Featured Baptism of the Holy Spirit

Rather than pin it to one of the 'five points', consider it a 'basic tenet' [of Monergism].

Does Regeneration (Monergism) Precede Salvation, as Calvinism Supposes? (2020scripturalvision.com)

Does regeneration necessarily precede conversion? - 9Marks : 9Marks

Calvinism holds to regeneration before conversion

 

Well, that is Christ leading you to be gentle then and I am glad to see Him at work in you. Sometimes emptions do get in the way of serving Him.

2 Timothy 2:24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, 25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

However, you are wrong about Christians being in apostasy as if that means they were never saved. This is about what is built on that foundation and if any work of the flesh ( and that includes heresy per Titus 1:16 ) which does deny Him, He will deny them BUT even after denying a former believer that gets left behind at the pre great tribulation rapture event, He still abides in that former believer.

2 Timothy 2:10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.

11 It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him:

12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

That is why former believers and not just unrepentant saved believers in works of iniquity are to be called to depart from iniquity or else be denied by Him to die left behind, but their spirits will be with the Lord in Heaven to wait for their resurrection after the great tribulation to become vessels unto dishonor in His House, the vessels of wood and earth.

To go to Jesus for help daily to resists sin and to discern & depart from iniquity, be it religious ones or supernatural ones that deny the faith in Jesus Christ, or just plain sowing to the works of the flesh without resisting sin with His help, is what running that race is all about in following Him as His disciples. To be received by the Bridegroom as that vessel unto honor in His House by hoping in Him to have them ready by discerning & departing from iniquity so they too may obtain that eternal glory of being that vessel unto honor in His House, the vessels of gold and silver, that "eternal glory" comes with them in Christ Jesus.

2 Timothy 2:18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some. 19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity. 20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour. 21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

to be continued....

 

Charles Ryrie does not get to define, let alone limit what apostasy is.

Titus 1:16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

Apostasy or works of iniquity can range from not resisting sin with His help daily like drunkenness, fornication, masturbation, lasciviousness or just plain lusting, to engaging in religious works that deny Him like Catholicism or the commitment to follow Christ to gain the assurance of salvation or believing Christ's Presence is in the bread and the wine thus committing idolatry per 1 Corinthians 10:14-23 or supernatural phenomenon that departs from the faith in Jesus Christ like the that baptism with the Holy Ghost with evidence of tongues when preaching the gospel of Jesus Christ is how we are saved, as some will take that same phenomenon and preach "another" baptism of the Holy Ghost with evidence of tongues for saved believers to seek after and when they do, that phenomenon does happen which leads to discernment for that initial calling given to potential believers for seeking after as a sign that they are saved.

Just as you used boldness to speak for Christ as evidence or proof of salvation of having received that baptism with the Holy Ghost. You may have unwittingly just committed the same apostate calling for believers to seek a sign or evidence of the Holy Ghost, but it is just as same as that apostate calling for seeking tongues as sign or proof that they had received the Holy Ghost. When I know you would disagree with that "calling" as if all believers will speak in tongues as evidence of having received the Holy Ghost, then you have to do the same with using boldness to speak for Christ as evidence for having the Holy Ghost when our believing in Jesus Christ is a manifested work of God for why no sign nor proof is needed.

Faith is a fruit of the Spirit per Galatians 5:22-23 and faith is received by the hearing of the word Romans 10:17 just as those who hear the word, had received the Holy Spirit in Acts 10:43-44. That is what John 3:18-21 means as verse 21 is testifying that our believing in Jesus Christ is a manifested work of God when no man can come to the Son unless the Father draws him per John 6:44 as it is on the father to reveal His Son so we can believe in Him & be saved Matthew 11:25-27.

