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Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Van, Oct 21, 2024.

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  1. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Here it is again, verbatim.

    People can think they are saved, yet the Lord will say I never knew you. The issue is not whether a saved person has been sealed in Christ with the Holy Spirit, the issue is a person can believe that he or she has been indwelt, even a lost person.
    Professing believers are to examine ourselves at communion to see if we are "of the faith." That is where we obtain our "blessed assurance, Jesus is mine."

    Did I even address whether a saved person knows God? Nope, thus addressing what I did not say.
    Did I address whether a saved person can know they are saved? Yes, thus denying what I said.
     
    #41 Van, Oct 23, 2024
  2. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    You add to faith several things that are required for “access” to God’s grace.

    But you are correct, there is no reason to discuss this with you

    peace to you
     
    #42 canadyjd, Oct 23, 2024
  3. JD731

    JD731 Well-Known Member

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    Van, I think contention comes when you ask questions of Baptists that do not need to be asked because just identifying with Baptist distinctives answers the question. Asking this question, for instance, makes one wonder if you are a Baptist or if you know what Baptists have historically believed and taught.

    Then, when I read your reasoning and opining I immediately know you have never read the memos of Baptist fellowships where questions like this were settled centuries ago. The answer divides us from other people who holds different views than us.

    This might be a good thread in the Seventh Day Adventist section. They believe ones must decide to keep the Law of Moses to be saved. They need this info.
     
    #43 JD731, Oct 23, 2024
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  4. MrW

    MrW Well-Known Member

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    People can think they are saved, yet the Lord will say I never knew you. The issue is not whether a saved person has been sealed in Christ with the Holy Spirit, the issue is a person can believe that he or she has been indwelt, even a lost person.


    That part is true, Matthew 7:21-23.
     
    #44 MrW, Oct 23, 2024
  5. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    I added nothing, that is your tradition. God decides on whom He will have compassion, God decides whose faith He will credit as righteousness, and God decides who He will save.
     
    #45 Van, Oct 24, 2024
  6. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    Yes, if God is evaluating what someone does before He chooses them for salvation, that is a works based system, no matter if you can see it or not.

    peace to you
     
    #46 canadyjd, Oct 27, 2024
  7. MrW

    MrW Well-Known Member

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    I believe God foreknew who, given opportunity, would believe on Christ, and who would not.

    Their works were not the factor, but whether they would receive or reject Christ.

    That fits with John 1:12-13.
     
    #47 MrW, Oct 28, 2024
  8. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    If God looks through time and sees who will believe, and then based on that information He “choses” them for salvation, that is a works based system.

    God foreknew all humanity, as scripture states, would reject Him, being unable to come to Him because of their sin nature unless He intervenes in their lives… and He chose some for salvation according to His purpose, from the beginning, and then intervenes by His power to bring them into this right relationship….

    That is Grace

    FTR, your view that it is based on whether they accept or reject Christ does not fit with John 1:12-13. That passage says we became children of God by the will of God and specifically not by the will of man.

    peace to you
     
    #48 canadyjd, Oct 28, 2024
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2024
  9. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    What if "foreknew" means God formulated a predetermined plan for people to be chosen based on crediting their faith as righteousness during their physical lifetime? If people were individually chosen for salvation before creation, that would mean they never were not "a people" chosen for His own possession. They would have obtained mercy and never had not received mercy. This conflicts with 1 Peter 2:9-10, so that understanding of "foreknew" as used in scripture is bogus.
     
    #49 Van, Oct 29, 2024
  10. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    That is not what “foreknew” means. In the case of Romans, it means to know in a relationship, not knowing something about someone.

    peace to you
     
    #50 canadyjd, Oct 29, 2024
  11. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    LOL, you have no idea what the word means. You just post "taint so" over and over offering no knowledge based on specific scripture.
     
    #51 Van, Oct 29, 2024
  12. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    LOL… ROTFL…. Slap my knee and howl at the moon!!!!

    Your proven and continuously demonstrated lack of understanding biblical Greek makes you wholly unsuitable to give anyone advice on understanding any Greek word, much less the context in which they are used.

    peace to you
     
    #52 canadyjd, Oct 29, 2024
  13. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Note this post proves the poster cannot address the issue, and so attacks my qualifications.

