Featured Are the Lost Allowed to Seek God?

On and on the naysayer posts the same old nonsense and cannot see how ridiculous he is making himself.

Of course not indeed. Many people whose hearts are closed to God are very much alive to drink, sex, football or whatever. But if God opens someone's heart to heed the Gospel, it pre-supposes that his heart was closed before. QED.

No. The verse teaches that salvation is by grace, the unmerited favour of God. That it is through faith is also true, but the grace comes first, and whether it is the salvation, the grace or the faith, it is 'not of works, lest anyone should boast.'

A pure and simple non sequitur. And the 'if credited as righteousness by God' is a fabrication of Van's mind. 'Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved' (Acts of the Apostles 16:31). There is no mention of a subsequent test to run a righteousness meter over the poor fellow's faith. 'Abraham believed God and it was credited to him as righteousness.' There is no suggestion that God ran a slide rule over Abraham's faith either. If people believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, although they have no righteousness of their own, God credits, or imputes their faith as righteousness, even if that faith is as small as a mustard seed.

 

You have said it several times but just to be sure we are on the same track, your saying that unless God opens their heart a person cannot believe in God unto salvation. Have I got that right?

 

I don’t believe God and satan want the same thing, that is, for people to be lost.

That is satan’s desire.

The Son of God came to save the lost. Some are unwilling to be saved, by their own choice.

 

The last time in the gospel accounts the word lost is found is in John 18:9. The next time it is found in the scriptures, the only time, the last time, is in 2 Cor 4:3 where the context is the Jews. The word does not appear again. This is not a doctrinal word to describe the unsaved as far as God is concerned if doctrines are determined by words.

Someone mentioned Lydia.

Concerning Lydia in the city of Philippi in Europe, we are not told she was saved. We are told she was baptized but baptism is not salvation. She is from Thyatira, a city in the province of Asia. Luke said God opened her heart but he doesn't tell us what that means. There were no Jewish synagogues in Philippi and Lydia was with a bunch of women at the river on the sabbath praying. If this is a salvation then an Asian woman was the first convert recorded in the West, in Europe. Lydia is connected in the story with the color purple and as a merchant.

It is interesting that immediately after this incident with Lydia we are told about a demoniac woman who followed Paul and his entourage calling out that he was a servant of the most high God. Well, take a look at these two paragraphs side by side.

6 ¶ Now when they had gone throughout Phrygia and the region of Galatia, and were forbidden of the Holy Ghost to preach the word in Asia,
7 After they were come to Mysia, they assayed to go into Bithynia: but the Spirit suffered them not.
8 And they passing by Mysia came down to Troas.
9 And a vision appeared to Paul in the night; There stood a man of Macedonia, and prayed him, saying, Come over into Macedonia, and help us.
10 And after he had seen the vision, immediately we endeavoured to go into Macedonia, assuredly gathering that the Lord had called us for to preach the gospel unto them.
11 Therefore loosing from Troas, we came with a straight course to Samothracia, and the next day to Neapolis;
12 And from thence to Philippi, which is the chief city of that part of Macedonia, and a colony: and we were in that city abiding certain days.
13 And on the sabbath we went out of the city by a river side, where prayer was wont to be made; and we sat down, and spake unto the women which resorted thither.
14 And a certain woman named Lydia, a seller of purple, of the city of Thyatira, which worshipped God, heard us: whose heart the Lord opened, that she attended unto the things which were spoken of Paul.
15 And when she was baptized, and her household, she besought us, saying, If ye have judged me to be faithful to the Lord, come into my house, and abide there. And she constrained us.

16 ¶ And it came to pass, as we went to prayer, a certain damsel possessed with a spirit of divination met us, which brought her masters much gain by soothsaying:
17 The same followed Paul and us, and cried, saying, These men are the servants of the most high God, which shew unto us the way of salvation.
18 And this did she many days. But Paul, being grieved, turned and said to the spirit, I command thee in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her. And he came out the same hour.
19 And when her masters saw that the hope of their gains was gone, they caught Paul and Silas, and drew them into the marketplace unto the rulers,
20 And brought them to the magistrates, saying, These men, being Jews, do exceedingly trouble our city,
21 And teach customs, which are not lawful for us to receive, neither to observe, being Romans.
22 And the multitude rose up together against them: and the magistrates rent off their clothes, and commanded to beat them.
23 And when they had laid many stripes upon them, they cast them into prison, charging the jailor to keep them safely:
24 Who, having received such a charge, thrust them into the inner prison, and made their feet fast in the stocks.

Many years later in 94 AD the revelator mentioned this church in the city of Thyatira in the context of a woman teacher. This is the 4th church mentioned that was in the province of Asia.

18 ¶ And unto the angel of the church in Thyatira write; These things saith the Son of God, who hath his eyes like unto a flame of fire, and his feet are like fine brass;
19 I know thy works, and charity, and service, and faith, and thy patience, and thy works; and the last [to be] more than the first.
20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.
21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.
22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.
23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.
24 But unto you I say, and unto the rest in Thyatira, as many as have not this doctrine, and which have not known the depths of Satan, as they speak; I will put upon you none other burden.
25 But that which ye have already hold fast till I come.
26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:
27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.
28 And I will give him the morning star.
29 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

There is a woman during the great tribulation who is associated with purple. Look at it.

1 ¶ And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters:
2 With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.
3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.
4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:
5 And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.
6 And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.

7 ¶ And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns.
8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.
10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.
11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.
12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.
13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.

14 ¶ These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him [are] called, and chosen, and faithful.
15 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.
16 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.
17 For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.
18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

Now I am not teaching that Lydia is this certain woman or that she prophetically represents this false religion that rules over the kings but one does wonder why God chose to include her in the narrative. I just don't know. But I always like to ask the text questions and many times the text answers me.

Here is part of Paul's testimony concerning his calling.

16 But rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee;
17 Delivering thee from the people, and from the Gentiles, unto whom now I send thee,
18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.

It is the eyes that must be opened it seems for salvation to occur.

These words causes one to think.

 

Interesting that Paul was struck blind and then his eyes were opened.

 

Van, this is not what the Scripture teaches, I'm sorry!

The "narrow door" is through the blood of Christ, it's the only way. those who seek to enter and are not able are those who try to come a different way than Christ, mainly works or merit.

Paul told us that none seek after God. Christ told us "that no man can come unto Him except My Father draw him."

That drawing is through the Spirit of God, The Holy Spirit, that Christ said would convict the world of sin and of righteousness when He came.

This is the reason Paul said, "we preach Christ crucified." It's the preaching of the Gospel that enables the Holy Spirit to convict of sin and draw in the unbeliever.

 

Acts 17:27 is Paul's sermon at Mars Hill, Athens, to pagans.

He is preaching the Unknown God that they have inscriptions of and Paul telling them who this Unknown God is.

As Paul is telling them who He is, he tells them to "seek the Lord," the Unknown God to them.

It's after the fact of Paul's preaching that he tells them to "seek the Lord."

The draw has already begun, and he had some converts that day.

 

How could they seek after Him until someone (in this case Paul) told them who He was?

Paull was telling them, now that you know who He is, seek after Him.

The Holy Spirit was already at work from Paul's sermon, drawing them.

Remember what Paul said in Romans 10:13-15?

"For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!"

 

It sure sounded that way to me when in post #51 you said,

"Therefore the idea that none will ever seek God is obviously false doctrine"

 

I think you are asking the wrong question here. It should not be, does God allow? It should be, who will seek? The answer is that nobody seeks God on their own. Romans 3:10-11.