Other supernatural phenomenon like the holy laughter movement, slain in the spirit, being drunk in the spirit, and other movements of the spirit where confusion reigns where believers lose self control & fall backwards or whatever, which God is not the author of. 1 Corinthians 14:32-33. They too, promote the phenomenon as a continual filling of the Spirit while some will call it the continual sanctification process of the Holy Spirit, but it is a rudiment in the world of receiving spirits by how they see it happen but Jesus said the world receives not the Holy Spirit because they seeth Him not nor knoweth Him but we will know Him by Him dwelling in us per John 14:17. That means no matter that they prayed to the Holy Spirit to come and fall on them or invoke for Him to come for that preferred supernatural phenomenon of confusion, it is the spirit of the antichrist that is visiting with signs and lying wonders, seducing spirits that deceive believers to chasing after them to receive for a sign 2 Corinthians 11:2-4 when in according to our faith, Jesus Christ is in us and with us always 2 Corinthians 13:5 & Matthew 28:20

The real indwelling Holy Spirit is sent to testify of the Son thru us John 15:26-27 in order to glorify the Son John 16::13-14 whereas the spirit of the antichrist ( antichrist means "instead of the Christ" or to be precise "instead of the Son". ) will take our eyes off of the Son, the Lord Jesus Christ as if He is not the only way in coming to God the Father by in worship, prayer, and fellowship, but He is because Jesus said so plainly in John 14:6 and yet many are not heeding His words..

I believe you are born again but I also believe you are led astray. You may believe apostasy means you were never saved but hopefully, I have shown scriptures for why He still abides in former believer even after He has denied them at the rapture in leaving them behind and so this is about what you unwittingly built on that foundation as a supernatural work that denies Him.

By believing you can receive a continual filling of the Spirit, it is akin to being out to the market place seeking to be filled with extra oil which is that work of iniquity whereas those ready, know they are always filled and were received by the Bridegroom in that parable of the ten virgins which ARE the kingdom of heaven but the 5 that were foolish, were left behind from the wedding reception, even though they were still of that kingdom of Heaven when left behind in Matthew 25:1-13 ..

When a Christian fall away from the faith, it does not mean they were never saved and that is why Jesus Christ is faithful Good Shepherd that He will get that lost sheep that was left behind as He will finish His work in them to His glory.

John 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

Saved believers can be excommunicated from the Marriage Supper for being workers of iniquity but still in that kingdom of Heaven but as the least in the kingdom of Heaven per Matthew 5:19 same as being that vessel unto dishonor in His House. That is how they can be cast out from the wedding reception but not cast out of the kingdom of Heaven.

John 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

That is why those former believers and unrepentant saints that are workers of iniquity that gets left behind are still saved but although they missed out on being partakers of the firstfruit of the resurrection like the prodigal son that gave up his first inheritance for wild living and can never get it back, but he is still son as those resurrected after the great tribulation shall reign with Christ as kings and priests which is akin to the prodigal son being given a robe and a ring.

I can only hope in the Lord Jesus Christ that He is peradventuring to recover you from that heresy which is a work of iniquity.

You are still my brother , even if you get left behind at the pre great tribulation rapture event, but I hope in him, He will deliver you from all works of iniquity that you need to be delivered from in being ready as well as being willing to go.

 

Then why did you claim I just called you an apostate from that post when I was speaking against such things and yet you claimed I had judged you for it?

You put the shoe on yourself because you were identifying with that apostasy that I was speaking against.

 

37818 had posted "In short, being born again is the baptism of the Holy Spirit."

I had posted "Right and so His believing disciples were finally born again of the Spirit at Pentecost when Jesus was no longer present with them."

From which you had replied....

I am not sure how you see born again of the Spirit and the event that took place at Pentecost as not being born from above when I say it is.

 

I see. So you are the one who gets to define apostasy.

The word "apostasy" occurs nowhere in the KJV. The Greek word from which we get the term is apostasia (ἀποστασία). The Friberg, Friberg and Miler Greek lexicon that I use most defines it: "a falling away, defection, apostasy; in the Bible namely, from the true religion." So yes, apostasy means someone is not saved.

The Greek word occurs only twice in the NT, once translated as "forsake" and the other as "falling away." I have not forsaken my faith, and I have not fallen away from it. So if you insist on calling me an apostate, you are lying.

Ac 21:21 And they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise [their] children, neither to walk after the customs.
2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for [that day shall not come], except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

So your definition of apostasy is not biblical. It exists nowhere in the Bible

I oppose the Charismatic movement with all of my heart. I oppose tongues and all of the other Charismatic doctrines. they are unbiblical. For you to intimate that is what I believe without asking me is disingenuous. STOP MISREPRESENTIING WHAT I BELIEVE.

