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"Predestined According to the Purpose of Him Who Works all things According to the Counsel of His Will", Ephesians 1:11.

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Charlie24

Well-Known Member
Charlie24 said:
That's how Satan works, as proof from the Garden in the very beginning.

He mixes in a few lies with the truth and expands on it over time.
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God is not the only one who searches throughout time for those who will obey Him, Satan does the same thing and is very successful at it.

Adolf Hitler would be a prime example. Satan used him in the attempt to wipe out the Jews to stop the prophecy of Israel becoming a nation again.

Everything Satan does is aimed against God. Especially God's plan of redemption for mankind, Satan will fight it to the end.
 
atpollard

atpollard

Well-Known Member
Charlie24 said:
God is not the only one who searches throughout time for those who will obey Him, Satan does the same thing and is very successful at it.

Adolf Hitler would be a prime example. Satan used him in the attempt to wipe out the Jews to stop the prophecy of Israel becoming a nation again.

Everything Satan does is aimed against God. Especially God's plan of redemption for mankind, Satan will fight it to the end.
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If I could offer a "compatibalist" observation:

The Zionist movement (move to re-establish a Jewish State/homeland) began in the 1880's and the Balfour Declaration (1917) established Britain's support for the movement. However it is worth noting that there was actually very little progress made by the 1930's with the US and British backpedaling by the 1920's.

The Holocaust, while horrific and clearly "of" Satan, was also the "tool" that God used to move Israel from a rejected plan to a physical reality.

"But as for you, ye thought evil against me; [but] God meant it unto good" - Gen 50:20 [KJV]
 
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Charlie24

Well-Known Member
Brightfame52 said:
Last time,

How do they believe stated in this scripture ? Eph 1:19

19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,
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Anytime that Paul uses the word "faith or believe" he is referring to what Christ did on the Cross for us.

"His power to us-ward who BELIEVE" is the power through the Holy Spirit to live a holy life by what Christ did for us on the Cross.

"According to the working of His mighty power" is the works for us through our BELIEVEING in what Christ did for us on the Cross.
 
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C

Charlie24

Well-Known Member
atpollard said:
If I could offer a "compatibalist" observation:

The Zionist movement (move to re-establish a Jewish State/homeland) began in the 1880's and the Balfour Declaration (1917) established Britain's support for the movement. However it is worth noting that there was actually very little progress made by the 1930's with the US and British backpedaling by the 1920's.

The Holocaust, while horrific and clearly "of" Satan, was also the "tool" that God used to move Israel from a rejected plan to a physical reality.

"But as for you, ye thought evil against me; [but] God meant it unto good" - Gen 50:20 [KJV]
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That's what God does for us who trust in Him, He turns the evil against us into good through His love for us.
 
Silverhair

Silverhair

Well-Known Member
Brightfame52 said:
Of course it did, whatever response you gave to it was ordained of God. Its success isn't dependent on whether or not you accept it, believe it, or agree with it but Gods purpose for it.
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Only if you believe that He also ordains all the sin and evil in the world. Which would then
1] contradict the bible
or
2] make Him the ultimate sinner

Are you saying that God is the ultimate sinner BF? Your ordained view does.
 
kyredneck

kyredneck

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Silverhair said:
Prove what I said is wrong KY or apologize for your unwarranted comments.

You are not showing a Christian attitude their young fellow.
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I’m no more a pagan for supposedly being in agreement with Augustinian concepts than you are a Pharisee for adhering to the writings of Paul, follow the connection?

The only ‘Augustinian writing’ I know is the ditty “The new is in the old concealed, the old is in the new revealed” that supposedly originated with him.

No apology from me for telling what you need to hear. Stop spewing your juvenile claptrap.
 
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Silverhair

Silverhair

Well-Known Member
kyredneck said:
I’m no more a pagan for supposedly being in agreement with Augustinian concepts than you are a Pharisee for adhering to the writings of Paul, follow the connection?

The only ‘Augustinian writing’ I know is the ditty “The new is in the old concealed, the old is in the new revealed” that supposedly originated with him.

No apology from me for telling what you need to hear. Stop spewing your juvenile claptrap.
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Did I say you were a pagan, NO. What I said is that you hold to the pagan philosophy that augustine brought into the church which is factual.

And since I do not alter the writing of the bible I could not be a Pharisee.

