To Pastors in California- Question about AB506

Hello. I'm sorry to bother you all but my research has gotten no where. Thx for your time.
I understand AB506 law pertaining to Sunday School/ youth/Nursery workers. I understand fingerprinting is required for church liability insurance we're looking into. We're a small church that started growing so have a small nursery. A man lives on the grounds too, does he or the pastor need to be able to pass a background check in order for us to get liability insurance? To comply w/AB506 it doesn't appear so but not sure about liability insurance requirements. Just wondering how much work this is. We are all volunteers. Thanks so much

1) what does your insurance company say?

2) Wouldn't surprise me if those who demanded this law - also believes in separation of church and state!

Salty said:

1) what does your insurance company say?

2) Wouldn't surprise me if those who demanded this law - also believes in separation of church and state!

Click to expand...

Thank you. "I understand fingerprinting is required for church liability insurance we're looking into" we have no insurance

Deena said:

Hello. I'm sorry to bother you all but my research has gotten no where. Thx for your time.
I understand AB506 law pertaining to Sunday School/ youth/Nursery workers. I understand fingerprinting is required for church liability insurance we're looking into. We're a small church that started growing so have a small nursery. A man lives on the grounds too, does he or the pastor need to be able to pass a background check in order for us to get liability insurance? To comply w/AB506 it doesn't appear so but not sure about liability insurance requirements. Just wondering how much work this is. We are all volunteers. Thanks so much

Click to expand...

If the law is interfering with the worship services, doctrine, etc. of the church, then it is a violation of the separation of church and state. However, what you described sounds more like a safety issue, and if so the insurance company and the government are proper in requiring this. The government (and insurance company) are within their rights to ask for a safe building, the proper license for bus drivers, etc.

In this case, the requirements do not sound burdensome to me, so if I were the pastor I'd go ahead and do it. I don't know how much work it would be, but it doesn't sound like a lot, and I would go ahead and get it done. Proper insurance is vital in today's society.

Our church does background checks on anyone who works with kids, and each of us has to sign a child safety policy. This will provide legal protection, and be very valuable if we are ever sued for something to do with kids. Nowadays that is quite possible.

I am all for safety, including children.
I am opposed to to extreme govt interference.
Churches need to protect kids.
But if the govt wants churches to fingerprint workers - then they can pay for it!

This is a good, informative site: AB506 Resources.

It covers the issue of one on one times with children. Our policy is that (1) no adult should be alone with a child not a relative, and (2) no adult should be alone in a restroom with a child not a relative.

Years ago we had an incident where an adult was alone with a child in a church classroom, and was acting inappropriately. The adult was immediately caught, and the police called. But if not handled properly, such an incident can actually destroy the church: lawsuits, criminal referral, etc.

Salty said:

I am all for safety, including children.
I am opposed to to extreme govt interference.
Churches need to protect kids.
But if the govt wants churches to fingerprint workers - then they can pay for it!

Click to expand...

I think that was about the insurance company rather than the government, but I agree with you as the statement stands.

I have no problem with the insurance company making such a policy!

Church Mutual Insurance (what we had) has guidelines for those working with children. So SS teachers, Awana, youth ministry all had "hoops" to jump thru. One nice fellow volunteered and when given the forms to complete, "disappeared". Quit coming to our church totally. We felt that was a blessing!

[Scarlett - no longer a moderator]

I've been fingerprinted more times than you can shake a stick at. Twice for two different Christian schools, once for a charter school, and THREE times for my public school when the guy doing the fingerprinting couldn't make mine "take". That's six times - $60.

At church, my fingerprints at the state were accepted and I just had to have the background check done.

I'm all for this with ANYONE who works with children in any capacity. There are horrid people both in and out of the church.

John of Japan said:

If the law is interfering with the worship services, doctrine, etc. of the church, then it is a violation of the separation of church and state. However, what you described sounds more like a safety issue, and if so the insurance company and the government are proper in requiring this. The government (and insurance company) are within their rights to ask for a safe building, the proper license for bus drivers, etc.

