What do you see?

Dave G said:

I agree.

The first thing I see in the passage above, is that God, through His prophet Isaiah, is addressing Israel...not all men.
The second thing that is fixed in my mind from other passages, is that Israel agreed at Mt. Sinai to a covenant of law that included blessings for obedience, and cursings for disobedience.

I see nothing in what you referenced that was or is intended for anyone outside of Israel.

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No Dave! Salivation is universal, from the beginning of time man has been saved the exact same way, faith in the Blood of the Lamb.

The call for salvation regardless of who it's directed at is directed to all!

Eph 2:8-9 For it is BY grace you have been saved THROUGH faith & this not from yourselves; it is the gift of God, not by works, so that no one can boast.

THROUGH: Greek: 'dia' (G1223) through, by the instumentality of. Word Origin: A primary preposition denoting the channel of an act.

When you diagram the sentence, apart from the modifying phrases: you have been saved; it is the gift of God, so that no one can boast. The gift is salvation. The means of obtaining this salvation is BY grace and THROUGH faith. Salvation is not from ourselves, but from God & his grace: unmerited favor. It is NOT by works, so not one human being can boast before God.
The Apostle Paul, who authored Ephesians, often contrasts faith with works, emphasizing that faith is the channel through which grace is received (Romans 3:28).

The idea of a divine gift is echoed in other scriptures, such as Romans 6:23, which contrasts the wages of sin with THE GIFT of eternal life.
Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Rom 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
John 20:31 But these are written, that YOU might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God & that believing YOU might have life through his name.
Romans 5:1 Therefore, since we have been justified BY faith, we have peace with God THROUGH (Greek: 'dia') our Lord Jesus Christ,

Again this verse brings out another key factor concerning faith. Here the preposition BY is the Greek word, 'ek' (G1537): From out, out from among, from, suggesting from the interior outwards. A primary preposition denoting origin, from, out.

The means of being justified before God & receiving His peace is through the medium of FAITH that comes out from our very being, crying out to God alone who can save us & give us eternal life and peace with God. The channel through which we receive peace with God is THROUGH our Lord Jesus Christ!

Rom 10:10 For with your heart you believe & are justified & with your mouth you confess & are saved.

Again, we believe with our heart & we confess with our mouth and so are justified & saved. God does not do the believing for us nor does He confess for us. But He is the one who saves us by His grace & His kindness & patience leads us to repenting from a godly sorrow, a sorrow according to the will of God & then we are able to have the knowledge of the truth & are able to acknowlege that truth ourselves.

Rom 10:16,17 But not all of them welcomed the good news. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our message?” Consequently, faith comes by hearing & hearing by the word of God.

Justification is a legal term signifying acquittal. In the context of Paul's letter, it means being declared righteous before God. This justification is not through works or the law but through faith, echoing Genesis 15:6, where Abraham's belief in God was credited to him as righteousness. This concept is central to the doctrine of salvation and is a cornerstone of Christian theology.

Eph 2:14-16 For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one & has broken down the middle wall of separation, having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace & that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity.

Jesus repeatedly told people that it was THEIR faith that was the means of their being saved or healed. God saves us by His unmerited grace but He doesn't believe FOR us, we are the ones who believe. He may grant us repentance leading to the acknowledging of the truth, but we are the onces acknowledging the truth; otherwise we are simply a robot, without a choice.

2 Tim 2:23-26 But refuse foolish & ignorant speculations, knowing that they produce quarrels. The Lord’s bond-servant must not be quarrelsome, but be kind to all, skillful in teaching, patient when wronged, with gentleness correcting those who are in opposition, if perhaps God may grant them repentance leading to the knowledge of the truth & they may come to their senses & escape from the snare of the devil, having been held captive by him to do his will.

2 Cor 7:10 For godly sorrow produces a repentance without regret, leading to salvation, but the sorrow of the world brings about death.
Rom 2:4 Or do you disregard the riches of His kindness, tolerance & patience, not realizing that God’s kindness leads you to repentance?

Much more can be said but I will stop here. God bless!

Dave G said:

In the first parable, the sower is the preacher of God's word, would you agree?

