Cocaine addict for church membership!!??

Originally posted by El_Guero:
Gold,

In Denominational life, we have church discipline. We also believe that a Church is a local Body of Believers (Baptist).

A Body has reason to protect itself from members if they have a condition that can be injurious to the others.

A Body can also choose to allow itself injury from a member ... Hence, this thread.

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I'm confused how withholding membership would improve the safefy of existing members. Wouldn't he still be in attendance of that church whether he is a member or not?

Originally posted by Glory Bound:
I'll agree that none of us are without sin. But to admit someone who obviously is still actively sinning in such a dangerous manner is making a mockery of church membership. In like manner would your church admit two openly practicing homosexuals for membership?

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Jesus came to heal the sick and the sinner. He ate with prostitutes, drunks and tax collectors. Did he tell them to fix all their sins before they could eat with him? Of course he did not condone or encourage their sinful behaviour.

A better analogy is would your church admit openly repentant homosexuals for membership who still struggles with homosexual thoughts and may falter down the road? Yes I would. Just like I would admit greedy repentent men and women who still struggle with greed. And I would admit lazy men and women who still struggle with laziness.

I think what is actually the question is whether or not they see this man as being truly repentent and wanting off of the drugs.

I would find him the "in-patient" help that he needs and work with them and the patient to provide him support. You will find out real quick if he is serious about trying to be drug free and accepting the Lord.

Let the doctor's protect his physical body from the effects of the addiction and use new methods of making it easier to tolerate; but let the church provide the spiritual support.

Most "in-patient" facilities (especially those operated by the state, which will probably be the only free ones) have no problems with spiritual support from outside (at least the ones I have dealt with). In fact, most appreciate it because they know that person needs spiritual support ragardless of whether it is Christian or otherwise. That's why they use the "higher power" business in their 12 step programs. I have yet to find a facility that will not allow the church to provide that support.

In the case of homosexuals....if they are truly repentent, then by all means, we accept them.

On the other hand, who we would NOT accept would be someone coming to the church and saying I'm a homosexual and I don't intend to change my lifestyle, but I plan on going to church here.

THIS is where the line is drawn. I think most everybody here probably believes this way.

Originally posted by Phillip:
I think what is actually the question is whether or not they see this man as being truly repentent and wanting off of the drugs.

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I would agree that discernment is required to determine whether he truly is repentent or not. I think self admitance into a rehab program of any type would be pretty evident of a repentant heart. I cannot comment on which types of programs are better and which ones are worse.

But there is only so much we can know about someone's heart. At some point, we need to take their word on it.

Another thing to keep in mind is that recovery from an addiction like cocaine is a long and grueling process. A person can be completely repentant and wanting to quit and still lapse. That is when a stern but loving hand from the representatives of Christ is needed most. Not excommunication.

I don't know how willing this man is willing to travel but there is a wonderful, biblical ranch for men with addictions. They have a very high success rate. It is not rehab.

We have 2 men in our church that has gone here for their addiction and one has been clean and serving Christ for over a year now, and the other since 2002.

Here is the link to their site: http://www.eagleranchministries.org/

As far as what to do about membership, I have no advice. Sorry.

Although Christ says to come as you are, we cannot and should not allow membership to those activly engaging in open sin.

There is a great program being used successfully by many churches. It is a Christian addictions program called Reformers Unanimous. You can get information by contacting North Love Baptist Church in Chicago Il. Attn: Steve Currington.

That with any medical intervention should help him to overcome this sin and become a productive member of your church.

2 Corinthians 6:17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean [thing]; and I will receive you,

My advice would be to tell the young man that he is destroying the temple of God by using the cocaine. Show him 1 Corinthians 6:19, 20.

The church should always be there to help, but I would advise against the allowance to join. Paul told the church in 1 Corinthians 5 to put out from among them that wicked one. This was a man who was named among them as a brother of the church. Share the Word with the young man. Show him that those that love the things of the world are at enmity with God as James 4 tells us. Ask him to give that habit over to the Lord. Encourage him to come to you any time he feels the temptation and that you will help him through prayer and encouragement.

Many churches today are failing miserably because they bring sin in the camp.

Originally posted by csmith:
He voluntarily informed me that he is a cocaine addict, desparately trying to quit--hoping that the church and I could assist him with this. I asked him the last time he used the drug and he said last week.

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This is a real toughie. He's acknowleged the problem and has states his intent to overcome it.

If this were my decision to make, I'd probably permit him to join, based on the fact that he's working on overcoming his sins, and presuming that he's not coming to church on Sunday while under the influence. I'd then make sure he gets involved with a local Narcanon or Narcotics Anonymous group.

But I could certainly understand if you'd rather wait to admit him. As I said, this is a real toughie.

Originally posted by csmith:
A young man has been coming to church faithfully for over two months. He came to me last week and wanted to talk to me about joining the church. After going through his salvation and baptismal testimonies, I inquired further into his life and his past. He voluntarily informed me that he is a cocaine addict, desparately trying to quit--hoping that the church and I could assist him with this. I asked him the last time he used the drug and he said last week.

