Featured Baptism of the Holy Spirit

I deny emphatically that speaking in tongues is the evidence of the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

The evidence of the baptism/filling (same thing) of the Holy Spirit is not tongues, but boldness for Christ.

Acts 4:31, "And when they had prayed, the place was shaken where they were assembled together; and they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and they spake the word of God with boldness." No tongues here.

I'll address the rest of your post tomorrow if I can. I have to teach now.

 

...ah, didn't bother me none...

...seems like it got JoJ worked up though...

 

Some passages of water baptism, simply called baptism are associated with believers receiving the Holy Spirit. And there are three views of the baptism of the Holy Spirit.
All three views agree the Baptism of the Holy Spirit took place on Pentecost.
Two of the views hold there are two different receivings of the Holy Spirit. The first for the salvation. And the second receiving beginning on Pentecost for power and the gifts of the Spirit. The Pentecostal view, the gift of tongues being the necessary evidence of the baptism of the Holy Spirit. The third.main view, Pentecost is the start of the receiving of the Holy Spirit, being the one baptism of the Holy Spirit.
I left out some details. But there are these three views of the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

 

The Pentecostals and some Baptist believe the initial receiving of the Holy Spirit the Comforter was given by Jesus in John 20:22, And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost: . . .

This was before Pentecost.

 

I know. But I do not hold that view. I am of the persuasion Holy Spirit the Comforter came at the baptism of the Holy Spirit on Pentecost. John 20:22 was Christ's command to receive the Holy Spirit, who was received on Pentecost.

I had held this view since 1968.

 

I do not believe that was the OP was about.

Correct but you are making the same kind of error for insinuating what serves as evidence of baptism with the Holy Ghost by exchanging tongues for boldness to preach the gospel.

Since you would contend that not every saved believer speaks in tongues you should apply that not every believer speaks boldly for Christ.

1 Corinthians 2:1And I, brethren, when I came to you, came not with excellency of speech or of wisdom, declaring unto you the testimony of God.

2 For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.

3 And I was with you in weakness, and in fear, and in much trembling.

4 And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:

5 That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.

So if someone were to look at Paul by his outward appearance, would you say he spoke the word of God with boldness with all that trembling?

And yet what did happen in Acts 4 31? These potential believers that got their salvation interrupted by Peter & John getting arrested, and then Peter & John finally released into their company, were impressed with Peter & John's boldness in preaching the gospel for why they had prayed that they would do the same.

Acts 4:23 And being let go, they went to their own company, and reported all that the chief priests and elders had said unto them.

24 And when they heard that, they lifted up their voice to God with one accord, and said, Lord, thou art God, which hast made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all that in them is:

25 Who by the mouth of thy servant David hast said, Why did the heathen rage, and the people imagine vain things?

26 The kings of the earth stood up, and the rulers were gathered together against the Lord, and against his Christ.

27 For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together,

28 For to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done.

29 And now, Lord, behold their threatenings: and grant unto thy servants, that with all boldness they may speak thy word,

30 By stretching forth thine hand to heal; and that signs and wonders may be done by the name of thy holy child Jesus.

31 And when they had prayed, the place was shaken where they were assembled together; and they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and they spake the word of God with boldness.

32 And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common.

33 And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all.

So these were new believers in Jesus Christ that got saved when praying that they too may preach the word of God with boldness. As you read on from verse 32, this new community of believers gave everything they had to the apostles for the apostles to distribute evenly among that new community of believers.

So they prayed for that at their salvation moment to boldly speak as Peter & John did & received that answer to prayer.

So that was a specific prayer request which you will note, not every saved believer had asked for at their born again of the Spirit moment throughout the Book of Acts. It was just in that event for why one should not be toting boldness to speak as evidence of the baptism with the holy Ghost or otherwise, they would doubt Paul having that baptism with the Holy Ghost.

No saved believer need to be concern that they do not have the Holy Spirit because they do not have the evidence of speaking in boldness the Good News of Jesus Christ.