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Good question. What's being sown here? The word or the person?:

Matthew Chapter 13

Jesus repeatedly told people that it was THEIR faith that was the means of their being saved or healed by Him. God saves us by His unmerited grace but He doesn't believe FOR us, we are the ones who believe. He may grant us repentance leading to the acknowledging of the truth, but we are the ones acknowledging the truth; otherwise we are simply a robot, without a choice. Again, we believe with our heart & we confess with our mouth and so are justified & saved. God does not do the believing for us nor does He confess for us.

Luke 7:40-50 And Jesus answered and said to him, “Simon, I have something to say to you.” So he said, “Teacher, say it.” “There was a certain creditor who had two debtors. One owed 500 denarii & the other 50. And when they had nothing with which to repay, he freely forgave them both. Tell Me, therefore, which of them will love him more?” Simon answered & said, “I suppose the one whom he forgave more.”

And He said to him, “You have rightly judged.” Then He turned to the woman & said to Simon, “Do you see this woman? I entered your house; you gave Me no water for My feet, but she has washed My feet with her tears & wiped them with the hair of her head. You gave Me no kiss, but this woman has not ceased to kiss My feet since the time I came in. You did not anoint My head with oil, but this woman has anointed My feet with fragrant oil. Therefore I say to you, her sins, which are many, are forgiven, for she loved much. But to whom little is forgiven, the same loves little.” Then He said to her, “Your sins are forgiven.”

49And those who sat at the table with Him began to say to themselves, “Who is this who even forgives sins?” Then He said to the woman, “YOUR FAITH has saved you. Go in peace.”

I Pet 1:8,9 Though you have not seen Him, you love Him & though you do not see Him now, you believe in Him & rejoice with an inexpressible & glorious joy, now that you are receiving the goal of YOUR FAITH, the salvation of your souls.

Luke 18:35-43 Then it happened, as He was coming near Jericho, that a certain blind man sat by the road begging. And hearing a multitude passing by, he asked what it meant. So they told him that Jesus of Nazareth was passing by. And he cried out, saying, “Jesus, Son of David, have mercy on me!” Then those who went before warned him that he should be quiet; but he cried out all the more, “Son of David, have mercy on me!” So Jesus stood still & commanded him to be brought to Him. And when he had come near, He asked him, saying, “What do you want Me to do for you?” He said, “Lord, that I may receive my sight.” Then Jesus said to him, “Receive your sight; YOUR FAITH has made you well.” And immediately he received his sight & followed Him, glorifying God. And all the people, when they saw it, gave praise to God.

Mark5:25-34 Now a certain woman had a flow of blood for 12 years & had suffered many things from many physicians. She had spent all that she had & was no better, but rather grew worse. When she heard about Jesus, she came behind Him in the crowd & touched His garment. For she said, “If only I may touch His clothes, I shall be made well.”

29Immediately the fountain of her blood was dried up & she felt in her body that she was healed of the affliction. And Jesus, immediately knowing in Himself that power had gone out of Him, turned around in the crowd & said, “Who touched My clothes?” But His disciples said to Him, “You see the multitude thronging You & You say, ‘Who touched Me?’ ” And He looked around to see her who had done this thing. But the woman, fearing & trembling, knowing what had happened to her, came & fell down before Him & told Him the whole truth. And He said to her, “Daughter, YOUR FAITH has made you well. Go in peace & be healed of your affliction.”

Mark 5:22-24 And behold, one of the rulers of the synagogue came, Jairus by name. And when he saw Him, he fell at His feet & begged Him earnestly, saying, “My little daughter lies at the point of death. Come & lay Your hands on her, that she may be healed & she will live.” So Jesus went with him...While He was still speaking, some came from the ruler of the synagogue’s house who said, “Your daughter is dead. Why trouble the Teacher any further?” As soon as Jesus heard the word that was spoken, He said to the ruler of the synagogue, “Do not be afraid; only believe...” When He came in, He said to them, “Why make this commotion & weep? The child is not dead, but sleeping.” And they ridiculed Him...Then He took the child by the hand & said to her, “Talitha, cumi,” which is translated, “Little girl, I say to you, arise.” Immediately the girl arose & walked, for she was 12 years of age. And they were overcome with great amazement.

