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Baptism - Sprinkled or Dunked?

C

Charlie24

Active Member
Cathode said:
I didn’t attend my most memorable baptism, I was however witness to its after effects.
I visited a friends place but he wasn’t home, he had gone out to the shops. His wife invited me in to wait till he came home.
I sat down on the couch as she went to get her baby son. When she returned holding him, I couldn’t even look at them because the light emanating off the baby was brighter than welder light. The light had a quality of Joy and Holiness in it, I couldn’t explain. Dumbfounded, I was about ask her if the baby had been baptised, but remembered how viciously anti religious she was, so I bit my tongue.
For about 10 minutes I was making small talk with her as this baby was wriggling and shining with this Divine Light in her lap.
My friend came home from the shop, but had forgotten the milk, and I said I would go with him.
Away from the house at the car I asked if the baby had been baptised or something. And my friend couldn’t believe it, and asked how I knew, I said, he is shining with light of a thousand suns it’s pretty hard to miss. He told me he secretly baptised his son at the bath sink without his wife or anyone knowing just shortly before he went out.
My seeing this effect cast off for him any lingering doubt he had.

Baptism is real regeneration, it is not merely symbolic.
Click to expand...

If baptismal regeneration is true, then all men are dependent on another man to make their regeneration possible through a ceremony.

That is heresy! Salvation is all of God and none of man.

Baptismal regeneration is a faith + works salvation that will be rejected by Christ.
 
C

Cathode

Well-Known Member
Charlie24 said:
If baptismal regeneration is true, then all men are dependent on another man to make their regeneration possible through a ceremony.

That is heresy! Salvation is all of God and none of man.

Baptismal regeneration is a faith + works salvation that will be rejected by Christ.
Click to expand...

So what works does a Catholic baby do to be saved at water Baptism? Nothing.

Protestants do more works than this for salvation, having to make a profession of Faith after examining the word.

Protestantism is more works based salvation.
 
C

Charlie24

Active Member
Cathode said:
So what works does a Catholic baby do to be saved at water Baptism? Nothing.

Protestants do more works than this for salvation, having to make a profession of Faith after examining the word.

Protestantism is more works based salvation.
Click to expand...

You know as well as I there no such thing as infant baptism found in the Scripture.

There's no work in saying yes to Christ.
 
canadyjd

canadyjd

Well-Known Member
Cathode said:
So what works does a Catholic baby do to be saved at water Baptism? Nothing.

Protestants do more works than this for salvation, having to make a profession of Faith after examining the word.

Protestantism is more works based salvation.
Click to expand...
There may be some Protestants that mix works and faith for salvation.

Generally speaking, Baptists do not.

Scripture, imo, teaches us that salvation is all of grace and none of works. However, it is clear from scripture that God has prepared works for His children to do. So, there is the expectation of a transformed life that produces good works, though those works do not warrant the salvation.

I’ve heard it said that Baptists believe that you don’t get to heaven based on doing good works…. and many seem determined to prove it. And that is sad.

Peace to you
 
C

Cathode

Well-Known Member
Charlie24 said:
You know as well as I there no such thing as infant baptism found in the Scripture.

There's no work in saying yes to Christ.
Click to expand...

Infant Baptism and Baptismal Regeneration was Universal Christian belief for the first 1500 years, and the majority belief today.
Your understanding of Scripture is erroneous.
 
C

Charlie24

Active Member
Cathode said:
Infant Baptism and Baptismal Regeneration was Universal Christian belief for the first 1500 years, and the majority belief today.
Your understanding of Scripture is erroneous
Click to expand...

The problem I've found over the years in arguing with the Catholics is that they're nice respectable people.

You just don't want to point out the errors in catholicism and why we had depart after that 1500 years.

If I could find even the slightest hint of infant baptism in Scripture I wouldn't[t disagree, but along with many other things in catholicism, it's just not there.
 