Any believer that already has the Holy Spirit since salvation, can ask the Lord for that boldness to speak at any time without thinking they need to receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit in order to speak the gospel with boldness.

Just as tongues are not evidence of having received the baptism of the Holy Ghost.

John 15:1I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.

2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

As in teaching, you may see someone bear more fruit in the knowledge of Him by edification and even correction, and so teachers should lead by example since we never stop learning and growing in the knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ.

 

The KJV leads us right on the doctrine of baptism. Many teach that baptism is inside a person and therefore being filled with the Holy Spirit is to be baptized with the Holy Spirit. The words of scriptures do not support that interpretation. If someone is baptized into somthing, he is immersed in it, quite the opposite of having something immersered in you.

When the children of Israel were baptized of God in the Red Sea, they were in the waters of the sea but the sea was not in them. When Jesus was baptized at the river Jordan he was immersed in the water, the water was not immersed in him. When he endured his baptism of suffereing the sufferring was outward, not inward. At Pentecost the Holy Ghost was poured out upon Israel only at first and the metaphor for the Spirit is water because the properties of water in the physical is the same as being baptized by the Spirit in the spiritual realm. The water falls from heaven in the form of rain and gives life to the earth and without it nothing lives for long. It is free and abudant and it pools up and is preserved in lakes and streams etc. Because of this no one can hoard it up and sell it. It is always free for the drinking and God sends it from above.

It/He was poured out first on Israel and read Acts 11, which is 10 years later and is it/He was poured out on the gentiles and this cannot be denied. There is no passage that I know of in scripture that teaches baptism is in a man. The water baptism is associated with outward cleaning and repentance and is something that men must choose to do.

The modern teaching of the tongues movement comes from either ignorance of the scriptures and by simple men or it is men who know better and are out to deceive.

 

@Charlie24 & @kyredneck & @John of Japan & @JD731

I believe that was when His disciples were officially saved and when the church began.

No. That was when his disciples were saved as He gave that promise of the forever indwelling Holy Ghost was to be given by the father when Jesus was no longer present with them, but has ascended above to Heaven.

John 14:1Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.

2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

....6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

....16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you....

.....25 These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you.

26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

So His disciples were not to received the promise of that forever indwelling holy Ghost until He had ascended for why He told them to wait for that "power" for how and when they got officially saved at Pentecost.

 

@Charlie24 & @kyredneck & @John of Japan

That is an apostate view in becoming an adulterous generation which for the Pentecostal & Charismatic churches as far as their historical roots goes for their denomination, both began at Azusa Street Revival of 1906-1909 where the emphasis was on that baptism with the Holy Ghost with evidence of tongues. But Jesus condemned that as an apostate calling.

Matthew 12: 38 Then certain of the scribes and of the Pharisees answered, saying, Master, we would see a sign from thee.

39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:

40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

That is why that tongue is not coming with interpretation as it is just gibberish nonsense as found in the occult and Roman idolatry in the days of Christ.

Isaiah 8:19 And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead?

So that is why there are no 2 receiving of the Holy Spirit in the life of that saved believer.

What the disciples had received in Matthew 10th chapter which included Judas Iscariot, was a temporary infilling.

Matthew 10:1And when he had called unto him his twelve disciples, he gave them power against unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease.

2 Now the names of the twelve apostles are these; The first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother;

3 Philip, and Bartholomew; Thomas, and Matthew the publican; James the son of Alphaeus, and Lebbaeus, whose surname was Thaddaeus;

4 Simon the Canaanite, and Judas Iscariot, who also betrayed him.

5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:

6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.....

.....18 And ye shall be brought before governors and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them and the Gentiles.

19 But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak.

Notice how Jesus said at the beginning of Matthew that those 12 received power and this same power is the temporary infilling of the Holy Spirit that speak in them.

