God the Father judged us in Christ Jesus for our sins, that is why he was the sin bearer upon that Cross
How was thje wrath of God appeased then while Jesus was upon that Cross? Was Jesus enduring exactly what?
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Did Jesus cease being God's Son on the Cross? 2
- Thread starter JesusFan
- Start date
The problem with your claim that "God the Father judged us in Christ Jesus for our sins..." is tgat it is nowhere in God's Word. It is an unbiblical claim. That is why all you can do is keep repeating the claim but provide no Biblical support.
Each of us have to decide who we will follow. I choose God and His Word.
The wrath of God does not need to be appeased. God is not a child. That idea is pagan.
Jesus was bearing our sin, enduring the wages or consequences of our sin ("sin begats death").
I suggest you spend a little more time in God's Word and a little less time in man's theories.
5 point Gillinist
Active Member
Isaiah 53:4-6 explicitly state this. Having seen your arguments against God's wrath NOT being what Christ died for, I can only come to the conclusion that "the bible doesn't use the word wrath" is the sum and substance of your argument. The bible speaks throughout it's pages of God's wrath against sinners for their sin. What does "Jesus was bearing our sin, enduring the wages or consequences of our sin" even mean in your worldview?
No, Isaiah 53:4-6 does not explicitly state that. You believe the verses teach that...but it is certainly not stated.
We need to be more careful when dealing with Scripture. Too many Calvinists try to take the short cut by saying their theory is "stated" in Scripture when it 8s not.
I believe that Jesus bearing our sins, enduring the consequences of our sins means exactly that. Jesus bore our sins. Sin begats death. Jesus suffered what our sins produce (the "wages" of sin).
I do not automatically add to those passages. I also do not deny passages explicitly stating that sins cannot be transferred, that God will forgive based on repentance, that God will never abandon the righteous, that God will not condemn the righteous, etc.
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So a Holy God getting upset and angry and having wrath towards sins and sinners is "pagan and childish then?"
Jesus had to partake of those cups of wrath and judgement, and if even the Holy Son of God was reacting to just how bad that would be, how much more shall lost sinners' face when experience divine wrath of a Holy God?
You refuse to accept that Christ while upon that Cross experienced and tasted all that the lost will in their final judgement state
But that is not in the Bible.
Why do you believe that Scripture is incomplete when it comes to something so important as redemption?
Yes, because I believe the Bible.
That is the difference between you and I.
I believe that God's Word is perfect and complete. When I read about redemption in the Bible I do n9t find it lacking. It makes perfect sense to me.
5 point Gillinist
Active Member
Sincere question, do you believe in hell? If so what do men suffer in hell? Is their suffering from God? Are they afflicted by God for their crimes against Him?
Yes, I believe in Hell.
Men suffer in Hell because the Light has come into the world and they rejected the Light.
They are not afflicted by God. On fact, it is quite the opposite. They are cast out.
Hell is a place prepared for Satan and his demons.
This is called the "Second Death".
It is Christ's judgment (the Father judges nobody, but all judgment has been given to the Son).
In other words, men go to Hell for rejecting Christ, not for sins.
They do remain in their sins, by their own choice (they reject the Light because their deeds are evil).
If you need passages to back up those statements let me know. They are paraphrased passages, but if you doubt they exist I'll point you to them.
Are they experiencing the wrath of God in that state?
Whoever believes in Jesus is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God. And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their works were evil.
When Jesus comes again all will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats.
To the wicked He will say, "Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me. Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me."
Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.
So they will suffer eternal wrath due to their sins then?
They will suffer God's wrath (they will be cast out). He'll is an everlasting punishment prepared for Satan and his demons. The lost will be cast out as well for not believing in Christ.