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Name that Honorary Doctor!

Discussion in '2006 Archive' started by Paul33, May 25, 2005.

  1. Rob't K. Fall

    Rob't K. Fall New Member

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    I believe we have at least two problems here. One problem is a matter of modern English language usage. The other problem is a matter of modern American ("Baptist" and secular) culture and custom.

    The first problem is English has no easy grammatical way to show respect. I minored in German, lo many moons ago. That language has the du (familiar) and Sie (formal/polite) forms available. French has has tu and vous.

    When ministering to the Russian Baptist community in Metro Sacramento, I follow the Russian forms. Russians aren't big on Mr., Mrs, or Miss. However, by simply addressing a person by given name and patronymic (Yuri Kostantinovich, Gregori Vasilivich, Anna Nikolievna, Bronislava Georgievna) and using the appropriate second person singular pronoun I have shown the proper amount of respect.

    My point is modern English only has the single you form.

    I have no doubt John of Japan can give us chapter and verse on the intricacies of the Japanese language on this.

    In 2005, addressing someone by an honorific (Mr., Mrs., Miss, Brother, Sister, ect.) is seen as slightly old fashioned unless you're the New York Times or someone in a service capacity. And the latter is only true if their employer insists on not following the next. This problem I call A Presumption of a Familiar Relationship. As I don't know Paul33 all that well, I would not presume to simply address him as Paul. Depending on the circumstances, I would probably address him as Brother 33 or Brother Paul.

    Living as I do at a crossroads, I've met a good representation of IFB preachers and missionaries(at least of the FBF/Northern variety). To the best of my knowledge, John of Japan has described these men and the way they wear their "doctorates". Though no doubt we still have those amoung us who Our Lord warned us about in Luke 20:46
    So, in some cases, what's new?
     
  2. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    Well said, Bro. Rob't K. Fall.

    Because of the egalitarian nature of our American culture, Americans are often overly familiar with those they ought to honor.

    And yes, the keigo ("polite language") of Japanese is incredibly complicated, which is one of the things that makes it so hard to learn.
     
  3. MikeinGhana

    MikeinGhana New Member

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    I like your analogy, John, of the rifle and the A bomb. I think too often men and women on this board wield the bomb instead of being more specific in their speech. There are so many godly men with honorary doctorate degrees that you never hear about. Why? Because they do not toot their horn. The bad apples, so to speak, get all the publicity.

    I have an earned doctorate and am a dissertation away from another. The title, in my case, gives me credibility in my ministry in certain situations. I do not go around calling myself Dr. T, apart from using it on official documents for unspoken, yet obvious reasons.

    Paul33, if you have a problem with the attitude of certain men, name them instead of shooting a scatter gun.
     
  4. Paul33

    Paul33 New Member

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    John and Mike,

    I will admit that because of what I have witnessed in the circle of independent Baptists that I run with, I have made the mistake of speaking to that issue without proper clarification.

    Therefore, please accept my apology for painting with too broad of a paint brush. I am very pleased to know that there are many in the independent Baptist movement that are kind and humble.

    Even at NBBC there are kind and gentle souls.

    But no one can deny that the proliferation of honoary doctorates among the brethren may appear to others as pride.

    For the sake of the weaker brother, wouldn't these men and schools do better by stopping such an activity?

    Obviously we disagree, but I think that using the title "doctor" by those who haven't earned them leans more to pride than honor.

    Thanks for the discussion.
     
  5. Paul33

    Paul33 New Member

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    One mark of humility is being able to laugh at oneself, admit one's foibles, and listen to criticism.

    It seems that some of my independent fundamental brothers protesteth too much. ;)
     
  6. paidagogos

    paidagogos Active Member

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    Yes, you're right about humility but it's a two-edged sword cutting both ways. ;)
     
  7. Don

    Don Well-Known Member
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    I'm betting that some of the independent fundamental brothers do, indeed, protest too much.

    However, let us all make sure we don't have any beams in our own eyes.

    And I love the "sniper rifle vs. a-bomb" reference. Gotta use that somewhere....
     