Jesus did this same temporary infilling of the Holy Spirt after His resurrection to His disciples except for Thomas whom was not there when He had done that and of course, Judas Iscariot whom was dead and thus lost.

At Azusa street Revival, other manifestations had occurred there as well which explains the split of the Charismatics from the Pentecostal as there were manifestations of holy laughter movement, being slain in the spirit, being drunk in the spirit, having visions with revelations, with the appearance of healings, and casting out of devils.

That is what they get for not preaching Jesus Christ & Him crucified but invited all believers to look for that baptism with the Holy Ghost with evidence of tongues.... to wit... is how those other manifestations were happening.

Matthew 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: 14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

They broaden the way by giving a different invitation for how they were to be saved .. by that baptism with the Holy Ghost with evidence of tongues.

15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. 16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

Notice how there is such a thing as a Charismatic Catholic Church? Yet with all that manifestations and speaking in tongues, the Holy Spirit never bothered to reprove them to leave Catholicism? Hence gathering figs of thistles and grapes of thorns as it was never about Jesus Christ and Hi crucified but that movement of the "spirit" as in the movement of that phenomenon..

17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. 19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. 20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

Those who gain tongues for private use will condemn holy laughter as not of God along with slain in the spirit and being drunk in the spirit, but that is the same tree by how they got that tongue which is just gibberish nonsense for why they had assumed it was for private use when it is not God's gift of tongues at all nor was that the Holy Spirit falling on them.

Regardless of the claims of healings and casting our of devils and prophesying by visions, they are workers of iniquity.

21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

So do believers heed His words that Jesus is the only way to God the Father by or do they ignore His words and heed a different calling for salvation by seeking that baptism with the Holy Ghost with evidence of tongues and wind up losing self control and falling as they do in these movements of the "spirit"?.

24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:

25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.

26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:

27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

Those who promote that baptism with the Holy Ghost with evidence of tongues may refuse that other calling to receive the Holy Spirit by other sensational signs in the flesh, but they seek & invoke that "Holy Spirit" to come again and that spirit of the antichrist does come with their visitations of signs and lying wonders and so tongue for private use speakers cannot reprove them when they got tongues for private use in the same manner. They also have to repent with the Lord's help to shun that tongue to ray normally if they expect other believers to stop chasing after receiving the Holy Spirit again and again and again, even if they just label it as a "filling of the Holy Spirit", it is still giving out an apostate calling.

2 Corinthians 11: 2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.

3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

2 Corinthians 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

Hebrews 11:1Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. 2 For by it the elders obtained a good report.

Galatians 3:14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith...... 26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

The consequence is tongues for private users & the spirit chasers are risking being left behind at the pre great tribulation rapture event.

Revelations 2:18 And unto the angel of the church in Thyatira write; These things saith the Son of God, who hath his eyes like unto a flame of fire, and his feet are like fine brass;

19 I know thy works, and charity, and service, and faith, and thy patience, and thy works; and the last to be more than the first.

20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.

21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.

22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.

23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.

24 But unto you I say, and unto the rest in Thyatira, as many as have not this doctrine, and which have not known the depths of Satan, as they speak; I will put upon you none other burden.

25 But that which ye have already hold fast till I come.

 

@Charlie24 & @kyredneck & @John of Japan & @JD731

Note to JD731 be sure to read post #16 before this post #17. Could not add a tag to your name to that post as it was exceeding word limit.

Well, hopefully, this Baptist forum is holding to that third main view but as for the other views, they should not show any partiality in order to keep the faith which is the good fight.

Ephesians 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;

5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

 

Which of the three views do you mean?

 

What view do you regard to be that third main view?

 

And

You had posted this: "The third main view, Pentecost is the start of the receiving of the Holy Spirit, being the one baptism of the Holy Spirit." ~~ end of quote

I take that as you meaning when believers had started receiving the promise of the forever indwelling Holy Ghost at their born again of the Spirit moment of salvation when Jesus was no longer present with them for when eternal life is received as by faith in Jesus Christ.