Featured Unconditional Salvation

Ge 18:25 That be far from thee to do after this manner, to slay the righteous with the wicked: and that the righteous should be as the wicked, that be far from thee: Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?

You greatly err charlie24, and your thinking is wrong on this. Salvation is a New Testament doctrine because there is much more to salvation than justification. All men whose faith in the judge and what he said to them in the OT were justified and their faith was imputed to them for righteousness. None of those men had been cleared of their sins but a justified man cannot be charged with sin. Consider this;

Ex 34:5 And the LORD descended in the cloud, and stood with him there, and proclaimed the name of the LORD.
6 And the LORD passed by before him, and proclaimed, The LORD, The LORD God, merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abundant in goodness and truth,
7 Keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, and that will by no means clear the guilty; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children’s children, unto the third and to the fourth generation.

Please read context of all my quotes.

If sins could have been cleared in the OT times then Christ Jesus would not have had to die and OT believers would have gone to heaven in the presence of God and not to paradise in the center of the earth until the blood of Christ washed their sins away..

Heb 9:22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.
Heb 10:18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.

So, what about the sins of the OT saints who had been justified by faith?
Two verses;

Ro 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
Heb 9:15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

God the Father is the one who has been offended by sin. God the Son is the one who has provided the means to take away the offence on sin by taking it's wages on himself for sinners before his sacrifice was made, and after it was made. The Judge is satisfied with his sacrifice and has promised the world that he will give eternal life as a GIFT to anyone who will come to him by faith in what he says and what Jesus Christ has done for them. You cannot believe in Jesus Christ and what he has done for you and not believe what the Father has said .he will do for you. Leave either of these off and it is not salvation. Following is the trinitarian working of salvation from Romans 8 if you understand the Spirit of God indwelling the believer is both the Life of God and the gift of God. Read these wonderful verses with me;

Ro 8:32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?

Here it is:

Ro 8:33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God’s elect? It is God that justifieth.
The elect in this verse are not Calvinists, unless they are saved Calvinists.

Ro 8:34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
Do you think God the Father will hear an intercessory prayer from Jesus Christ on mine or your behalf?

9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

Consider Lot. Nothing bad said of him because he was justified in the OT:

2Pe 2:6 And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;
7 And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked:
8 (For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds)
9 The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:

This verse will help show the whole picture and the condition;

24 But for us also, to whom it (righteousness - another title for the Spirit) shall be imputed, if we believe on him (God the Father) that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;

I hope this makes sense to you.

 

Ro 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

The free gift is given unconditionally to the world on the basis of the sacrifice of Christ by God the Father but there is a condition for sinners to receive him.

The gift of God is eternal life - Ro 6:23
Eternal life is the Spirit of God and of Christ - Ro - 8:10-11

The condition is individual faith in Christ - John 3:36

How does one meet the condition to receive the gift? Do we know? are we told? The answer is yes.

Ga 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
Everyone should answer that question.

Ga 3:5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
Is Paul not trying to make the case that the Spirit, who is the gift of life from God the Father because of the cross work of Jesus Christ, is received by individual faith?

Here it is!

Ga 3:14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

The only reason a man will argue that salvation, the indwelling Spirit of God in a man, is unconditional, is because he does not know what salvation is. Verse 14 cannot be misunderstood by logical and reasonable men A man must have faith in Christ before he will receive the Spirit. It is God the Father who promised to give him on that condition.

Ga 3:22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

The promise is the Spirit.

Ga 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

Trusting in what Jesus Christ did for us on the cross and then rising from the dead is the condition of our salvation. So says the scriptures.

I am not your enemy Charlie24 for telling you the truth.

 

It's literally 'born from above', as in born from Jerusalem above, the mother us all. And yes, every saint that ever was, OT & NT, has been 'born from above'.

Christ wasn't implementing something new in John 3:8, He was revealing a mystery of old.

 

Charlie, I once believed similar to the way you do, until I was reading my Bible and ran across what the Lord had Peter write ...

" Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
to an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. " ( 1 Peter 1:3-5 )

God keeps us by His power.
Through faith.