Now you are flat out lying about me. I did not say and never would say that believers should seek a "sign or evidence of the Holy Ghost." I dare you and defy you to show me where I did. I simply quoted Acts 4:31--"31 And when they had prayed, the place was shaken where they were assembled together; and they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and they spake the word of God with boldnes." The Bible is as plain as the nose on your face. If someone is filled with the Holy Spirit they will speak the word of God with boldness. That is not a sign, but a result, and it is exactly what the Bible says.

 

The Baptism of the Holy Ghost was historically in two phases separated by 10 years and 9 chapters in the book of Acts. The first phase is the baptism of Israel, the people of God, This baptism would include Samaria which represented the northern kingdom of Israel that had been dispersed from her land for 700 years at this time. Jesus had fulfilled all the requirements of God, a perfect substitute, so he might take away the sin of his people. This would permit God to transition from the OT principle of the Mosaic Law as his operative principle of divine dealing with them which they were all, every one, subjected to by virtue of their birth into the family of Jacob, a family who was under a legal covenant with God. This law was a perfect guideline but it was a temporary addendum to the Abrahamic covenant for the purpose of discipline in the family but it was powerless to produce righteousness because it was dependent on the flesh and the will on the people, and of course every one of them failed and was condemned by it. But that was the goal God had for the law. It was to bring this people to Christ so they would be ready and willing to receive his righteousness as a gift and on his merits have all their sins washed away and no longer able to condemn them. They were sinners before Mt Sanai but not because of the Mosaic Law. See Ga 3.

So, God transitioned from the principle of law in dealing with his people to another principle that was to fulfill several covenant promises but particularly the New Covenant wherein he promised Israel everlasting life. The constitution for the kingdom with it's new principles of divine dealing going forward was given in Matthew 5,6,and 7, the sermon on the mount. This kingdom would require inward power from God that they did not have. They would need the Spirit of Christ who was his righteousness. Every thing Jesus ever did or said as a man was by the power that he had in his mortal body. He was the only man ever born or will be born of a woman with the Spirit of God indwelling him. That is the reason he is called the only begotten son of God. He is not the only son of God, he is the only begotten son of God. John the Baptist said in John 3 that God gave not the Spirit by measure unto him. There was not a time except when he was on the cross that he was not filled with the Spirit. Today, saved men are commanded to be filled with the Spirit but because of the weakness of the flesh we cannot constantly be filled with the Spirit as was our Lord Jesus.

So, the operative principle of divine dealing for Jacob during this transition time of the apostolic age was "promise." God had promised in the OT prophets that he would send his Spirit to indwell Israel but how he would do that was not revealed. Jesus began speaking to his disciples and comforting them on crucifixion eve, which is our Thursday .and he told them he would be departing physically but he would send his Spirit and that he would be with them and in them and would never forsake them (see John 14-17). This is the promise he instructed them to wait in Jerusalem to receive collectively as he ascended to heaven in Acts 1. These disciples had already received the Spirit into their bodies in John 20 on the day of the resurrection when Jesus breathed into them the Spirit, save Thomas, but they had not been filled with him.

Now, two things here; first.

The baptism of the Holy Ghost in Acts 2 upon Israel was an answer of prayer of Jesus to his Father in John 17; Here is a portion of his prayer.

Joh 17:17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
Speaking of the disciples who had ministered with him the whole time;

18 As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.
19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.

20 ¶ Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

24 ¶ Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.
25 O righteous Father, the world hath not known thee: but I have known thee, and these have known that thou hast sent me.
26 And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them.

Jesus had told them that he must leave or the Spirit would not come. Now we know why this is true.

Secondly,
Just as every one of them was a son of Jacob, and by extension, Abraham and Isaac, by being born into the family, this new covenant was also a transition into a new family, the family of God, as sons of God, through a birth, one at a time. The problem the Jews had that caused them to reject Christ is they thought that being a son of Abraham made them a son of God. Paul would address that later in Rom 9 with these words.

Ro 9:6 ¶ Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

Paul goes on to explain it is the second birth that makes one a son of God, no matter about your first birth.

The transition cannot be realized until every one of this people Israel are born into the family of God by the Spirit indwelling them. The Spirit is the life of God.

Now Israel at Pentecost is asked to receive the Spirit as the promise. Peter refers back to OT scripture promises in his sermon.