Matt 9:27-29 When Jesus departed from there, two blind men followed Him, crying out & saying, “Son of David, have mercy on us!”
And when He had come into the house, the blind men came to Him. And Jesus said to them, “Do YOU BELIEVE that I am able to do this?”
They said to Him, “Yes, Lord.” Then He touched their eyes, saying, “According to YOUR FAITH let it be to you.” 30And their eyes were opened.

Luke 17:11-19 Now it happened as He went to Jerusalem that He passed through the midst of Samaria & Galilee. Then as He entered a certain village, there met Him ten men who were lepers, who stood afar off. And they lifted up their voices & said, “Jesus, Master, have mercy on us!”
So when He saw them, He said to them, “Go, show yourselves to the priests.” And so it was that as they went, they were cleansed. And one of them, when he saw that he was healed, returned & with a loud voice glorified God, & fell down on his face at His feet, giving Him thanks. And he was a Samaritan. So Jesus answered & said, “Were there not ten cleansed? But where are the nine? Were there not any found who returned to give glory to God except this foreigner?” And He said to him, “Arise, go your way. YOUR FAITH has made you well.”

Mark 2:3-7 Then they came to Him, bringing a paralytic who was carried by four men. And when they could not come near Him because of the crowd, they uncovered the roof where He was. So when they had broken through, they let down the bed on which the paralytic was lying. When Jesus saw THEIR faith, He said to the paralytic, “Son, your sins are forgiven you.” And some of the scribes were sitting there & reasoning in their hearts, “Why does this Man speak blasphemies like this? Who can forgive sins but God alone?”

Phil 2:12,13 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, (you) work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; 13for it is God who works in you both to will & to do for His good pleasure.

1 Timothy 6:12 Fight the good fight of the faith. Take hold of the eternal life to which you were called when you made the good confession before many witnesses.

I Cor 2:4,5 And my speech & my preaching were not with persuasive words of human wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit & of power, so that YOUR FAITH should not be in the wisdom of men but in the power of God.

Blessings in the name of our Lord & Savior, Jesus Christ!

Charlie24 said:

No Dave! Salivation is universal, from the beginning of time man has been saved the exact same way, faith in the Blood of the Lamb.

The call for salvation regardless of who it's directed at is directed to all!

Click to expand...

I'm sorry sir, but we'll have to agree to disagree.
What I see when I read the Scriptures ( but has taken many years for it to come together in my studies of it ) is that the Lord chose a spiritual people before the foundation of the world, wrote their names in the Book of Life, and sent His Son to die for them on the cross.

In time, He "calls" each and every one of them through His word and through His Spirit..
Out of every tongue, tribe and nation.
It is those that He loves with an everlasting love, and is not willing that any one of them perish, but that all of them come to repentance.
They are kept by His power, ready to be revealed in the last time ( very soon now ), not their own power.

I wish you well, Charlie, and may the Lord be kind to you.

kyredneck said:

Good question. What's being sown here? The word or the person?:

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I do not know what translation you are using, ky, but mine says this:

" Hear ye therefore the parable of the sower.
19 When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth [it] not, then cometh the wicked [one], and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.
20 But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it;
21 yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.
22 He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful.
23 But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth [it]; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty."

In the above, I clearly see that the word of God is the seed being spoken of.
The ones who receive it vary in the way that the word is passively treated once it is received.
But I also see that the one who receives "the seed" into the good ground and brings forth fruit, is the one who is elect.
The rest are not.

In other words, those that continue in the word, are His disciples indeed ( John 8:31 ).

Dave G said:

I'm sorry sir, but we'll have to agree to disagree.
What I see when I read the Scriptures ( but has taken many years for it to come together in my studies of it ) is that the Lord chose a spiritual people before the foundation of the world, wrote their names in the Book of Life, and sent His Son to die for them on the cross.

In time, He "calls" each and every one of them through His word and through His Spirit..
Out of every tongue, tribe and nation.
It is those that He loves with an everlasting love, and is not willing that any one of them perish, but that all of them come to repentance.
They are kept by His power, ready to be revealed in the last time ( very soon now ), not their own power.

I wish you well, Charlie, and may the Lord be kind to you.

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We have 2 things in common that's apparent up front, Dave.

We are both born-again believers in Jesus Christ.

We have have both studied the Scripture for most if not all of our adult lives.

But we disagree, Brother. I agree to disagree.

