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Trinity

37818

37818

Well-Known Member
There are at least three views of the Biblical Trinity

As it is, even Trinitarians disagree on what it has to be in order to be an orthodox Trinity.

Tritheist formula, many allow.
Trinity, many regard as a mystery.
Many the Sonship must be eternal without a beginning.
Many think eternal Sonship is eternally generated by the Father.
To name some points where Biblical Trinititarians may differ.
 
C

Charlie24

Well-Known Member
37818 said:
There are at least three views of the Biblical Trinity

As it is, even Trinitarians disagree on what it has to be in order to be an orthodox Trinity.

Tritheist formula, many allow.
Trinity, many regard as a mystery.
Many the Sonship must be eternal without a beginning.
Many think eternal Sonship is eternally generated by the Father.
To name some points where Biblical Trinititarians may differ.
Click to expand...

There are some things not meant to be understood, or probably better said, man is incapable of understanding, in this case, the Trinity.

We know just enough to know that Jesus Christ is God. I think that was the point, and maybe all we need to know for now.
 
37818

37818

Well-Known Member
Charlie24 said:
There are some things not meant to be understood, or probably better said, man is incapable of understanding, in this case, the Trinity.

We know just enough to know that Jesus Christ is God. I think that was the point, and maybe all we need to know for now.
Click to expand...
Well, I think the disagreement can be discussed.

We all agree the Trinity is three distinct Persons who are the one same LORD God.
 
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JonC

JonC

Moderator
Moderator
37818 said:
There are at least three views of the Biblical Trinity

As it is, even Trinitarians disagree on what it has to be in order to be an orthodox Trinity.

Tritheist formula, many allow.
Trinity, many regard as a mystery.
Many the Sonship must be eternal without a beginning.
Many think eternal Sonship is eternally generated by the Father.
To name some points where Biblical Trinititarians may differ.
Click to expand...
And to add to that are how terms are defined by those who hold a doctrine and not by those who disagree with that doctrine (the holder gets to define what something means in their belief).

So there can be a lot of talking past one another.

"Sonship" and "generation" are good examples. Those who hold that the Sonship is eternal really hold that "generated by the Father" is eternal (as defined by eternal generation folk) because those who believe "eternal generation" are saying "eternal Sonship" in different words (and perhaps a different emphasis).

So it gets difficult talking across different positions. Misunderstanding often occur.
 
37818

37818

Well-Known Member
JonC said:
And to add to that are how terms are defined by those who hold a doctrine and not by those who disagree with that doctrine (the holder gets to define what something means in their belief).

So there can be a lot of talking past one another.

"Sonship" and "generation" are good examples. Those who hold that the Sonship is eternal really hold that "generated by the Father" is eternal (as defined by eternal generation folk) because those who believe "eternal generation" are saying "eternal Sonship" in different words (and perhaps a different emphasis).

So it gets difficult talking across different positions. Misunderstanding often occur.
Click to expand...
Where do you find eternal generation in the Bible?
 
J

JesusFan

Well-Known Member
JonC said:
And to add to that are how terms are defined by those who hold a doctrine and not by those who disagree with that doctrine (the holder gets to define what something means in their belief).

So there can be a lot of talking past one another.

"Sonship" and "generation" are good examples. Those who hold that the Sonship is eternal really hold that "generated by the Father" is eternal (as defined by eternal generation folk) because those who believe "eternal generation" are saying "eternal Sonship" in different words (and perhaps a different emphasis).

So it gets difficult talking across different positions. Misunderstanding often occur.
Click to expand...
Think this is a good point to explore, as is Jesus the eternal SON from all eternity, or was He the Son at the incarnation, and before that point of time was the eternal Word of the Father?
 
JonC

JonC

Moderator
Moderator
JesusFan said:
Think this is a good point to explore, as is Jesus the eternal SON from all eternity, or was He the Son at the incarnation, and before that point of time was the eternal Word of the Father?
Click to expand...
Or both, depending on context.
 
JonC

JonC

Moderator
Moderator
JesusFan said:
WHAT WAS HE before incarnation, and what was He after?
Click to expand...
Before the Incarnation, in the beginning, He was the Word. The Word was with God, and the Word was God. The Word became flesh.

What I mean by "depending on context" is you can say that relationship of coming forth from the Father existed before Jesus' birth on Bethlehem. But at the same time, there is aloint in history where Hesus was born of a virgin.

So I look at it this way (just my opinion) -

Jesus is always the Son of God.
Jesus became the Son of Adam.
 
J

JesusFan

Well-Known Member
JonC said:
Before the Incarnation, in the beginning, He was the Word. The Word was with God, and the Word was God. The Word became flesh.

What I mean by "depending on context" is you can say that relationship of coming forth from the Father existed before Jesus' birth on Bethlehem. But at the same time, there is aloint in history where Hesus was born of a virgin.

So I look at it this way (just my opinion) -

Jesus is always the Son of God.
Jesus became the Son of Adam.
Click to expand...
Jesus existed when the Second Person of the Trinity assumed human flesh and humanity, before that was God, not yet Jesus
 
JonC

JonC

Moderator
Moderator
JesusFan said:
Jesus existed when the Second Person of the Trinity assumed human flesh and humanity, before that was God, not yet Jesus
Click to expand...
Yes. We use the name "Jesus" to refer to pre-incarnate Christ for clarity. Imagine if you had to discuss Christophanies and every time you had to say "the pre-incarnate Messiah".

My point is the Son of God existed before the foundation of the world. But it was a point in time when the Son of God became the Son of Adam.

Jesus even said this in His earthly ministry when He said "before Abraham was I AM".
 
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