Nor is it enough for multitudes of men.

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Satan, his angels, and billions of people all pay quite a price tag for their Creator to have others who love HIm who do not pay that price.

What is the percentile of people who are born again, therefore not condemned? 20? 10? 5? 2? Even if it is as high as 20, would you (if you could) create 5 people to love you, but only one of them actually would do so, while the other 4, to varying degrees, will seek their own way and you will sentence them to eternal damnation?

As Jesus said of Judas, "far better for him if he had never been born." That is very true; but Judas did not create himself to do what he did-- the One who said that created him. And since all things are possible through Him, He could have done it some other way, but He chose to do this with a system that sends the vast majority of humans and other intelligent beings to eternal torment. Would that be your system, or if not, why are you not Christ-like?

Alcott;
You comprehension of what I posted is, (how shall I say it?)... weak.

Frankly, I really do not know what on earth you are getting at.

God created ALL things for His own pleasure. He also created both angelic beings and humans to be in positions of delegated authority. He also created these beings to receive His love, not so much that we should love Him. (We love Him because He first loved us)
I don't know what "system" you are getting at. "System", perhaps, is a poor choice of words on your part. God's "system" (as you put it) sends no one to hell, angelic or otherwise. Their own choices send them to hell. It is called rebellion. Can you say "rebellion"? I knew you could.

In HIS service;
Jim

Jim, your comprehension of this is (how shall I say it?)... stupid.

God's "system" (as you put it) sends no one to hell, angelic or otherwise. Their own choices send them to hell.

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"Without Him nothing was made that was made." Not good, not evil, not hell, not the propensity to do evil exist without HIM making them. If the vast majority of humandkind is destined for eternal damnation, it is because HE made it thus. And He did not have to make it thus, or else He is not all-powerful.

The question, again, is: Is this how you would create intelligent beings to love you? by also creating many more who would not love you and you that you would send to torment forever?

Alcott is dangerously calling Almighty God the author of Sin.

James 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
James 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.

God created man (and angels) with the capacity to choose to obey or disobey. From Adam on, all men have chosen to disobey, none are born without the sin nature of rebellion and all need to repent.

Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

Romans 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

Hell was made for the devil and his angels. Not for people:

Matthew 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

It does not give God pleasure to send people to hell:

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.


And another thing, the judgement of angels is different from the judgement of men. So we ought not lump the two together.

Originally posted by Alcott:
"Without Him nothing was made that was made." Not good, not evil, not hell, not the propensity to do evil exist without HIM making them.

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John 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

I think (and supported by most commentaries) this verse refers to the physical world.

And again, God is not the author of sin.

1 John 1:5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.

Hi Su!
Long time no "see".

To answer Alcott. No that is not the way I would do it. Nor is it the way God DID it!

How shall I say it..."ye do err not knowing the Scriptures". (Yes, I think that is the right way to say it.)

God made no one, angelic or otherwise with the propensity to do evil. Folks do that without God's help or design. Your error sir, is that you think God destined people to hell, when He did no such thing. People go there by choice.

Joh 3:19
And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
Joh 3:20
For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
Joh 3:21
But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

Can you say, "Rebellion? I didn't think so. To tough a word or something.

Evidently in your mind, God created rebellion.

In HIS service;
Jim

Originally posted by IveyLeaguer:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Bro. James Reed:

A question for those who believe Satan and other angels actually fell from heaven. If he did, then when we go there will we be subject to the same?

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No, Brother. 1Thessalonians 4:17 - "and so shall we ever be with the Lord." </font>[/QUOTE]Amen IvyLeaguer! I'm not going to fall from heaven.

And for bro. James, it is scriptural to believe to believe that Satan and one third of the angels of heaven rebelled against God and was cast to earth:

Revelation 12:2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.
Revelation 12:3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
Revelation 12:4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

Hi Bro. Jim... what you doing up at this unearthly hour??? hope you are keeping well and I echo Bro GregoryPerry's thanks for the scripture quotes.

I'm around, sort of. just not posting much.... but the stuff written in this thread made me want to contribute some.

I really think there's not much good preaching about Satan in churches now. I know there's a preacher on this board who thinks if you attribute bad things happening to you to Satan (on any level), you're with the looney camp.

Thank you sister. I will stand on my position that the meat of the Bible is rarely taught.
The entire theme of Scripture is God's plan to replace a rebel with man. That rebel is Satan. Then man rebelled. And you know "the rest of the story"!

The Bible is about government. God's government.

In HIS service;
Jim

God made no one, angelic or otherwise with the propensity to do evil.

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Then John 1:3 is wrong: "All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being."

If the propensity to do evil came into being, or "was made"-- and I think there should be little doubt of that-- it came into being through Him.

Another poster had said "all things" does not mean all things, but just the "physical world." Are you a biblical literalist, or not?

Alcott, read it in context. John 1:3 is about CREATION.

John 1:10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.

Remember, Scripture says satan was perfect in all his ways till iniquity was found in him. What was his first iniquity? I believe it was PRIDE AND UNHOLY AMBITION. He was proud of his power and beauty, forgetting it was GOD who'd bestowed them. He aspired to be like the Most High and sit on His throne. Ever since then, he has continually tried to PROVE GOD WRONG, as he tried with Job.

And, yes, God gave all of us, angel and man alike, the ability to MAKE CHOICES. However, he is much more strict with the angels than He is with us because the angels see Him directly every day, and are without excuse for rebelling against Him. Thus, the angels who sinned are confined in tartarus till judgment, with no chance for salvation as we have. Thus, we should thank Him every day for what He's done for us!

And I completely agree with the robots statement. If God had wanted robots, incapable of disobedience, He woulda made them. I believe He wants beings who love and obey Him of their own free will.

Why did God allow Satan to go on sinning and lead others to sin? Because His JUSTICE is perfect. Also, He has appointed a time for the age to end, and until then, He goes on creating people to serve Him if they will. When Satan is consigned to gehenna, every intelligent being in the universe will know why. Everyone who dies in sin & is consigned to gehenna will know exactly why. All will be rewarded or punished according to their actions prior to judgment time.