Regardless of our differences I count you as my Brother in Christ.

Dave G said:

. . . the Lord chose a spiritual people before the foundation of the world, wrote their names in the Book of Life, and sent His Son to die for them on the cross.

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I agree. But nowhere does the written word of God explicitly explain that to be when names are written in His book of life. It is deduced to be so. There is more than one view as to why. In my understanding is not a limited atonement.

We can discuss it. And how I am not a Calvinist.

Dave G said:

what translation you are using

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ASV

I've heard it preached that the four 'grounds' are the persons, as in:

Hebrews Chapter 6

Check out Biblehub:

New International Version
The seed falling on rocky ground refers to someone who hears the word and at once receives it with joy.

New Living Translation
The seed on the rocky soil represents those who hear the message and immediately receive it with joy.

English Standard Version
As for what was sown on rocky ground, this is the one who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy,

Berean Standard Bible
The seed sown on rocky ground is the one who hears the word and at once receives it with joy.

Berean Literal Bible
And the one having been sown upon the rocky places, this is the one hearing the word and immediately receiving it with joy.

King James Bible
But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it;

New King James Version
But he who received the seed on stony places, this is he who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy;

New American Standard Bible
The one sown with seed on the rocky places, this is the one who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy;

NASB 1995
“The one on whom seed was sown on the rocky places, this is the man who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy;

NASB 1977
“And the one on whom seed was sown on the rocky places, this is the man who hears the word, and immediately receives it with joy;

Legacy Standard Bible
And the one on whom seed was sown on the rocky places, this is the man who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy;

Amplified Bible
The one on whom seed was sown on rocky ground, this is the one who hears the word and at once welcomes it with joy;

Christian Standard Bible
And the one sown on rocky ground—this is one who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
And the one sown on rocky ground—this is one who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy.

American Standard Version
And he that was sown upon the rocky places, this is he that heareth the word, and straightway with joy receiveth it;

Contemporary English Version
The seeds that fell on rocky ground are the people who gladly hear the message and accept it at once.

English Revised Version
And he that was sown upon the rocky places, this is he that heareth the word, and straightway with joy receiveth it;

GOD'S WORD® Translation
The seed planted on rocky ground [is the person who] hears the word and accepts it at once with joy.

Good News Translation
The seeds that fell on rocky ground stand for those who receive the message gladly as soon as they hear it.

International Standard Version
As for what was sown on the stony ground, this is the person who hears the word and accepts it joyfully at once,

NET Bible
The seed sown on rocky ground is the person who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy.

New Heart English Bible
And what was sown on the rocky places, this is he who hears the word, and immediately with joy receives it;

Webster's Bible Translation
But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and immediately with joy receiveth it;

Weymouth New Testament
He who has received the seed on the rocky ground is the man who hears the Message and immediately receives it with joy.
Majority Text Translations
Majority Standard Bible
The seed sown on rocky ground is the one who hears the word and at once receives it with joy.

World English Bible
What was sown on the rocky places, this is he who hears the word and immediately with joy receives it;
Literal Translations
Literal Standard Version
And that sown on the rocky places, this is he who is hearing the word, and immediately with joy is receiving it,

Berean Literal Bible
And the one having been sown upon the rocky places, this is the one hearing the word and immediately receiving it with joy.

Young's Literal Translation
'And that sown on the rocky places, this is he who is hearing the word, and immediately with joy is receiving it,

Smith's Literal Translation
And he having sown upon rocky places, this is he hearing the word, and quickly with joy receiving it;
Catholic Translations
Douay-Rheims Bible
And he that received the seed upon stony ground, is he that heareth the word, and immediately receiveth it with joy.

Catholic Public Domain Version
Then whoever has received the seed upon a rocky place, this is one who hears the word and promptly accepts it with joy.

New American Bible
The seed sown on rocky ground is the one who hears the word and receives it at once with joy.

New Revised Standard Version
As for what was sown on rocky ground, this is the one who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy;
Translations from Aramaic
Lamsa Bible
That which was sown upon the rock, this is he who hears the word, and immediately accepts it with joy;

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
But that which was sown upon the rock is the one who hears the word, and immediately with joy he receives it.
NT Translations
Anderson New Testament
He that received seed on the stony places is he that hears the word, and immediately receives it with joy.