14 ¶ But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words:
15 For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day.
16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;
17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams (this is ALL flesh. it is a baptism, of all Israel, not just believers - Israel is immersed in the Spirit by this act of God)
18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:

Why is this important? It is because that God is calling upon all Israel to receive the Spirit and be born again collectively as they were born physically. See this instruction for Israel by Peter in Acts 2:38. The operative part of this verse for our conversation here is EVERY ONE OF YOU! Read it.

38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

So, just because the Spirit was poured out in abundance upon all Israel does not mean the Spirit was in them. He must be receive by each and every one of them. And because their identification with Jesus Christ must be public, no one will receive him unless they are baptized in water. I distinction was made between those who were with him and those who were against him. A period of seven years would be the time period for these apostles to preach to EVERY CREATURE in Judah, and we are plainly told that. The national response is in Acts 7 at the temple.

Mark:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

The sign gifts which they exercised with their ministry would confirm the messenger and his message was from God.

17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

God is much more serious about our testimony for him than we are many times. He said if the men of Israel would not confess him before men then he would not confess them before God. He did not say that to gentiles. Water baptism is a public profession and the confession would occur before the new birth.

Contued

 

Continued

Now consider what Peter said to this nation; I hope you will read the first 12 verses in this chapter that I am not quoting here.

12 And when Peter saw it, he answered unto the people, Ye men of Israel, why marvel ye at this? or why look ye so earnestly on us, as though by our own power or holiness we had made this man to walk?
13 The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go.

14 But ye denied the Holy One and the Just, and desired a murderer to be granted unto you;
15 And killed the Prince of life, whom God hath raised from the dead; whereof we are witnesses.
16 And his name through faith in his name hath made this man strong, whom ye see and know: yea, the faith which is by him hath given him this perfect soundness in the presence of you all.

17 And now, brethren, I wot that through ignorance ye did it, as did also your rulers.
18 But those things, which God before had shewed by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled.

19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord.
20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

22 For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.
23 And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.

[NOTE; God meant this and there were more than a million killed, I am told, in Jerusalem by Titus the Roman General in 70 AD and the remainder dispersed and God's place of his presence, the temple, destroyed even to this day]

24 Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days.
25 Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers (the Abrahamic Covenant), saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.
26 Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.

Jerusalem turned out to be the super hard ground of the parable of Matt 13 where the seed was eaten by the foul birds.

Only believers of Israel were born again by recieving the Spirit inside themselves but the baptism was over all the nation in such abundance that they could simply drink him in.

Next, we will need to talk about the baptism of the gentile world at a specific time in history because until then there was not a single gentile born again because the "door of faith" had not yet been opened to them.

 

This is a word salad. I don't even know what you are saying here. If you think I identified with some kind of apostasy, what did I say? Quote me and prove it.

 

Which those 3 links can easily be refuted by scripture.

Titus 3:4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,

5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;

And yet Charlie24 had replied

Are you disagreeing with Titus 3:4-6 and 2 Thessalonians 2:13-15 and if so, how are you applying those words to mean?

2 Thessalonians 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

By the way; Calvin supported & arranged for the execution of a heretic and yet nowhere in the bible does it tach that but to excommunicate or withdraw from their company.

John 16:1These things have I spoken unto you, that ye should not be offended. 2 They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service. 3 And these things will they do unto you, because they have not known the Father, nor me.

Unless Calvin had confessed his sin and repented before Calvin had died, that may be a work of iniquity that had denied Him that will have Him deny him at the rapture event and wind up being resurrected after the great tribulation instead.

Just because someone preaches nine truths, it does not mean he van never err or teach something that is not what He would have us teach thus a lie. We are to prove all things with the Lord Jesus Christ.

And that is why in these debates of Calvinism vs Arminianism, we should be representing jesus Christ in being His disciples rather than identify as a Calvinist or an Arminian .

1 Corinthians 3; 3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?

4 For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?

5 Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man?

6 I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.

7 So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.

 

'Whosoever comes', God has already wrought within. It's WHY they come, WHY they're willing. John 3:21; Psalms 110:3

Lol, IMO, 99% of those holding to Sovereign Grace started out as 'free willers'.

Sounds more complicated than it actually is.

Lol, I won't sleep over eight hours tonight worrying about that.