This is a new one to me. Any suggestions on how to advise the church of this situation? Things I have to think about: Biblical precept and precedent--His confidentiality--love of Christ--protection of church members--legal issues.

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He is screaming for help!!!

My opinion is that all of us sin. If we are perfect then we are the sacrifice for sin. If that man admits his addiction what a great opportunity to join with jim in prayer, help and acceptance in the journey to recovery. I would not let him slide one bit on getting help. He probably needs people around him who will encourage him a lot. They need to come expecting him to quit and do whatever it takes to help him get through this time. He does not need the acceptance of a drug dealer.

Originally posted by Johnv:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by csmith:
He voluntarily informed me that he is a cocaine addict, desparately trying to quit--hoping that the church and I could assist him with this. I asked him the last time he used the drug and he said last week.

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This is a real toughie. He's acknowleged the problem and has states his intent to overcome it.

If this were my decision to make, I'd probably permit him to join, based on the fact that he's working on overcoming his sins, and presuming that he's not coming to church on Sunday while under the influence. I'd then make sure he gets involved with a local Narcanon or Narcotics Anonymous group.

But I could certainly understand if you'd rather wait to admit him. As I said, this is a real toughie. </font>[/QUOTE]Please, John, do NOT get them involved in Narcanon. Narcanon is NOT what they are cracked up to be. Narcanon is a branch of Scientology. We have one just north of us where they took over a state park. Narcanon will detox a person without using ANY medications whatsoever....very dangerous and very painful. Narcanon also employees a lot of shady people in the form of private investigators who will do anything they need to protect their owners, including break every law on the books.

If you would like more information regarding their real activities, let me know and I'll e-mail it to you privately.

As for church membership. ABSOLUTELY, that person needs help and THEY WILL relapse. That is when they need their loving church family--not to punish them, but to love them. This does not mean to accept the behavior. The person must understand that it will not be tolerated, but like good parents, they are ALWAYS welcome at home.

Remember, once an addict, always an addict....just like alcoholics. This is why we should keep our children away from trying drugs. Very bad stuff, indeed.

Originally posted by Phillip:
Narcanon is NOT what they are cracked up to be.

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Did you really say this? It just sounds funny

The last post that Soulman made pointed to a very good program.....Reformers Unanimous now has a men's home open that this young man can go to get detoxed.

BTW, North Love is not in Chicago, its in Rockford, IL. Just wanted to be sure we get the right info from the right place.

Is this man saved? Has he joined the church? It sounds like he is still in bondage to this addiction. There is a way out--that way is Jesus Christ!!

But when Jesus heard that, he said unto them, They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick. But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance. (Matthew 9:12-13)

Phillip said:
"Remember, once an addict, always an addict....just like alcoholics." Not true, Phillip. By saying this, you keep people in bondage to addiction. This is NOT a disease we are talking about--it is SIN. Jesus came to set us free. He is able to deliver us completely. My late husband killed himself with beverage alcohol because he would not accept the fact that Jesus Christ would set him free from his bondage to beverage alcohol--it was very sad. The world does not have the answers to addiction. Jesus Christ is the only answer.

Apparently this young man goes to church--so prayerfully he has heard the gospel. The first step to heaven is knowing you're lost--the highway to glory is the way of the cross.

Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. (2 Corinthians 5:17)

Originally posted by Linda64:


Phillip said:
"Remember, once an addict, always an addict....just like alcoholics." Not true, Phillip. By saying this, you keep people in bondage to addiction. This is NOT a disease we are talking about--it is SIN. Jesus came to set us free. He is able to deliver us completely. My late husband killed himself with beverage alcohol because he would not accept the fact that Jesus Christ would set him free from his bondage to beverage alcohol--it was very sad. The world does not have the answers to addiction. Jesus Christ is the only answer.

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Yes, you are correct that it is Sin and Jesus is the only answer. The problem is, addictive behavior, just like a lot of other things that lead to sin may be inherent in the person. Jesus can clean that person, but once they have tried the drugs, they will be addicted to it for life. In other words, if they fall off the wagon they will have to go through the entire detox program again. Even a Christian Psychiatrist knows this.

Let me ask you a question. If a convicted child molester came to your church and you know in your heart he had repented and turned his life over to Jesus---would you allow him to babysit your ten year old daughter for a week, unsupervised?

Has anyone noticed that the OP and subsequent posts are from February? And that this thread was just reopened yesterday? I'd be interested to know what actually happened rather than debating "options."

The answer is simple, have him go to Detox, when he's clean, let him come back... most of the time, addicts wanna get with a Church, to make themselves look good to the Cops. seen it a millions of times...

MH

Originally posted by MatthewHenry:
The answer is simple, have him go to Detox, when he's clean, let him come back... most of the time, addicts wanna get with a Church, to make themselves look good to the Cops. seen it a millions of times...

MH

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AMEN! Finally, someone that understands.

Originally posted by Phillip:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by MatthewHenry:
The answer is simple, have him go to Detox, when he's clean, let him come back... most of the time, addicts wanna get with a Church, to make themselves look good to the Cops. seen it a millions of times...

MH

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AMEN! Finally, someone that understands. </font>[/QUOTE]Yessir, Jailhouse Religion is very common in these parts.