In this case, the requirements do not sound burdensome to me, so if I were the pastor I'd go ahead and do it. I don't know how much work it would be, but it doesn't sound like a lot, and I would go ahead and get it done. Proper insurance is vital in today's society.

Our church does background checks on anyone who works with kids, and each of us has to sign a child safety policy. This will provide legal protection, and be very valuable if we are ever sued for something to do with kids. Nowadays that is quite possible.

Click to expand...

Thanks so much! Makes sense

Scarlett O. said:

[Scarlett - no longer a moderator]

I've been fingerprinted more times than you can shake a stick at. Twice for two different Christian schools, once for a charter school, and THREE times for my public school when the guy doing the fingerprinting couldn't make mine "take". That's six times - $60.

At church, my fingerprints at the state were accepted and I just had to have the background check done.

I'm all for this with ANYONE who works with children in any capacity. There are horrid people both in and out of the church.

Click to expand...

Yes so true. Honestly the only dangerous person is our pastor with his violent background. He's not saved. He couldn't pass a background check. I pray God will take him away, he's not saved. I've never had to look into anyone's background until he scared us two Sunday School Teachers. We live 1 hr away from only 2 churches so can't be picky. All the other board members are 100% for us and our Sunday School, he is not. He's trying to break it up so I'm slowly introducing the law of fingerprints. We would never let him alone with any of the kids. He's old so hopefully, our church is growing, we'll get a few others able to preach. I'm glad you are into safety with your kids. We took the 4 hr safety course today online, now I'm going to introduce background checks. I'm concerned of being liable if something were to happen so heeding the law, since it feels like common sense to me, is best. Iv'e learned the law passed here in Calif, two mandatory reporters together at all times with the kids. If our Pastor goes off, yelling, we are not in Sunday School again, I will have already passed around this law to the other board members. We have a growing church with solid christians, I feel God will use them. Anyhow thank you again Scarlett. I guess this thread can be closed but you aren't a mod anymore

Deena said:

I guess this thread can be closed

Click to expand...

Think this is an important topic to leave open for others to read (and heed the necessity for such investigating) if you don't mind. If it helps one child . . .

It's getting really bad at church once Pastor realized he may be fingerprinted. He's trying to destroy our Sunday School class right now. Which is growing like mad. If there are no kids, no one will ask Pastor to get fingerprinted. I now realize, is a topic that could end up being a real doozie for some churches opening up a real can of worms. Anyhow it's probably best to keep it open I suppose. God bless you all

Why would he be concerned about being fingerprinted. The pastor should be the first to do so as an example for the entire staff!
Unless he has something to hide!
At the moment, I would suggest another staff member (or if there are none - a senior member of the church) sit down with him and have a little talk about this. If the pastor does not budge, then the elder needs to take another man or 2 - and if they still is not effective - then the pastor needs to come before the church - and if necessary - time to dismiss the pastor.

Scarlett O. said:

[Scarlett - no longer a moderator]

I've been fingerprinted more times than you can shake a stick at. Twice for two different Christian schools, once for a charter school, and THREE times for my public school when the guy doing the fingerprinting couldn't make mine "take". That's six times - $60.

At church, my fingerprints at the state were accepted and I just had to have the background check done.

I'm all for this with ANYONE who works with children in any capacity. There are horrid people both in and out of the church.

Click to expand...

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

Salty I agree with you. God Bless you. You sound like a true christian, a great pastor (I assume you are)
Pastor verbally assaulted us two Sunday School teachers with a lie about our parents complaining about us. There are only 6 parents, all supported that activity wanting to help to bring stuff. It was BS. She and I head the Sunday School. Then he Demanding us break the law by forcing us to walk with him to his easter service to hear his sermon. Apparently against us as it was about the pagan orgins of Easter. I informed we are teaching on the Resurrection, I have no use to hear your pagan sermon. I am a Christian