Also,
Christ will lose none of the ones that were given to Him by His Father:

" All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. " ( John 6:37-39 ).

 

I do agree with you that He does not force anyone to believe on Him.
However, the Lord does a lot of things that are against our individual and respective wills, Charlie.
For example:

" But Abimelech had not come near her: and he said, Lord, wilt thou slay also a righteous nation?
Said he not unto me, She [is] my sister? and she, even she herself said, He [is] my brother: in the integrity of my heart and innocency of my hands have I done this.
And God said unto him in a dream, Yea, I know that thou didst this in the integrity of thy heart; for I also withheld thee from sinning against me: therefore suffered I thee not to touch her. " ( Genesis 20:4-6 ).

God prevented Abimelech from sinning against Him.


As another example, think about this:

Did the Lord ask Mary to be the bearer of Jesus Christ, His only begotten Son?
Read the account in Luke 1, and ask yourself if Gabriel told her what would come to pass and what would happen to her, or if he asked her for permission before the Lord made it happen.


Please let me know what you find, my friend, and may God bless you in your studies.

 

Just a question for you KY?

When do you know that you have done enough good works to earn your salvation? And what is the ratio of faith to works that saves you?

 

Charlie,
Since salvation is not of works, lest any man should boast ( Ephesians 2:9 ) and is a gift ( Romans 6:23 ) and not a reward that can be earned, then I understand that those "conditions" are necessary and accompanying evidences of someone's salvation.
In other words, God alone saves, and the objects ( that's us ) of His salvation respond to His work in us and for us.

If a person had to meet "conditions" first in order to satisfy a requirement from God, then that would be earning it as a reward, would it not?
Here on earth, works earn rewards, while gifts are not earned...gifts are freely given and freely accepted.
So it is with eternal life.

After 46+ years in the Lord,
I can find no place in the Scriptures where mankind ever earned anything from Him eternally ( except for His wrath ).... other then temporal or "earthly" favor through the keeping of the Law;
and even under that covenant, Israel, as a whole, failed miserably.


My friend,
Salvation is not earned, and God does not set before mankind a choice.
He saves whom He will, and judges whom He will.



That said, I take my leave of your thread.
I wish you well in your studies, and May God bless you...

Both in this life and in the life to come.

 

You’re being dishonest again. I quoted scripture that clearly states that justification is NOT by faith alone. I said nothing about earning salvation.

 

U,I,P equal OSAS.

 

Asking you a question is not being dishonest. Your trying to include works as a requirement is.

This following exchange by you in post #29 brought about the questions which you still did not answer by the way.

Charlie24 said: ↑
all of us are justified by faith alone

your response KY
Spoken just like a Calvinist would. Never mind that nowhere in the Bible does it say that. In fact, the Bible says that justification is NOT by faith alone.

24 Ye see that by works a man is justified, and not only by faith. Ja 2


So if one is not justified by faith alone but by works then you must think works are required to be save

 

I think you are right. Most Baptists are Arminian on the front end of being saved, believing that God's word and the work of the Holy Spirit are necessary but resistible and available to everyone that hears the gospel message. And election is in reference to one's response to the gospel. But the OSAS is from Calvinism and is on purpose to differentiate from general or free will Baptists. That's why most Baptists don't mind being called Calvinists in a general sense and mainly understand that as referring to OSAS.

 

Also. OSAS can mean that you remain saved no matter what you do, even lapsing into unbelief. But it can also mean that with the help of the Holy Spirit you will persevere and live out a Christian life. In other words a Christian life is required, but inevitable for one truly saved. So it might look different. In other words, the Reformed might say you are saved from apostacy, while a pure OSAS free grace Baptist would say you would remained saved in spite of apostacy.

Disagreement with eternal security can mean different things also. It can mean that if certain additional works or sacraments are not done you will not be saved and justification is not a sure thing until judgment day. It can mean that doing certain serious sins can disqualify you and put you in a lost condition. Or it can mean that sin can be repented of and confessed, and only willful and deliberate falling away or apostacy will result in a loss of salvation, (and this with the understanding that such a scenario may be hypothetical).