I will continue to point out the errors of the C/R view as it relates to the teaching of augustine and the misuse of scripture.

Now you may not like that I do that but I am on solid ground when I do.

But I am sure you will continue to disagree with the biblical posts I make just as I will disagree with the the false philosophy that you post.
 
Silverhair

Silverhair

Well-Known Member
Aaron said:
So it seems. His signature should be: Rewrite the Scriptures if you must, but never under any circumstances cede to a Calvinist.
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I leave the rewriting to those of the C/R philosophy.

And you are right, why would I give credence to a philosophy that is not biblical.
 
Silverhair

Silverhair

Well-Known Member
kyredneck said:
No. It's a lie. I hold to no pagan philosophy, I believe what the Bible says
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You did say you are a primitive baptist correct?

So you hold to the calvinist teachings, TULIP/DoG correct?

So if you hold to those views then you are holding to the views that augustine brought into the church from pagan philosophy.

So you may not think you hold to pagan philosophy but history and your theology proves you wrong.
 
kyredneck

kyredneck

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Silverhair said:
You did say you are a primitive baptist correct?

So you hold to the calvinist teachings, TULIP/DoG correct?

So if you hold to those views then you are holding to the views that augustine brought into the church from pagan philosophy.

So you may not think you hold to pagan philosophy but history and your theology proves
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Did Augustine bring TULIP into the church?

"No, St. Augustine did not "bring TULIP into the church." TULIP, the five-point Calvinist acronym, was not formalized until after Augustine's death. While Augustine's theological work significantly influenced later developments in Christian thought, including Calvinism, the specific TULIP framework emerged in the context of Reformed theology, particularly during the Dutch Reformed debate with Arminians. "

You're so dishonest, everything you say needs to be checked.
 
Silverhair

Silverhair

Well-Known Member
kyredneck said:
You're so knowledgeable about Augustine, how about providing us with some details of this pagan philosophy he supposedly brought into the church.
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We can start here KY.

These influential philosophies ‘Stoicism, Neoplatonism, Gnosticism, and Manicheanism’ all gave life to Augustine’s later theology.

From the Stoics, there was assumed freedom that was ultimately “hidden within a mere façade of “free will .

From the Neoplatonists, a free choice meant that there is a need for the restoration “by divine infusion to restore the will.

Form Gnostics, “all works are predestined, discipline and abstinence effect nothing, and the elect are saved by knowing that they are saved.

From the Manicheans, man’s “‘enslaved will’ cannot choose – it is damned until unilaterally released” by God’s own initiative.

All these philosophies “requires the divine being to unilaterally awaken a “dead soul” who then only can respond to the divine person.

They also “require divine micromanagement,” “substitute the Jewish and Christian residual ‘imago Dei’, “teach humanities ‘free will’ was destroyed or died,” “a unilateral infusion of grace, faith and/or love.”
form Dr. Ken Wilson’s “the Foundation of Augustinian-Calvinism

Do any of these sound familiar KY. They should as these were the basis of augustine’s later theology that calvin and then later clavinists carried forward to today.

Those are the teachings of your TULIP/DoG.

The information is readily available to anyone that wants to find it.

Note KY I am not questioning whether you are saved, I am questioning the basis of the philosophy that you support.

The word of God is our standard not augustine or calvin or any other man. That is why I press people to check out the history for themselves.

As Charles Spurgeon rightly said:

“DISCERNMENT is not simply telling the difference between what is Right and Wrong;
rather, it is the difference between Right and Almost right.”
 
Silverhair

Silverhair

Well-Known Member
kyredneck said:
Did Augustine bring TULIP into the church?

"No, St. Augustine did not "bring TULIP into the church." TULIP, the five-point Calvinist acronym, was not formalized until after Augustine's death. While Augustine's theological work significantly influenced later developments in Christian thought, including Calvinism, the specific TULIP framework emerged in the context of Reformed theology, particularly during the Dutch Reformed debate with Arminians. "

You're so dishonest, everything you say needs to be checked.
Click to expand...

Did I say he brought the TULIP/DoG into the church, Nope did not.

What he brought in was the basis on which you vaulted TULIP/DoG is based.

And you should check out what I said KY. But you won't do that as it would shake the foundations of your precious philosophy.

You care more about protecting that false teaching than you do the word of God. As a Christian you should be ashamed of yourself.
 
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