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Reconciling Paul and James, a beginning

Paleouss

Member
Greetings to all my brothers in Christ. Below I will attempt to use biblical reasoning to formulate an understanding of Paul and James regarding 'works'.

If every good gift is from the Lord (Jam 1:17) and there is “no good apart from [God]” (Psa 16:2), then it
follows that all that is experienced (Acts 14:17) and received by mankind that is good is from God.

But if a godly man were to do a good deed in which God is pleased, is that good that is done by that godly
man credited to the man or to God? If it is said that the man should be properly credited with the good,
for he is the agent of the deed, then not all good is from God, for the man is properly credited with the
good that is done. If God, then the good work cannot be properly credited and boasted upon by the godly
man (Luke 18:19, Luke 17:10, 1Cor 15:10). If the good work cannot be properly credited to the man,
then it follows that “it is God who works” (Phil 2:13) in the man (Heb 13:21, Phil 2:13) so that His will is
shown through the work of the man. If it is God who works within the man that leads to a good work
then it also follows that man’s part in the good deed was not the fruit that was the work, for the fruit that
was the work, is God’s. To say that all good things (James 1:17) and every good work (Phil 2:13) the man
could do comes from God is to say that every good work that is pleasing to God can be more accurately
stated as a fruitful-work (Phil 1:22, Col 1:10).

Now, it seems important to understand that what we speak of is a fruit that is a work and not a work that
produces fruit, although fruitful results naturally follow from this fruit that is a work. That is, there is a
distinction here between fruitful-work and work-fruitful. The former is describing a fruit that follows the
leading of the Spirit, a fruitful-work, the latter is describing that same work that produces fruitful results,
a work-fruit. To say that every fruitful-work that the man could do is from God is to say that every act
(i.e, work) that follows from the leading of the Spirit (1Cor 2:11) is a fruit (or a fruitful-work).

We also must be diligent to distinguish between a good work (not the Pauline use of the word) and a fruitful-work (the Pauline type). A good work is a work that appears good to the observer, maybe you, who has received a good from a man that appears to have done you a good deed. Yet, is this work following from an active faith and the leading of the Spirit within the man and therefore properly considered a fruitful-work? Or is that work that was a good for you following from fleshly desires that were laid before the man’s will by a worldly spirit, thus being a dead work (Heb 6:1)?

Regardless, each is a measure of the master in which one is serving at the time. God is pleased with the man’s relationship in the former and displeased with the man’s relationship in the latter, despite both being a good that you received. Further, in neither case can the man be properly credited with a good. In the former it is a fruitful-work and properly credited to God, in the ladder the good work follows from a sinful nature and the leading of a worldly spirit that lays before the man, selfish and self serving desires that he chooses. Thus, a good that is done to you cannot be properly credited and boasted by the man in either case.

Further, to say that fruitful works follow from the leading of the Spirit is to also say that fruitful-works
follow from a relationship of Spirit/man (Gal 6:8; John 14:17, 6:27). A fruitful work is therefore that
which follows from the relationship of Spirit/man in which the man has set the mind to the Spirit (Rom 8)
and chosen to be led by the Spirit. This then leads to the Spirit laying before the will of the man the
spiritual desires and inclinations that make up the motive toward a spiritual path of fruitful works pleasing
to the Lord-Father that the man freely chooses.

In this way, it can be seen how “faith apart from works is dead” (Jam 2:20 NKJ), work-fruits follow from a fruitful-work which follows from the leading of the Spirit, which comes from an active faith that works with the Spirit within. For a man that has an “active” faith (Jam 2:22 ESV) has chosen to be led by the Spirit in which fruitful-works naturally follow. The man that has an inactive faith turns his attention to worldly things and is not led by the Spirit, in this situation or that, and by not choosing to be led by the Spirit, fruitful works do not follow, it is only a good work (my sense of the word here, per above); as it is written, “for as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also faith apart from works is dead" (Jam 2:26). In other words, the man’s active faith is revealed through fruitful-works that are a gauge that measures the “character” (Rom 5:4) of his relationship with his master; “Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works” (Jam 2:18).

Keep seeking God's truth as if it were hidden treasure
 

JesusFan

Well-Known Member
Yes, just not salvation doctrine

If wish to know my take on dispensatioalism, check Gene Kim, Roy Bell and Robert Breaker.

Shawn
ALL of the bible though is inspirited for doctrines and practices, so were the 4 Gospels to us now, or just to ancient Israel then?
 

Paleouss

Member
Dispensationalism - James is not for us in regard of salvation.
Greetings KJB. Thank you for responding to my post. I hope your weekend was a blessed one. Peace to you brother.