Godbey New Testament
But the one sown upon the rocks, is he who heareth the word, and immediately with joy receives it;

Haweis New Testament
But the sown on the rocky soil, is he who having heard the word, and instantly with joy receiving it,

Mace New Testament
where other seed fell, denotes the man that heareth the word, and at first receives it with pleasure:

Weymouth New Testament
He who has received the seed on the rocky ground is the man who hears the Message and immediately receives it with joy.

Worrell New Testament
And he that was sown on the rocky places, this is he who hears the word, and straightway with joy receives it;

Worsley New Testament
And he who received the seed as upon stony grounds, is one that heareth the word and immediately receiveth it with joy

37818 said:

We can discuss it.

Click to expand...

We have, and we've agreed to disagree.

kyredneck said:

ASV

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Do you see how much the differing translations vary, especially in each and every word?

" But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it; " ( Matthew 13:20, AV ).

" And he that was sown upon the rocky places, this is he that heareth the word, and straightway with joy receiveth it;" ( Matthew 13:20, ASV ).

In the above, I see the "KJV" stating that a person has received the seed which was sowed...
Seed = word.
In the ASV, it's rendered as a person being sowed, not the word of God as the seed...
Seed = person.

This difference changes the entire meaning of the passage, doesn't it?

The question in my mind is, " What does the Greek actually say, and was it followed faithfully?".
When I looked, I found that the KJV renders it one way out of the "Textus Receptus" Greek, while the ASV renders it the other way out of the "Critical Text" Greek.

As far as translations go, I trust the AV and rest on the "Textus Receptus" as being God's preserved word in the Greek.
That is part of why I understand it the way that I do.


May God bless you sir.

Dave G said:

May God bless you sir.

Click to expand...

Isaiah Chapter 55

Dave G said:

We have, and we've agreed to disagree.

Click to expand...

On what point do you think I need to change my understanding on?

Charlie24 said:

OK, but be sure you know what "Perseverance of the saints" means.

It means because of God choosing them for salvation, with them having no say in the matter, they can't lose their salvation.

This is where Once Saved Always Saved was born! The Scripture says other..

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I'm sure others have responded already but I would simply offer that what you said is untrue...

From the Westminster

I. They, whom God hath accepted in His Beloved, effectually called, and sanctified by His Spirit, can neither totally nor finally fall away from the state of grace, but shall certainly persevere therein to the end, and be eternally saved, (Phl 1:6; 2Pe 1:10; Jhn 10:28-29; 1Jo 3:9; 1Pe 5:9).


II. This perseverance of the saints depends not upon their own free will, but upon the immutability of the decree of election, flowing from the free and unchangeable love of God the Father, (2Ti 2:18-19; Jer 31:3); upon the efficacy of the merit and intercession of Jesus Christ, (Hbr 10:10, 14; Hbr 13:20-21; Hbr 9:12-15; Rom 8:33-39; Jhn 17:11, 24; Luk 22:32; Hbr 7:25); the abiding of the Spirit, and of the seed of God within them, (Jhn 14:16-17; 1Jo 2:27; 1Jo 3:9); and the nature of the covenant of grace: from all which ariseth also the certainty and infallibility thereof, (Jer 32:40; Jhn 10:28; 2Th 3:3; 1Jo 2:19).


III. Nevertheless, they may, through the temptations of Satan and of the world, the prevalency of corruption remaining in them, and the neglect of the means of their preservation, fall into grievous sins, (Mat 26:70, 72, 74); and, for a time, continue therein, (Psa 51:14): whereby they incur Gods, displeasure, (Isa 64:5, 7, 9; 2Sa 11:27); and grieve His Holy Spirit, (Eph 4:30); come to be deprived of some measure of their graces and comforts, (Psa 51:8, 10, 12; Rev 2:4; Sgs 5:2-4, 6); have their hearts hardened, (Isa 63:17; Mar 6:52; Mar 16:14); and their consciences wounded, (Psa 32:3-4; Ps 51:8); hurt and scandalize others, (2Sa 12:14); and bring temporal judgments upon themselves, (Psa 89:31-32; 1Co 11:32).