 

@ChristB4Us, I've not time or patience to deal with your condition. Let others do it. On ignore you go.

 

You did ask "I have not yet seen you define apostasy. What do you think it is, ..." from that post at this link What Identifies A Christian As A Baptist?

No. It does not mean anyone in apostasy is not saved. It means they are not abiding in Him & His words to be ready to be received by Him.

We have this prophesy;

1 Timothy 4:1Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; 2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

Paul speaks about it again as happening in droves in the latter days...but did mention that the work of iniquity was already present in his day.

2 Thessalonians 2:1Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first,....

.....7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

.....9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

So what is that lie that God will allow that strong delusion to occur? That believers can receive the Holy Spirit again or by a sign apart from salvation. That is why Paul is speaking against even the continual filling of the Holy Spirit below because we are always filled with the spirit since salvation at the calling of the gospel for when we had first believed.

2 Thessalonians 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth: 14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. 15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

Paul goes on to in 2 Thessalonians 3:1-7 to address those that have fallen away from the faith and yet in giving this commandment from the Lord to withdraw from them that walk disorderly and not after the traditions taught of us, we are to withdraw to admonish them as brothers still because they are still saved per 2 Thessalonians 3;14-15.

Now I know you will point to 2 Thessalonians 2:12 as if meaning they were never saved as they will be damned, but you are forgetting two truths.

The Lord will lose nothing of all the Father has given Him per John 6:39 and so how can there be a damnation? For the same reason that there are vessels unto dishonor in His House that did not look to Jesus Christ for help to depart from all iniquity. If the vessels unto honor are the ones that did depart from iniquity, then the vessels unto dishonor that are still in His house, the vessels of wood and earth, did NOT depart from iniquity for why they are "damned" as vessels unto dishonor in His House.

2 Timothy 2:18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some. 19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity. 20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour. 21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

If you are not seeing the troth yet.... consider the scriptures below for how God will judge every believer by what he or she built on that foundation as there is a consequence for defiling the temple of God which is physical death of his or her body,

1 Corinthians 3:10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon. 11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; 13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. 14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. 16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? 17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

1 Corinthians 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? 20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

So what you build on that foundation, any work of heresy that denies Him, He will deny them Titus 1:16, and yet in that day of fire, those left behind, Jesus will burn off of that foundation all that offends but that foundation remains as that seal of adoption does too and although the result is physical death per verses 16-17, the believer is still saved per verse 15 as their spirits will be with the Lord in heaven waiting for their resurrection after the great tribulation.

You declare that you speak against Charismatics and I believe you but I do believe that you are speaking things that is how they speak in regards to the Holy Spirit.

The late David Wilkerson had that trouble as he could not figure out why those Pentecostals and Charismatics were coming to his services, but only because he spoke the way they do as he had testified to feeling the Holy Spirit come into the worship place and feeling His presence in the worship place and even pray for the Holy Spirit to come. That is what the Charismatics and Pentecostals do when invoking the Holy Spirit for those signs and lying wonders that David Wilkerson disagrees with.

So how we speak and the words we use matters.

Baptism of the Holy Spirit

You posted and I quote "The evidence of the baptism/filling (same thing) of the Holy Spirit is not tongues, but boldness for Christ.

Acts 4:31, "And when they had prayed, the place was shaken where they were assembled together; and they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and they spake the word of God with boldness." No tongues here. ~~ end of quote

You had testified in this thread that speaking boldly is evidence of the baptism of the Holy Ghost in the same format as those Pentecostals and Charismatics do with speaking in tongues is evidence of the baptism with the Holy Ghost. Both is wrong. You may not have meant it in that way but then again you were speaking against the OP insinuating that tongues was evidence of the baptism of the Holy Ghost. as if tongues is a sign or proof for believers to seek after for having received that baptism of the Holy Ghost and yet you switched it to speaking boldly as evidence of having received that baptism with the Holy Ghost. If tongues does not serve believers as a sign or proof that they had received the baptism with the Holy Ghost, then you cannot use that same format as speaking boldly is evidence of having received the baptism with the Holy Ghost. See?

Since tongues do not serve as a sign of having received the baptism with the holy Ghost, then speaking boldly cannot serve as a sign or evidence of having received the baptism of the Holy Ghost. Some believers may speak with the real God's gift of tongues to speak unto the people 1 Corinthians 21 and not that gibberish nonsense gained by that apostate calling, just as some may speak the word of God with boldness but neither is evidence or s sign or proof of having received the Holy Ghost when neither serves for that purpose.

