Name that Honorary Doctor!

I probably would have less dificulty with this topic if it had addressed men who accept honorary doctorates rather than IFB's who do such. The attempt here was not to discredite those who accept such but to discredit IBF's in general.

 

but Paul33,

you've decided which "worldly practice" denotes hypocrisy. According to your logic, why is it not then wrong for these men to attain an earned doctorate? Could that not be called a form of trying to attain worldly recognition through higher education?

I mean, we cannot completely abstain from all practices which the world also participates in. They aren't all wrong.

 

I couldn't help being amused thinking of the good Reverend Doctor (Dr., Dr., Dr., Dr.) Smith going to the pulpit with his mouth full of half chewed sage (genus salvia) and sputtering it out all over the folks sitting in the front row. No wonder he slaughtered the Queen's English!

PTL for typos. </font>[/QUOTE]I may have been wrong and gave the wrong genus. More likely it was a genus of the nightshade family, Nicotiana.

 

Whereas there are those men who flaunt their degrees, even worthless scrap paper, there are those with legitimate and well-deserved degrees who distain the titles. They are truly humble men who care more about pleasing and serving God than having their egos stroked. For example, Jay Adams has impeccable credentials, honors, achievements and reputation. He has taught at Westminster Seminary as well as lectured throughout the world including UCLA, Vienna, etc. He was head of the D.Min. program for Westminster-West in CA. He has authored around 80 books plus numerous articles. Having made a few doctors and possessing an earned Ph.D., he deserves being called doctor, IMHO. Yet, he has rebuked people more than once for calling him Dr. Adams. He said, “My name is Jay--call me Jay, not this Dr. Adams stuff!”

 

With all respect, Paul, I would suggest you may be painting with an overly broad brush. I suggest you would have found few fundamantalists who had a problem with Westminster, when Machen, et. al. founded it. The same with SBTS and SWBTS, at their founding by Boyce, et. al., and Carroll et.al., respectively. In fact, I would suggest more had a problem with Princeton in the 1990's over doctrines such as Calvinism, covenant theology, etc., than ever did over what is the nature of Scripture, when Warfield patrolled the grounds. The problem, if there was one, and I think there was, came when the influences of the more 'liberal' (read 'modernist,) types that took control of the General Assembly in the name of so-called 'scholarship'. With the passing of Warfield, and the marginalizing of Machen, this was possible, and eventually even led to the 'defrocking' of Machen, because he took a stand. With the SBTS, the passing of Boyce, Broaddus and Manly, Jr. signified a similar change. Once the door opened, it became difficult, if not impossible to shut it again. I think that we can well see this even today. Or some seem to, anyway, for right or wrong. Aside from the LCMS and the SBC, can any think of any group or institution that has moved back more to the position(s) of the 'founders'? I again, suggest the issue was not scholarship, per se, but the 'quasi-scholarship' that starts with the presupposition of 'God has NOT spoken', and proceeds from there.
As to degrees, I am the same individual I was before I ever went to college, I go by Ed or Eddie, both then and now. But I think it is not necessarily 'bragging' to earn or be conferred a degree. But I think before criticizing someone's, one might find out from whence it came and what is the significance of such. I once told a close friend of mine, who has an earned Th.D., and I knew from whence, "Don't forget, I knew you when you were just plain 'Ron'."
In His grace,
Ed

Ed Sutton, B.A.(hcl); N.D. from S.B.P.

 

Better than the founders. In a great way the Worldwide Church of God did. When Armstrong left it took a huge shift in the right direction to become orthodox and many memebrs left at that time.

 

It's deceit from hell.

 

Great to read this about Jay Adams, paidagogos, and I'm not surprised. I've read his books with great profit.

And John R. Rice had five honorary degrees, but would introduce himself and refer to himself as simply "John R. Rice" in person and on the radio.

Whether the degree or title is "earned" or "honorary" I believe the humility should be exactly the same.