  8. gb93433

    gb93433 Active Member
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    It's a good thing the U.S. and state governments does not honor honorary medical degrees to get a license. Imagine the crooks we would se if they did!
     
  9. Plain Old Bill

    Plain Old Bill New Member

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    You can also pick you own friends and the company you keep.There are people I work with who I do not associate with outside of work for a variety of reasons.If you or anyone is in an association which has some prideful folks and it disturbs them,leave them to thier selves don't lend your association to them it gives them credibility and validates them.Ignore them,don't include them in your conversations,they are not as nearly worked up about you as you are about them. The worst thing is at the end of the day when you are getting all worked up about somebody and have used up all of your energy,they have'nt given you the first thought let alone a second thought.
     
  10. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    Well said, Plain Old Bill.
     
  11. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    Thank you for the apology. You are entirely forgiven.

    Alas, though, you added several caveats. My Dad used to say, "Give me no buts. You're not a billy goat." :cool:
     
  12. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    Feel free to use my weapon. :cool:

    You know what, though, if someone said, "All those Southern Baptists are liberals," or, "All those Reformed Baptists are anti-evangelism," you would hear some protests! :D I don't object to criticism. The IBF movement certainly has our share of targets. I just object to mass characterizations. Use a smart bomb, not a bunker buster! ;)
     
  13. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    There are too many pages here to review them all before posting . Did anyone mention A. W. Pink ? He tolerated being called Doctor Pink for some time . But while preaching/evangelizing/pastoring in Australia in the late 1920's he put a stop to that honorific title . I think he had more knowledge and wisdom than many with theological doctorates . ( Just like his hero Charles Spurgeon who declined to be called Rev. in the 1860's ). But he thought it just had the tendency to puff one up .
     
  14. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    I don't think anyone mentioned Pink. Interesting to know that about him.

    Another one no one mentioned is Dr. Wilbur W. Smith. He had not earned graduate degrees, but was one of the first professors at Fuller Seminary, and was a great scholar.

    I don't know if Dr. Smith cared if he were called "Dr.," but he is all over the Internet as Dr. Smith. Just something to think about. Honorary doctorates for deserving men are nothing new.
     
  15. Paul33

    Paul33 New Member

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    For deserving men!

    Anyone like to define that one? [​IMG]
     
  16. Paul33

    Paul33 New Member

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    My original thread. Notice the "when."

    The "when" speaks to the motivation of the person who accepts an honorary doctorate. To those who accept honorary doctorates for the right reason, they aren't included in the above thread. For those who accept them to add credibility to the school they are employed at, they become, IMO, fair game for scrutiny.

    Just wanted to point out that my original thread wasn't as bombastic as some have made it out to be! [​IMG]
     
  17. paidagogos

    paidagogos Active Member

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    John, it is interesting that you mentioned Dr. Wilbur M. Smith, not to be confused with the psychotherapist, Dr. Wilbur I. Smith, or the novelist, Dr. Wilbur Smith from Africa. To the best of my knowledge, Dr. Wilbur M. Smith had no degree of any kind although he did attend Moody Bible Institute and the University of Wooster; he did not take a degree. Yet, he taught at the college level for over thirty years. He taught at the respected Moody Bible Institute as well as the highly regarded Fuller Theological Seminary and Trinity Evangelical Divinity School. When appointed to Fuller Seminary, he plainly stated that he had not attended seminary and did not hold a theological degree. Obviously, he was not accepted for his academic titles.

    Dr. Smith demonstrated how God could use a man without formal degrees who is willing to work and study. Wilbur Smith was a self-educated man. He was an equal among his peers, who were seminary-made doctors. IMHO, he was highly deserving of the title. However, few are willing to do what he did and achieved to become educated today.

    I am reminded of another Dr. Smith—Dr. Noel Smith, late editor of the Baptist Bible Tribune. Noel Smith dropped out of school in the eighth grade when his father died. He was largely self-educated, although he may have later attended a Bible institute. When Dr. Noel Smith came to BJU to preach and lecture, the Bible faculty, many with earned doctorates, sat up and listened. Here is another deserving man who wore his honorary doctor’s gown and beret well with humility, honor and dignity.
     