We had way too many kids on easter, we can't have one teacher with them all alone. Ages 2-13. By law, AB506, we can't by law, leave one teacher alone with the students anyhow. Yet Pastor repeatedly demanded one of us risk the childrens safety to hear his sermon. So angry & entitled to belittle us, it was scary. Al over an egg hunt, side activity to the Resurrection lesson. I called my husband who showed up pretty fast. My un-saved husband was very concerned so stayed with our class. I did a background check and wow, this Pastor a bigtime violent criminal ex cop who went out on disability 2x. Yes, 2x. A con man. I hired a PI who is so concerned he wants to speak to the board members when the full background check comes back. Sadly, I've already notified my parents with limited copies of his criminal convictions and what transpired on Easter, all are supportive. Their kids love to come to Sunday School. No-one even knew about his background, he started the church

Not one call though I've relayed what transpired on Easter. I've given his criminal background to them (you can sign up online at the Criminal courts, it isn't indepth). So far, crickets. The two I approached, one is the fellow preacher, don't seem to want to know. In fact, he defended him. "He has emotional problems so went out with PTSD due to combat" Okay then how did he get hired on at a sheriffs dept as a deputy afterwards?
He lied. He scammed. He conned the taxpayers by deceitfully being hired, withholding information, with the plan to again, go out on disability" THEN he got convicted of serious bodily harm ALL WHILE already on probation" I got mad at him and said, you know this is a wolf! I didn't appreciate being manipulated by another wolf. I could care less if he too has emotional issues. He's unsaved, lifting up a wolf, going against the christians.
Pastor is still going after us Sunday School teachers in the board meeting, openly, without anyone supporting him. Crickets. All know it's odd. Board Members are so kind to me, giving compliments, clearly want me to stay but they want a wolf to stay too. I think if they had another Pastor, they would outst him but...I believe 9 out of 10 churches are headed by wolves. We are in the end times. I'll just continue to expose him. I was advised by a very mature christian person, someone who was very high up at Grace Community Church with john macarthur( also my ex pastor) to leave. I don't want to leave my kids and their parents but may attend and join a church 1 hr away who has a night service. We really need this Pastor replaced then I'll start a women's study at the Community Center. It's near the church. We need true bible preaching, our Pastor quotes a few verses but they are just side-notes.
We'll see the ending. Even a brand new believer knows a wolf like this so it's easy to know what to do. Expose him. To the parents, to the Board Members, to all who will listen. Tell him no. Do not allow him to make decisions about our ministry or be involved at all. I'll just obey. Nothing else I can really do...I can't just go preach a sermon, I'm female. My prayer is GOD will take care of it, I know he will. He put him there for his good purposes, I can't deny that. The outcome will be whatever he choses it to be imho. Anyhow, sorry this is so long. Thx for letting me type this. I understand 100% if this is deleted, it's fine. Just please send it to Salty first will ya. GOD bless you all, thanks for letting me be here ♡ †

First thank you for your kind words about me.
My goodness- that (so-called) pastor needs to be gone yesterday.

The elders (deacons - or whoever) need to get involved.

You could anonymity inform the local media.......

That's a great idea. I don't know if I want to contact the media, our house just recorded yesterday. I'd be the new person in the area going against him. I should probably wait. The other preacher wants me to work with this criminal pastor regarding the Sunday School. I was shocked. I gave him printouts of his criminal history, those I got free from the Courts. He said it was a he said she said on Easter. I said no, there are two of us witnesses. And I told him, "You know I'm telling the truth. His own conduct, you've seen it"

He said "He is your pastor" he is the head of the sunday school. I said no, a church is ran by a group of Elders, not one man. Nor does he qualify to be Pastor, by the biblical definition, he's a wolf. He even started getting aggressive with me...wow. No we do not negotiate with wolves.

I will eventually post "Pastors" criminal history on the local Facebook Page. I won't do it now, I'm a little afraid of him. They pastored together leaving another church in shamble. I spoke with a Pastor who is 1 hr away. I'l visit his church. Great bible based sermons. No ordaining women or children. It's called Landmark Missionary Baptist. It's a 1 hr drive once we move but worth it. Anyhow hope all you Pastors are stranding tall, it's a jungle out there. This world has changed so much, I fear for us all but need to get back to trusting GOD. This is his doing, he controls who he puts in place, it's his battle.