This means the elect are actually Christians living out their faith, fearing God, and working out their sanctification so that they may be held blameless in Christ on the Day, all the while having comfort in the certainty of Christ bringing them through the fire and bringing us home with the help of His Holy Spirit, since the work is Christ's, and it is indeed finished.

Is this what you say?

I certainly thank God I have a Savior, and am not here saving myself.

From the 1689 Baptist Confession of Faith:

"Those whom God has accepted in the beloved, effectually called and sanctified by his Spirit, and given the precious faith of his elect unto, can neither totally nor finally fall from the state of grace, but shall certainly persevere therein to the end, and be eternally saved, seeing the gifts and callings of God are without repentance, from which source he still begets and nourishes in them faith, repentance, love, joy, hope, and all the graces of the Spirit unto immortality;1 and though many storms and floods arise and beat against them, yet they shall never be able to take them off that foundation and rock which by faith they are fastened upon; notwithstanding, through unbelief and the temptations of Satan, the sensible sight of the light and love of God may for a time be clouded and obscured from them,2 yet he is still the same, and they shall be sure to be kept by the power of God unto salvation, where they shall enjoy their purchased possession, they being engraved upon the palm of his hands, and their names having been written in the book of life from all eternity.3

1 John 10:28,29; Phil. 1:6; 2 Tim. 2:19; 1 John 2:19
2 Ps. 89:31–32; 1 Cor. 11:32
3 Mal. 3:6

This perseverance of the saints depends not upon their own free will, but upon the immutability of the decree of election,4 flowing from the free and unchangeable love of God the Father, upon the efficacy of the merit and intercession of Jesus Christ and union with him,5 the oath of God,6 the abiding of his Spirit, and the seed of God within them,7 and the nature of the covenant of grace;8 from all which ariseth also the certainty and infallibility thereof."

4 Rom. 8:30, 9:11,16
5 Rom. 5:9, 10; John 14:19
6 Heb. 6:17–18
7 1 John 3:9
8 Jer. 32:40

Dave G said:

I'm sorry sir, but we'll have to agree to disagree.
What I see when I read the Scriptures ( but has taken many years for it to come together in my studies of it ) is that the Lord chose a spiritual people before the foundation of the world, wrote their names in the Book of Life, and sent His Son to die for them on the cross.

In time, He "calls" each and every one of them through His word and through His Spirit..
Out of every tongue, tribe and nation.
It is those that He loves with an everlasting love, and is not willing that any one of them perish, but that all of them come to repentance.
They are kept by His power, ready to be revealed in the last time ( very soon now ), not their own power.

I wish you well, Charlie, and may the Lord be kind to you.

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Hello Dave.

When God determined the means He would use to spread the Gospel is the preaching of the word of God, He determined the the Gospel to go out to all.

1 Corinthians 1:18: "For the word of the cross is to those who are perishing foolishness, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God".

John 3:19 And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their works were evil.

When the preacher preaches, He is heaping burning coals on the heads of those who are goats.

Proverbs 25:21-22 "if your enemy is hungry, give him bread to eat, and if he is thirsty, give him water to drink, for you will heap burning coals on his head, and the LORD will reward you"

The Bread we offer our enemies is the Bread of Life, and the water we offer is the Water of Life. It is either salvation, or that thing by which we will be judged negatively.

Our rewards for preaching are great, as perhaps our enemies might become saved and be our brother, in accordance with the will of our Father in Heaven.

We always look forward with hope, but with fear and trembling also as this is judgement on the lost, so we should speak the Gospel well.

Hazelelponi said:

I'm sure others have responded already but I would simply offer that what you said is untrue...

From the Westminster

I. They, whom God hath accepted in His Beloved, effectually called, and sanctified by His Spirit, can neither totally nor finally fall away from the state of grace, but shall certainly persevere therein to the end, and be eternally saved, (Phl 1:6; 2Pe 1:10; Jhn 10:28-29; 1Jo 3:9; 1Pe 5:9).


II. This perseverance of the saints depends not upon their own free will, but upon the immutability of the decree of election, flowing from the free and unchangeable love of God the Father, (2Ti 2:18-19; Jer 31:3); upon the efficacy of the merit and intercession of Jesus Christ, (Hbr 10:10, 14; Hbr 13:20-21; Hbr 9:12-15; Rom 8:33-39; Jhn 17:11, 24; Luk 22:32; Hbr 7:25); the abiding of the Spirit, and of the seed of God within them, (Jhn 14:16-17; 1Jo 2:27; 1Jo 3:9); and the nature of the covenant of grace: from all which ariseth also the certainty and infallibility thereof, (Jer 32:40; Jhn 10:28; 2Th 3:3; 1Jo 2:19).