 

It's deceit from hell. </font>[/QUOTE]There is absolutely nothing in the Bible which forbids us to honor each other. Personally I find such statements as these by Paul33 and gb93433 to be pretty judgmental. Whether the degree be honorary or earned, the recipient should have exactly the same humility. You men should be ashamed of yourselves for uttering statements like "dishonest," "hypocritical" and "deceit from Hell" about good godly men.

When I think of my wife's home church pastor, I resent such statements as you men have uttered. He is a wonderful, godly IBF pastor who was given an honorary degree. He did not change in the slightest--still introduces himself as Ralph, did not change the church stationary, and gets embarassed if you call him "Dr."

I admire him tremendously, in spite of his lack of advanced degrees, and I would stack his humble service for the Lord up against any pastor you know. Big church? No, big heart. I honestly believe I would not be on the mission field today if not for the tremendous help this man gave me on the deputation trail. In my mind he deserves a dozen honorary doctorates.

 

Thanks, John of Japan.

 

It's deceit from hell. </font>[/QUOTE]There is absolutely nothing in the Bible which forbids us to honor each other. Personally I find such statements as these by Paul33 and gb93433 to be pretty judgmental. Whether the degree be honorary or earned, the recipient should have exactly the same humility. You men should be ashamed of yourselves for uttering statements like "dishonest," "hypocritical" and "deceit from Hell" about good godly men.

When I think of my wife's home church pastor, I resent such statements as you men have uttered. He is a wonderful, godly IBF pastor who was given an honorary degree. He did not change in the slightest--still introduces himself as Ralph, did not change the church stationary, and gets embarassed if you call him "Dr."

I admire him tremendously, in spite of his lack of advanced degrees, and I would stack his humble service for the Lord up against any pastor you know. Big church? No, big heart. I honestly believe I would not be on the mission field today if not for the tremendous help this man gave me on the deputation trail. In my mind he deserves a dozen honorary doctorates. </font>[/QUOTE]I think Proverbs 27:2 puts it in a nutshell: "Let another man praise thee, and not thine own mouth; a stranger, and not thine own lips." We are to honor those worthy of honor but some tinhorn doesn't need to be tooting his own horn. Give honor where honor is due and not where it's not.

 

Amen and amen.

 

No, what I am up in arms about is how you clearly target independent Baptists over and over again in this thread and on the Baptist Board.

Your OP clearly says, "Independent Fundamentalists are great hypocrites when they attempt to look like the world by granting each other 'phony' degrees under the guise of 'honor.' They claim to have a different value system, but their's is still motivated by vanity and pride."

In this thread you clearly target IBFs like myself and almost all of my supporting churches, and you clearly target honorary degrees as "phony."

I pray daily for the pastors of 49 supporting churches. Of those, as far as I know, 27 IBF pastors have no honorary degrees. Five have earned doctorates. Eight have honorary doctorates, and I would not characterize a single one of these men as arrogant, fake, or deceitful.

If it were in my power to take away their honorary degrees, I would not take away a single one. You've already heard about my wife's pastor. I knew Pastor P. in TX had an honorary degree, so I asked him about it because no one called him "Dr." He said, "Naw, I don't pay much attention to that degree." I talked to my home church pastor about it also. He turned down the first honorary degree he was offered, but a wise pastor told him he should accept the next one since it was a friend who simply wanted to honor him. Dr. F. in IN and Dr. C. in IL are good friends and godly, humble men. The other three men are pastors of large churches, and I don't know them as well, but they are good men who love the Lord, and not arrogant at all.

When you insult IFB pastors with honorary degrees you insult these men, and yes I resent it. Paul33, I like you and have nothing against you, but I am praying that you will learn tact and graciousness, so that you do not come across as insulting to those you disagree with.

What would have been so hard in makomg your OP general, rather than targeting a specific group? Or why could you not have said, "I know there are many men who deserve honorary degrees, but here are circumstances where they produce arrogance."

 

As long as you indiscriminately target the IFB movement I will be offended. I am an unashamed part of that movement, even with its foibles. As soon as you learn to target the specific part of that movement you have problems with, and start your OP or post by saying, "Such and such Bible college does...," I will cease being offended.

Learn to use a sniper rifle and not an A-bomb.