C

Charlie24

Active Member
Charlie24 said:
The problem I've found over the years in arguing with the Catholics is that they're nice respectable people.

You just don't want to point out the errors in catholicism and why we had depart after that 1500 years.

If I could find even the slightest hint of infant baptism in Scripture I wouldn't[t disagree, but along with many other things in catholicism, it's just not there.
Click to expand...

The closest thing that I have personally witnessed to infant baptism is a formal dedication.

The parents bring their infant child before the congregation, the pastor anoints the child's forehead with water, representing the Holy Spirit, and the parents make a formal dedication to raise that child in the ways of Lord.

It's based on Prov. 22:6

"Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it."
 
C

Cathode

Well-Known Member
canadyjd said:
There may be some Protestants that mix works and faith for salvation.

Generally speaking, Baptists do not.

Scripture, imo, teaches us that salvation is all of grace and none of works. However, it is clear from scripture that God has prepared works for His children to do. So, there is the expectation of a transformed life that produces good works, though those works do not warrant the salvation.

I’ve heard it said that Baptists believe that you don’t get to heaven based on doing good works…. and many seem determined to prove it. And that is sad.
Click to expand...

“Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven”

You can have faith enough to believe and call Jesus your Lord, but you must also do the Will of The Father in Heaven.

Doing the Will of The Father in Heaven requires a great deal of good works because the Will of The Father is to Love.

Faith without Works is dead, because Faith without Love is dead.

No Love, no salvation.

In the spiritual, what marks the Kingdom out is the Love.
 
C

Charlie24

Active Member
Cathode said:
“Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven”

You can have faith enough to believe and call Jesus your Lord, but you must also do the Will of The Father in Heaven.

Doing the Will of The Father in Heaven requires a great deal of good works because the Will of The Father is to Love.

Faith without Works is dead, because Faith without Love is dead.

No Love, no salvation.

In the spiritual, what marks the Kingdom out is the Love.
Click to expand...

That is a misunderstanding of our Lord's salvation.

The work begins after the fact of salvation, not to become saved.

The grace of God for salvation is a free gift, free from anything man can do.

Paul plainly said if it be of works it is no more of grace.

My advice to you, Cathode, is to reconsider what you must do to be saved.
 
J

JesusFan

Well-Known Member
Charlie24 said:
If baptismal regeneration is true, then all men are dependent on another man to make their regeneration possible through a ceremony.

That is heresy! Salvation is all of God and none of man.

Baptismal regeneration is a faith + works salvation that will be rejected by Christ.
Click to expand...
The power is not in the water, but in the shed blood of Yeshua
 
J

JesusFan

Well-Known Member
Cathode said:
Infant Baptism and Baptismal Regeneration was Universal Christian belief for the first 1500 years, and the majority belief today.
Your understanding of Scripture is erroneous.
Click to expand...
NO clear biblical evidence that teaches that "truth", as all so called has to be based upon one reading back into text church tradition and beliefs
 
J

JesusFan

Well-Known Member
Cathode said:
“Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven”

You can have faith enough to believe and call Jesus your Lord, but you must also do the Will of The Father in Heaven.

Doing the Will of The Father in Heaven requires a great deal of good works because the Will of The Father is to Love.

Faith without Works is dead, because Faith without Love is dead.

No Love, no salvation.

In the spiritual, what marks the Kingdom out is the Love.
Click to expand...
Strange that the One who gave to us Pauline Justification stated to us that he thanked God did not baptize many, but preached Jesus death and resurrection and one must believe in Him by faith
 
J

JesusFan

Well-Known Member
Cathode said:
“Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven”

You can have faith enough to believe and call Jesus your Lord, but you must also do the Will of The Father in Heaven.

Doing the Will of The Father in Heaven requires a great deal of good works because the Will of The Father is to Love.

Faith without Works is dead, because Faith without Love is dead.

No Love, no salvation.