III. Nevertheless, they may, through the temptations of Satan and of the world, the prevalency of corruption remaining in them, and the neglect of the means of their preservation, fall into grievous sins, (Mat 26:70, 72, 74); and, for a time, continue therein, (Psa 51:14): whereby they incur Gods, displeasure, (Isa 64:5, 7, 9; 2Sa 11:27); and grieve His Holy Spirit, (Eph 4:30); come to be deprived of some measure of their graces and comforts, (Psa 51:8, 10, 12; Rev 2:4; Sgs 5:2-4, 6); have their hearts hardened, (Isa 63:17; Mar 6:52; Mar 16:14); and their consciences wounded, (Psa 32:3-4; Ps 51:8); hurt and scandalize others, (2Sa 12:14); and bring temporal judgments upon themselves, (Psa 89:31-32; 1Co 11:32).

Of the Perseverance of the Saints - Westminster Confession of 1646 - Study Resources

'Chapter XVII. Of the Perseverance of the Saints I. They, whom God hath accepted in His Beloved, effectually called, and sanctified by His Spirit, can...'

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This means the elect are actually Christians living out their faith, fearing God, and working out their sanctification so that they may be held blameless in Christ on the Day, all the while having comfort in the certainty of Christ bringing them through the fire and bringing us home with the help of His Holy Spirit, since the work is Christ's, and it is indeed finished.

Is this what you say?

I certainly thank God I have a Savior, and am not here saving myself.

From the 1689 Baptist Confession of Faith:

"Those whom God has accepted in the beloved, effectually called and sanctified by his Spirit, and given the precious faith of his elect unto, can neither totally nor finally fall from the state of grace, but shall certainly persevere therein to the end, and be eternally saved, seeing the gifts and callings of God are without repentance, from which source he still begets and nourishes in them faith, repentance, love, joy, hope, and all the graces of the Spirit unto immortality;1 and though many storms and floods arise and beat against them, yet they shall never be able to take them off that foundation and rock which by faith they are fastened upon; notwithstanding, through unbelief and the temptations of Satan, the sensible sight of the light and love of God may for a time be clouded and obscured from them,2 yet he is still the same, and they shall be sure to be kept by the power of God unto salvation, where they shall enjoy their purchased possession, they being engraved upon the palm of his hands, and their names having been written in the book of life from all eternity.3

1 John 10:28,29; Phil. 1:6; 2 Tim. 2:19; 1 John 2:19
2 Ps. 89:31–32; 1 Cor. 11:32
3 Mal. 3:6

This perseverance of the saints depends not upon their own free will, but upon the immutability of the decree of election,4 flowing from the free and unchangeable love of God the Father, upon the efficacy of the merit and intercession of Jesus Christ and union with him,5 the oath of God,6 the abiding of his Spirit, and the seed of God within them,7 and the nature of the covenant of grace;8 from all which ariseth also the certainty and infallibility thereof."

4 Rom. 8:30, 9:11,16
5 Rom. 5:9, 10; John 14:19
6 Heb. 6:17–18
7 1 John 3:9
8 Jer. 32:40

Of the Perseverance of the Saints — The 1689 Baptist Confession of Faith

Chapter 17

www.the1689confession.com

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Basically brother, God promises that he starts and will finish His great work of saving us, and will seal us and live and work in and thru us until that day

JesusFan said:

Basically brother, God promises that he starts and will finish His great work of saving us, and will seal us and live and work in and thru us until that day

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Amen!

I'm a sister.

Hazelelponi said:

Amen!

I'm a sister.

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sorry about that! Are you aware of Al fadi and dr jay Smith, as the Lord has used those 2 to really reach out to confront and destroy Islam on internet, along with Christian prince

JesusFan said:

sorry about that! Are you aware of Al fadi and dr jay Smith, as the Lord has used those 2 to really reach out to confront and destroy Islam on internet, along with Christian prince

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Not heard of them.