Ian Paisley

I wonder how many Free Presbyterians in Belfast vote for any party other than DUP.

Be an interesting poll if we could find out the truth.

 

Probably much like John the Baptist's testimony wasn't too "highly reckoned" amongst the religious crowd for his speaking out against the politicians of his day either: "Herod! It is unlawful for thee to have thy brother Philip's wife!!!" (but then, the liberal crowd speaks up, "You don't have any compassion, do you John, YOU LEGALIST!!"

 

Why not, especially if the man carries the same characteristics known politicians seem to daunt? And it just may be true?

 

I do preach against MOST politicians, and even the more against politics in the House of God.

Though Brother Paisley is Calvinist, I commend his stand against the wiles of the devil and wouldn't speak against him for exposing the fallacies associated with the politics there in Ireland, which it seems many want to only express their political leanings in an effort against the man, when he is our Brother in Christ, and willing to speak out when others turn-tail and hide amongst the tress.

 

I didn't realise you were an expert on Irish politics Bro Ralph. What do you think of DUP as opposed to UUP? Which party would you support in the North? Do you find DUP's policies in the North closer to the ideals is Finna Fail or Finna Gael in the Republic?

What do you think about Sinn Feinn as opposed to SDLP? Which of these parties would you support DUP going into government with?

Could you fill us in on the reasons for Bro Paisley's association with terrorists groups in the 70's?

 

I have three specific areas of disagreement with Paisley and they are so strong that, while I consider him a Christian, I do not care to associate with him. First, he is a 5-point Calvinist who seems to take the doctrine(s) to an extreme (and perhaps logical) conclusion. Second, he does not hold to the separation of church an state. As I understand it, he thinks the two should be one. As a baptist, I disagree. Third, when I was in bible college in the mid-eightees, he and Bob Jones, Jr. uttered imprecatory prayers in public. They publicly asked God to kill the Pope. I think that is an ungodly and un-Christian thing to do. Another thing I don't particularly care for, and this is purely personal preference, is his practice of yelling at the top of his lungs when he preaches. This is the 21st century. We have sound systems. Yelling is unnecessary and, to the modern audience, it is not an effective communication tecnique.

 

</font>[/QUOTE]Dr Paisley takes this a step farther. He is attempting to be a pastor and the leader of the largest political party in the North (as of the last elections, representing about 27% of the population.) In so doing he has a built in voting block with the Free Presbyterian Church, assuring him and his party a good number of votes in each election.

 

The problem with Paisley is that after hearing him speak for about any subject for a minute or 2, (the weather, the minimum wage, the Book of Maleachi) one get's the very strong impression that he's a habitual hater.
If one listens some more, it becomes more and more difficult to shake the feeling that he hates not just the RCC as an institution, but that it goes much farther. He gives the impression of being a sort of variant anti-semite. Except instead of hating people who practice Judaism he hates Catholics and instead of hating people of Jewish ancestry he hates people of traditional Irish ancestry.

Paisley has a lot less blood on his hands than Adams, but untill he shapes up or goes away he's a bad influence as well.

 

Paisley is not in the same category as Spugeon (couldn't hold a candle to Spurgeon, IMHO). While Spurgeon was a calvinist he recognized the danger of over-emphasizing the doctrine(s) as he was quite critical of his predecessor John Gill for over-emphasizing it. Also, Spurgeon was not guilty of blurrring the line between church and state and certainly did not advocate merging the two. And, to my knowledge, Spurgeon did not pray imprecatory prayers in public.

The Puritans? Yes they did blur the lines between church and state and their disappearance from history is quite related to that fact. Be instructed!

The Psalmist? His imprecatory prayers were private prayers before God.

Bottom line: Spurgeon, the Puritans, and the Psalmist are all dead. We have the benefit of learning from the exemplary things they did and we can learn from their mistakes. Paisley is still alive. His errors are public and definable, and they should be avoided now while he is alive. After he dies if, upon reflection, I can think of something exemplary in his ministry I'll get back to you.

 

I've been here ten years - his goals are political. I have no doubts about that.

BTW, I don't think ANYONE is an expert on Irish or Northern Irish politics .

 

It is not wrong to have political aims. All you Americans who oppose "gay marriage" have political aims by definition. Politics usually deals with issues that have a morally right/wrong dimension. Please bear in mind that Northern Ireland is a province where the majority of the population want to remain part of Britain (incidently the only time it was ever unified with the south was when Britain ruled the whole lot!)

Is it wrong to work in any position of responsibility?

Is it wrong to use your responsiblity for godly ends?

Is it unchristian to stand up for the right of the Northern Irish people to live in their own country?

Is it immoral to publicly oppose and work against and vote against homosexual "civil partnerships"?

Is it hateful to publicly oppose and work against and vote against homosexual couples being given the right to adopt children as a couple?

Is it wrong to publicly oppose and work against the work of terrorists, murderers and robbers?

Iain Pasiley has done all these and many other good things. If something is right then we should stand up for it, irrespective of whether the world will hate us or not for it. C4K quoted something that I agree shouldn't have been said, though this seems very much to be a mote that we are trying to pluck out when we have beams in our owm eyes. I used to know a man who went to school with brother Iain. He told me that there will be hundreds in heaven because of the testimony of Iain Paisley. He speaks out for what is right. Are we doing so...?

 

P.S. Rgarding the belief of separation of church and state: this is a red herring. As has already been pointed out, Iain's church is NOT the state church, nor does it have anything to do with it. If you disagree with him about his view on church and state then this is a purely theoretical disagreement since it has no practical outworking. Unless, of course, by "separation of church and state" you mean that you don't think state should oppose immorality and promote what is right and good for society.

 

None of those things are necessarily wrong, of course.

My problem is his mixture of church and state, his having a built in voter support group because of his position, his harsh attitude towards those with whom he disagrees, and for me his extreme hyper-calvinis.

I know personally of a case where a Baptist pastor was trying to witness to a man who never wasked the Lord to save him. The man's family was in Dr Paisley church and Dr Paisley told this Baptist pastor - "_____________ was part of God's elect, he was saved veven if he didn't know it."

Readers will note that in a previous pst I mentioned how my admiration for "Big Ian" has grown since Christmas when he took what was then an unpopular hard line stand, but now has apparently been proved to be right.

I do take exception, Bro Bartholomew, with your statement about mote and beam picking. I am not perfect, but certainly am not overlooking my own sin to perceive un-Christlike statements made by Bro Paisley.

 

My appologies, C4K. I was referring more to the statements made by others who criticised him for being involoved in politics. I agree with you about Calvinism and also about unchristian things said to opposition politicians. However, many would seem to use things like this to say how terrible he is when in fact he is standing up for what is right, and many (even those whose theology I would agree with more than Bro Ian's) are not doing nearly so much for the cause of Christ.