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"Predestined According to the Purpose of Him Who Works all things According to the Counsel of His Will", Ephesians 1:11.

Silverhair

Silverhair

Well-Known Member
Aaron said:
LOL. He said, when confronted with his own revisionism.

those who love Him,
He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son
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@Aaron you are like an old scratched record you just keep making the same noise over and over.

For something that your C/R's love to quote it seems you do not even know your own bible

Rom 8:28 And we know that God works all things together for the good of those who love Him, who are called according to His purpose.
Rom 8:29 For those God foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brothers.
 
Silverhair

Silverhair

Well-Known Member
Brightfame52 said:
We know that the elect were chosen and predestined before the foundation of the world Eph 1:4-5. and nobody loves God by nature, we hate Him, a heart that loves God comes from spiritual circumcision which is the new birth
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BF you are getting really tiring as you are not very original and most certainly not someone I would trust to tell me what the bible says.

But you can be forgiven as you do not have a free will with which to make an actual argument, your whole life being determined and all.
 
kyredneck

kyredneck

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Silverhair said:
All these philosophies “requires the divine being to unilaterally awaken a “dead soul” who then only can respond to the divine person.
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Wow. Imagine that.

Ephesians Chapter 2

4​

but God, being rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,

5​

even when we were dead through our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace have ye been saved),
 
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kyredneck

kyredneck

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
"The largest difference is that Augustine held to single predestination (God chooses the elect, but does not actively reprobate anyone - he simply "passes over" them), while Calvin held to double predestination (God choose the elect to salvation, and the reprobate to damnation)"

Which seems to be in agreement with this passage:

Romans Chapter 9

22​

What if God, willing to show his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering vessels of wrath fitted unto destruction:

23​

and that he might make known the riches of his glory upon vessels of mercy, which he afore prepared unto glory,

It's the vessels of mercy that are 'afore prepared', not the vessels of wrath.
 
Silverhair

Silverhair

Well-Known Member
kyredneck said:
Wow. Imagine that.

Ephesians Chapter 2

4​

but God, being rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,

5​

even when we were dead through our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace have ye been saved),
Click to expand...

So you actually do not care to learn anything do you KY.

You will just go on in blissful ignorance.

The way you post those verses you must think I have never seen them before.

Eph 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, To the saints in Ephesus, the faithful in Christ Jesus:

Why do you of the C/R philosophy have such a hard time with context? Could it be because context will show you that your view is false.
 
Silverhair

Silverhair

Well-Known Member
kyredneck said:
"The largest difference is that Augustine held to single predestination (God chooses the elect, but does not actively reprobate anyone - he simply "passes over" them), while Calvin held to double predestination (God choose the elect to salvation, and the reprobate to damnation)"

Which seems to be in agreement with this passage:

Romans Chapter 9

22​

What if God, willing to show his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering vessels of wrath fitted unto destruction:

23​

and that he might make known the riches of his glory upon vessels of mercy, which he afore prepared unto glory,

It's the vessels of mercy that are 'afore prepared', not the vessels of wrath.
Click to expand...

Really does not make any difference as the basis foundation is still pagan philosophy.
 
kyredneck

kyredneck

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Silverhair said:
The way you post those verses you must think I have never seen them before.

Eph 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, To the saints in Ephesus, the faithful in Christ Jesus:

Why do you of the C/R philosophy have such a hard time with context? Could it be because context will show you that your view is false.
Click to expand...

Are you dense? Pay attention to the context. They're Saints only because God made them alive!
 
Silverhair

Silverhair

Well-Known Member
kyredneck said:
Are you dense? Pay attention to the context. They're Saints only because God made them alive!
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You got the right. Once they had trusted in Christ Jesus they were born again, that's made alive if your not sure.

This verse explains how it works KY.
Eph 1:13 In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,

See the order hear, believe, made alive/born again.
 
Silverhair

Silverhair

Well-Known Member
kyredneck said:
Truth is truth, a fact is a fact, no matter where it comes from.
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True, pagan philosophy is pagan philosophy no mater where it comes from.

Putting lipstick on a pig does not change that it is still a pig.

Calling pagan philosophy the TULIP/DoG does not change that it is still pagan philosophy.
 
Silverhair

Silverhair

Well-Known Member
You do seem to be putting in a lot of effort to defend pagan philosophy KY.

Why not put that much effort into defending the word of God from pagan philosophy.
 