  18. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    Well said, Paidagogos. I think with this post you have defined "deserving men." (Thanks for the correction on Dr. Smith's name. [​IMG] )
     
  19. Paul33

    Paul33 New Member

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    Some of you aren't going to like this assessment, but here goes anyway.

    I did a review of one edition of the Sword of the Lord to see how many doctors there are.

    Here's what I discovered.

    Page 1

    Dr. Shelton Smith
    Dr. Curtis Hutson
    Dr. Jack Trieber
    But when publishing an article by the deceased John Roach Straton, there was no "Dr." in front of his name.

    Page 2

    Dr. John R. Rice
    Dr. Curtis Hutson
    Dr. Shelton Smith
    Dr. Marlon Smith
    Dr. Alvin Byers
    Dr. Viola Waldon
    Dr. George Willis
    Guy King
    Mary Burns

    I felt kind of sorry for Guy and Mary, not having doctorates and being listed with these other great men and women of distinction.

    Page 3

    Dr. Earl Jessup

    Page 4

    Dr. Tom Wallace
    Dr. Wally Beebe
    Benjamin Franklin
    Bob Cooke

    Apparently Benjamin Franklin's honorary doctorates were overlooked.

    Page 5

    Helen Keller - Oops, forgot her honorary doctorates, too.
    Dr. Mel Efaw
    Dr. W.B. Riley
    Dr. Rice

    Dr. Shelton Smith
    Rick Fox
    These last two were in an advertisement together.

    Page 6

    G. Campbell Morgan - no doctorate? Do you see a pattern developing here? Apparently only honorary doctorates given to independent Baptist pastors qualify. Straton, Morgan, Franklin and Keller are left out in the cold.

    Dr. Hugh Pile

    Page 7

    William Jennings Bryan - neglected to honor him with "Dr."

    Dr. John McNeill
    Dr. Richard Skiver
    Dr. Al Lacey
    Dr. Mark Sigstad
    Rev. David Ballert

    Well, apparently Rev. is an appropriate title for Baptist ministers.

    Page 8

    Dr. John N. Hamblin
    Dr. Shelton Smith
    Dr. Tom Malone
    Pastor Darren Tharp
    Dr. Clyde Box

    Pastor is also an acceptable title.

    Page 9

    Dr. Paul Chappell
    Dr. R. B. Ouellette

    Page 10

    Dr. Roy Thompson

    Bro. Ron Gents
    Bro. LeRoy DeMasellis
    Bro. Wendell Rogers
    Bro. Raymond Miller

    Brother is also an acceptable title.

    Advertisement followed with 6 doctors and 3 non-doctors.

    Page 13

    Even the women are now called Dr.
    Dr. Cathy Rice
    Dr. Viola Walden

    Ad for Midwestern Baptist College
    Dr. Tom Malone
    Dr. Joyce Malone

    Isn't that precious! They're both doctors! Is Dr. Joyce Dr. Tom's wife?

    The rest were ads for schools headed by doctors.

    Conclusion:

    I am very impressed with the amount of esteem and honor given to these fine men and women. Clearly the impression left with me after reading the Sword of the LORD is that God has many highly educated and talented men and women working for him in independent Baptist churches. The world would be so lucky to have such a highly educated group of men and women working for it!

    The vast majority of those listed in SOTL were doctors, except for Benjamin Franklin, Helen Keller, Straton and Morgan, and a few others that apparently have not applied themselves.
     
  20. Paul33

    Paul33 New Member

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    I had the privilege to look over the Evangelical Free Church of America's directory. This denomination prides itself on having an educated clergy. One must have an M.Div. to have ordination credentials with them.

    I was very disappointed in what I discovered. The vast majority of these men were not doctors. Clearly they are sloughing off in comparision to the clergy who frequent the SOTL. This cannot be a good sign for the EFCA since their ministers do not care to expend the energy to become doctors.

    This is very disconcerting.
     
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