    What if "foreknew" means God formulated a predetermined plan for people to be chosen based on crediting their faith as righteousness during their physical lifetime? If people were individually chosen for salvation before creation, that would mean they never were not "a people" chosen for His own possession. They would have obtained mercy and never had not received mercy. This conflicts with 1 Peter 2:9-10, so that understanding of "foreknew" as used in scripture is bogus.​

    ​
     
    #53 Van, Oct 30, 2024
  14. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    Notice the poster inserts his own misunderstanding of the word “foreknew” to replace 2000 years of Christian biblical scholarship because it fits his unbiblical, man made philosophy.

    Continuous Nonsense

    peace to you
     
    #54 canadyjd, Nov 3, 2024
  15. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    What if "foreknew" means God formulated a predetermined plan for people to be chosen based on crediting their faith as righteousness during their physical lifetime? If people were individually chosen for salvation before creation, that would mean they never were not "a people" chosen for His own possession. They would have obtained mercy and never had not received mercy. This conflicts with 1 Peter 2:9-10, so that understanding of "foreknew" as used in scripture is bogus.

    What does "foreknowledge" mean? Does it mean having knowledge acquired or formulated in the past being used in the present, or does it mean knowledge of the future.

    If anyone actually studies how the word translated foreknowledge is utilized, the usage always indicates knowledge gained in the past being used in the present.

    The Greek verb transliterated "proginōskō" (G4267) appears 5 times in the NT and the Greek noun "prognōsis" (G4268) appears 2 times in the NT.

    In Acts of the Apostles 2:23 the noun would best be translated as "...predetermined plan and prior knowledge of God...." This refers to God's redemption plan formulated before the world began.

    In 1 Peter 1:2 the noun would best be translated as "... chosen according to the prior knowledge of God..." This refers to God's knowledge of His redemption plan, formulated beforehand, that He would credit faith of some as righteousness.

    If we look at the five verb usages, we find the same thing, to know something beforehand.

    In Acts of the Apostles 26:5 the verb would best be translated as "...they know me and knew me beforehand, ...."

    In Romans 8:29, the verb would best be translated as "...For those whom God had planned to redeem according to His redemption plan, He also predestined...."

    In Romans 11:2, the verb would best be translated as "...whom He knew beforehand...."

    In 1 Peter 1:20, the verb would best be translated as "....He (Christ) was known beforehand, before the foundation of the world...."

    In 2 Peter 3:17, the verb would best be translated as "...knowing this beforehand, be on guard...."
     
    #55 Van, Nov 4, 2024
  16. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    Reposting the same error over and over will not make it true

    peace to you
     
    #56 canadyjd, Nov 4, 2024
  17. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    What if "foreknew" means God formulated a predetermined plan for people to be chosen based on crediting their faith as righteousness during their physical lifetime? If people were individually chosen for salvation before creation, that would mean they never were not "a people" chosen for His own possession. They would have obtained mercy and never had not received mercy. This conflicts with 1 Peter 2:9-10, so that understanding of "foreknew" as used in scripture is bogus.

    What does "foreknowledge" mean? Does it mean having knowledge acquired or formulated in the past being used in the present, or does it mean knowledge of the future.

    If anyone actually studies how the word translated foreknowledge is utilized, the usage always indicates knowledge gained in the past being used in the present.

    The Greek verb transliterated "proginōskō" (G4267) appears 5 times in the NT and the Greek noun "prognōsis" (G4268) appears 2 times in the NT.

    In Acts of the Apostles 2:23 the noun would best be translated as "...predetermined plan and prior knowledge of God...." This refers to God's redemption plan formulated before the world began.

    In 1 Peter 1:2 the noun would best be translated as "... chosen according to the prior knowledge of God..." This refers to God's knowledge of His redemption plan, formulated beforehand, that He would credit faith of some as righteousness.

    If we look at the five verb usages, we find the same thing, to know something beforehand.

    In Acts of the Apostles 26:5 the verb would best be translated as "...they know me and knew me beforehand, ...."

    In Romans 8:29, the verb would best be translated as "...For those whom God had planned to redeem according to His redemption plan, He also predestined...."

    In Romans 11:2, the verb would best be translated as "...whom He knew beforehand...."

    In 1 Peter 1:20, the verb would best be translated as "....He (Christ) was known beforehand, before the foundation of the world...."

    In 2 Peter 3:17, the verb would best be translated as "...knowing this beforehand, be on guard....
     
    #57 Van, Nov 4, 2024
  18. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    Reposting the same error over and over won’t make it true

    peace to you
     
    #58 canadyjd, Nov 4, 2024
  19. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Posting taint so over and over will not nullify God's sovereignty.
     
    #59 Van, Nov 6, 2024
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