Aaron

Aaron

Member
Site Supporter
Silverhair said:
@Aaron you are like an old scratched record you just keep making the same noise over and over.

For something that your C/R's love to quote it seems you do not even know your own bible

Rom 8:28 And we know that God works all things together for the good of those who love Him, who are called according to His purpose.
Rom 8:29 For those God foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brothers.
Click to expand...
I know it well enough to know when you're being unfaithful with it. As anyone who can read can see, Paul isn't saying anything close to what you want him to be saying.
 
B

Brightfame52

Well-Known Member
Charlie24 said:
Anytime that Paul uses the word "faith or believe" he is referring to what Christ did on the Cross for us.

"His power to us-ward who BELIEVE" is the power through the Holy Spirit to live a holy life by what Christ did for us on the Cross.

"According to the working of His mighty power" is the works for us through our BELIEVEING in what Christ did for us on the Cross.
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How do they believe stated in this scripture ? Eph 1:19

19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe according to the working of his mighty power,
 
B

Brightfame52

Well-Known Member
Silverhair said:
Still has not changed BF. Still does not say what you want it to say.
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You have been shown the Truth of scripture yet wont receive it. Its simple right in the verse Paul says we believe according to the working of Gods Power.

Eph 1:19

19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe according to the working of his mighty power,
 
Silverhair

Silverhair

Well-Known Member
Aaron said:
I know it well enough to know when you're being unfaithful with it. As anyone who can read can see, Paul isn't saying anything close to what you want him to be saying.
Click to expand...

And there it is, I quote Paul and you say it is not what Paul said.

I do not have one of those C/R decoder rings so I just trust what the word of God actually says.
 
B

Brightfame52

Well-Known Member
Albert Barnes writes on Eph 1:19=20

19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,

20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,

And what is the exceeding greatness of his power - On the language used here, compare the notes at 2 Corinthians 4:17. There is much emphasis and energy of expression here, as if the apostle were laboring under the greatness of his theme, and wanted words to express the magnitude of his conception. This is the "third" thing which he was particularly desirous they should know - that they should be fully acquainted with the "power" of God in the salvation of people. He refers not merely to the power which he had evinced in their salvation, but also to what the gospel was "able" to accomplish, and which they might yet experience. The "power" referred to here as exercised toward believers does not refer to one thing merely. It is the whole series of the acts of power toward Christians which results from the work of the Redeemer. There was power exerted in their conversion. There would be power exerted in keeping them. There would be power in raising them up from the dead, and exalting them with Christ to heaven. The religion which they professed was a religion of "power." In all the forms and stages of it the power of God was manifested toward them, and would be until they reached their final inheritance.
To us-ward - Toward us, or in relation to us.

Who believe - Who are Christians.

According to the working of his mighty power - Margin, The might of his power. This should be taken with the clause in the following verse, "which he wrought in Christ;" and the meaning is, that the power which God has exerted in us is in accordance with the power which was shown in raising up the Lord Jesus. It was the proper result of that, and was power of a similar kind. The same power is requisite to convert a sinner which is demanded in raising the dead. Neither will be accomplished but by omnipotence (see the notes, Ephesians 2:5); and the apostle wished that they should be fully apprised of this fact, and of the vast "power" which God had put forth in raising them up from the death of sin. To illustrate this sentiment is one of his designs in the following verses; and, hence, he goes on to show that people before their conversion were "dead in trespasses and sins;" that they had no spiritual life; that they were the "children of wrath;" that they were raised up from their death in sin by the same power which raised the Lord Jesus from the grave, and that they were wholly saved by grace; Ephesians 2:1-10. In order to set this idea of the "power" which God had put forth in their regeneration in the strongest light, he goes into a magnificent description of the resurrection and exaltation of the Lord Jesus, and shows how that was connected with the renewing of Christians. God had set him over all things. He had put all things under his feet, and had made principalities and dominions everywhere subject to him. In this whole passage Ephesians 1:19-23; Ephesians 2:1-10, the main thing to be illustrated is the power which God has shown in renewing and saving his people; and the leading sentiment is, that the same power is evinced in that which was required to raise up the Lord Jesus from the dead, and to exalt him
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Barnes as myself understands that because the elect were dead in sin, God exerted His Power in bringing about their conversion experience, which entails regeneration and faith and repentance, and then to be kept in the faith, all kudos to the Power of God, in fact the same almighty Power that raised Jesus from the dead !
 
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