 

"Sign" and "evidence" are two entirely different things. You've been saying that I believe there are signs of the baptism and/or filling of the Spirit. Stop saying that. It's not true.

If someone claims to be filled with the Spirit but never witnesses for Christ or gives out a tract or goes on soul-winning visitation for their church, they are definitely not filled with the Spirit and not walking with God.

Years ago a dear lady named Dotty had spinal bifida, and could not leave her home very much. Nevertheless, she wrote a tract with the title "Handicapped and Happy," and gave it to everyone who came to her door. She also gave just $10 a month, a true "widow's mite," for us to reach Japanese for Christ. That woman was filled with the Spirit and walked with God. Now she is in Heaven, cured from her illness.

 

@John of Japan Tagging you as I contend with this Baptist member laying the groundwork that Pentecostals & Charismatics can work off of by his words.

You are setting the groundwork for that phenomenon to occur and thereby engaging in that apostasy of seeking to receive the continual filling of the Holy Spirit which is after the rudiment in the world for how they receive spirts by seeing it happen.

Matthew 12:38 Then certain of the scribes and of the Pharisees answered, saying, Master, we would see a sign from thee.

39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:

40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

So I contend with you on that comment of yours that we are not leaky vessels that needs a continual filling of the Holy Spirit.

Matthew 9:17 Neither do men put new wine into old bottles: else the bottles break, and the wine runneth out, and the bottles perish: but they put new wine into new bottles, and both are preserved.

2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

1 Corinthians 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? 20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

That is why Jesus said for all who come to & believe in him, that they will never hunger nor thirst to be filled ever again.

Matthew 5:6 Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.

John 6:35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.

Ephesians 5:18 is an exhortation to remain sober as be filled with the Holy Spirit.

Ephesians 5:18 And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit; KJV

Granted, some Bible versions may change the meaning of that verse but it runs contrary to scriptures and Paul's warning below.

2 Corinthians 11:2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ. 3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. 4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.
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2 Corinthians 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

To take Ephesians 5:18 as a command for believers to seek a continual filling of the Holy Spirit is to ignore the warning form Paul in 2 Corinthians 11:4 and deny the faith in Jesus Christ as Him being in us per 2 Corinthians 13:5.

That erroneous command to seek a continual filling of the Holy Spirit which is an apostate calling is denying we are complete in Christ.

Colossians 2:5 For though I be absent in the flesh, yet am I with you in the spirit, joying and beholding your order, and the stedfastness of your faith in Christ. 6 As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him: 7 Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving. 8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. 9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. 10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:

It certainly does not abstain from the appearance of evil by continually seeking spirits to receive like the world does.

1 Thessalonians 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. 22 Abstain from all appearance of evil. 23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. 24 Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it.

How full are we? Scriptures testifies below.

Ephesians 1:17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him: 18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints, 19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power, 20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places, 21 Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come: 22 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church, 23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.

That is why Jesus is saying once we have the Holy Spirit, we will not ask the Father again for the Holy Spirit or else that would make the Father look evil as if He did not give the Holy Spirit the first time for knocking at the door of Jesus Christ.

Luke 11:9 And I say unto you, Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you. 10 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened. 11 If a son shall ask bread of any of you that is a father, will he give him a stone? or if he ask a fish, will he for a fish give him a serpent? 12 Or if he shall ask an egg, will he offer him a scorpion? 13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?

So believers need to be aware of how Pentecostals and Charismatics and Jesuits underlings will try to slip that erroneous commandment of Ephesians 5:18 to seek to be filled with the Spirit under the radar into the Baptist churches when it is just an exhortation to remain sober as be filled with the Spirit.

So if you continue to misapply Ephesians 5:28 as being that erroneous commandment to seek a filling of the Spirit, you go against all the scriptures shared in this post for why Ephesians 5:18 is just an exhortation to be sober as in remain filled with the Spirit.

I know this is a war against principalities and dark forces in the heavenly realm but I rely on Jesus Christ to enable those who hear His voice to see the truth in His words to depart from evil of those who misapply His words for apostasy to happen.