I noticed in a couple of posts that you are a Dispensationalist. In your quote, above, you say James is not for us regarding salvation. This makes me wonder what your specific response is to my section of the OP below....
But if a godly man were to do a good deed in which God is pleased, is that good that is done by that godly
man credited to the man or to God? If it is said that the man should be properly credited with the good,
for he is the agent of the deed, then not all good is from God, for the man is properly credited with the
good that is done. If God, then the good work cannot be properly credited and boasted upon by the godly
man (Luke 18:19, Luke 17:10, 1Cor 15:10). If the good work cannot be properly credited to the man,
then it follows that “it is God who works” (Phil 2:13) in the man (Heb 13:21, Phil 2:13) so that His will is
shown through the work of the man. If it is God who works within the man that leads to a good work
then it also follows that man’s part in the good deed was not the fruit that was the work, for the fruit that
was the work, is God’s. To say that all good things (James 1:17) and every good work (Phil 2:13) the man
could do comes from God is to say that every good work that is pleasing to God can be more accurately
stated as a fruitful-work (Phil 1:22, Col 1:10).
To be transparent, my above is an attack on good works as a condition of salvation. It basically concludes that there is no "good work" that can be claimed by man. Therefore, "works" was never the focal point of salvation prior to Christ.

What do you think?

Grace be with you
 

KJB1611reader

Active Member
Greetings KJB. Thank you for responding to my post. I hope your weekend was a blessed one. Peace to you brother.

I noticed in a couple of posts that you are a Dispensationalist. In your quote, above, you say James is not for us regarding salvation. This makes me wonder what your specific response is to my section of the OP below....

To be transparent, my above is an attack on good works as a condition of salvation. It basically concludes that there is no "good work" that can be claimed by man. Therefore, "works" was never the focal point of salvation prior to Christ.

What do you think?

Grace be with you
Christ said do the commitments and give up everything.
 

Paleouss

Member
Christ said do the commitments and give up everything.
Thank you for your reply KJB.

I am still interested in your specific critiques of a section of my OP, I have copied below.
But if a godly man were to do a good deed in which God is pleased, is that good that is done by that godly
man credited to the man or to God? If it is said that the man should be properly credited with the good,
for he is the agent of the deed, then not all good is from God, for the man is properly credited with the
good that is done. If God, then the good work cannot be properly credited and boasted upon by the godly
man (Luke 18:19, Luke 17:10, 1Cor 15:10). If the good work cannot be properly credited to the man,
then it follows that “it is God who works” (Phil 2:13) in the man (Heb 13:21, Phil 2:13) so that His will is
shown through the work of the man. If it is God who works within the man that leads to a good work
then it also follows that man’s part in the good deed was not the fruit that was the work, for the fruit that
was the work, is God’s. To say that all good things (James 1:17) and every good work (Phil 2:13) the man
could do comes from God is to say that every good work that is pleasing to God can be more accurately
stated as a fruitful-work (Phil 1:22, Col 1:10).

Grace be to you brother
 

Aaron

Member
Site Supporter
I've been working on a series on Hebrews in another forum. I noticed Kim's diagram of Hebrews showing the Church to be the parenthetical addition to God's original plan, and created a diagram that is more true to the actual argument being made by Paul.

The Law is what was added. Sinai is the first parenthesis, and Calvary is the second. Christ's supremacy was always the plan, not a Jewish supremacy. It could use some tweaking.

1749481219940.png
 

Aaron

Member
Site Supporter
In other words, the man’s active faith is revealed through fruitful-works that are a gauge that measures the “character” (Rom 5:4) of his relationship with his master; “Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works” (Jam 2:18).
What you say is true, but we have to be careful that we aren't directing people to their own works for assurance of salvation. That would only lead true believers to despair, because sin is always with them in their doing of good.

James wrote to those who had become proud and complacent, and were respecters of persons. They are rightly sent to the mirror of the law, so they might see their sin and cry out, "Oh wretched man that I am! Who shall save me from the body of this death?" and sent running to the Throne of Grace.

Faith in the finished work of Christ, and in His Promises is the only hope of salvation. Abraham believed God. He didn't merely believe in Him. He believed Him, and it was counted to him for righteousness. And that was Paul's assurance.

2 Timothy 1:12 - For the which cause I also suffer these things: nevertheless I am not ashamed: for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day.
 

kyredneck

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
sin is always with them in their doing of good.

Romans Chapter 7

24​

Wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me out of the body of this death?

25​

I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then I of myself with the mind, indeed, serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
 
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