In the spiritual, what marks the Kingdom out is the Love.
Click to expand...
Your church of rome holds to heresy of infant regeration and sacrament gracing salvation
 
C

Cathode

Well-Known Member
Charlie24 said:
The problem I've found over the years in arguing with the Catholics is that they're nice respectable people.

You just don't want to point out the errors in catholicism and why we had depart after that 1500 years.

If I could find even the slightest hint of infant baptism in Scripture I wouldn't[t disagree, but along with many other things in catholicism, it's just not there.
Click to expand...

Stop a second and seriously ask yourself why all of Christianity practiced infant baptism and believed baptism was regeneration for the first 1500 years.

They were all stupid, all deceived completely and universally?

Not possible for the church to be universally deceived because of Jesus promise.

They didn’t have the Bible?

Yes they did, they were the ones that received the writings from the Apostles, defended them through great persecution and assembled the Bible in the first place.

Universal belief goes far beyond a majority belief.

If your understanding of scripture goes against universal Christian understanding of Scripture, it’s your understanding of scripture that is in error.

Also, you are arguing from absence, which is no argument at all. The Trinity isn’t explicitly said in scripture, it’s implied. Infant baptism is also implied, and not denied in scripture.

We also have the continuous practice of infant baptism from the Apostles, which was universal for over 1500 years, and by far the greatest majority today believe it.

If Zwingli is your Apostle preaching another gospel follow him, he was the first market baptism as symbolic.
 
C

Charlie24

Active Member
Cathode said:
Stop a second and seriously ask yourself why all of Christianity practiced infant baptism and believed baptism was regeneration for the first 1500 years.

They were all stupid, all deceived completely and universally?

Not possible for the church to be universally deceived because of Jesus promise.

They didn’t have the Bible?

Yes they did, they were the ones that received the writings from the Apostles, defended them through great persecution and assembled the Bible in the first place.

Universal belief goes far beyond a majority belief.

If your understanding of scripture goes against universal Christian understanding of Scripture, it’s your understanding of scripture that is in error.

Also, you are arguing from absence, which is no argument at all. The Trinity isn’t explicitly said in scripture, it’s implied. Infant baptism is also implied, and not denied in scripture.

We also have the continuous practice of infant baptism from the Apostles, which was universal for over 1500 years, and by far the greatest majority today believe it.

If Zwingli is your Apostle preaching another gospel follow him, he was the first market baptism as symbolic.
Click to expand...

Stop a second and seriously ask yourself where infant baptism originated!

It's most certainly not found anywhere in Scripture.

It came from the minds (Popes) of men who believed we must work for our salvation.
 
C

Cathode

Well-Known Member
Charlie24 said:
The closest thing that I have personally witnessed to infant baptism is a formal dedication.

The parents bring their infant child before the congregation, the pastor anoints the child's forehead with water, representing the Holy Spirit, and the parents make a formal dedication to raise that child in the ways of Lord.

It's based on Prov. 22:6

"Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it."
Click to expand...

Well they need to enter the new Covenant.

All the Early Christians baptised infants and all Christianity baptised infants universally for the first 1500 years.
 
C

Cathode

Well-Known Member
Charlie24 said:
God's Word is not a matter of what doctrine is missing, it's a matter of what has been stated.

Again, this corrupt and ungodly practice was devised by man.
Click to expand...

Then, where is it stated in scripture “ Yea shall not baptise infants “?

It’s not there Charlie.

Infant baptism is implied like the Trinity however.

  • “She was baptized, with her household” (Acts 16:15)
  • “He was baptized at once, with all his family” (Acts 16:33; 18:8 also implicitly implies it)
  • “I did baptize also the household of Stephanas.” (1 Corinthians 1:16)

Nowhere is it taught in scripture that baptism is denied to infants.

Christianity has always baptised infants, it’s only when some men in Protestantism in the 1600s first decided they knew better than all Christianity preached another gospel and wrongful doctrine.
It’s unscriptural.

Scripture nowhere teaches denying infants baptism.
 
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