Can We Observe the the Jewish Sabbath still as a Church or person?

Salty said:

1) not sure what you are asking but I will answer both ways
A) Would it be permitted? OT law put the limit of travel to 2,000 cubits (0.6 miles)
B) Yes, Driving is a way to relax for me.

2) How is driving different from driving -personally, I prefer driving (to relax) than walking!

3) sounds good --- but on the the other hand - visiting family - to relax

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I believe the limitation was because it took activity to walk.

Eternally Grateful said:

would it though?

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Depending on who you are talking to, yes. There are elevators that stop at every floor to keep people from pushing a button, creating a spark, and starting a “fire” on the sabbath. I’m sure firing on six cylinders at 2,000 rpm would be an egregious offense.

Eternally Grateful said:

Driving a couple of hours is far different than walking a couple of hours..

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Without going to the extreme extent that the Jewish rabbis do, I agree with you.

Eternally Grateful said:

Visit family, Visit friends. Watch movies. read a book.. something to not only rest my body, but my mind..

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Ben1445 said:

Depending on who you are talking to, yes. There are elevators that stop at every floor to keep people from pushing a button, creating a spark, and starting a “fire” on the sabbath. I’m sure firing on six cylinders at 2,000 rpm would be an egregious offense.

Without going to the extreme extent that the Jewish rabbis do, I agree with you.

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I agree 100% But remember, they added so much to Gods law. and called it law..

atpollard said:

Yes and no.

YES … there is no verse that explicitly states “Sunday (the first day of the week) is the Lord’s Day.”

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Nor is there any verse that even implies that the first day of the week is referred to as the "Lord's Day" in scripture.

atpollard said:

NO … Jesus Christ (the Lord) was resurrected on the first day of the week [Mark 16:9]

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I don't see how that implies it's the "Lord's Day".

However, If any day could be considered the "Lord's Day, it would be the Sabbath because in Matthew 12:8, The Messiah says that He is "Lord of the Sabbath.”

atpollard said:

and following that event, Jesus’ followers often gathered on the first day of the week [Acts 20:7, 1 Corinthians 16:2] …

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There are only two scriptures which say that anyone got together on the first day of the week; John 20:19 and Acts 20:7.

As for 1 Corinthians 16:2, nothing is said about anyone being together on the first day of the week.

Thus we end up with two days for a meeting on the first day. So I don't think you can legitimately say , based on 2 instances, that "Jesus’ followers often [my emphasis] gathered on the first day of the week", especially since scripture never again says that anyone assembled on that day, much less that it was because of or in honor of the resurrection. And at the time of the first instance, the disciples didn't even believe yet that the resurrection had taken place at the time when they got together.

Salty said:

from above YES … there is no verse that explicitly states “Sunday (the first day of the week) is the Lord’s Day.”

and no verse explicitly states the doctrine of the Trinity!

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That is a bit of an apples to oranges comparison.

If you or I were challenged to prove that what the “doctrine of the Trinity” teaches is true based on scripture, we (you and I) could certainly do so. Therefore, the fact that the WORD “Trinity” does not appear does not mean that the teaching about the “Trinity” does not appear.


In contrast, if you or I were challenged to prove that “Sunday” belonged to Jesus in some special way that Tuesday does not belong to Jesus based exclusively on scripture, we would be much harder pressed to prove that what makes Sunday special is more than “Church tradition” and the fact that Jesus was raised on a Sunday. For that matter, why is Thursday/Friday not special since that is the day that Jesus died to redeem us?

I also believe that references to the “Lord’s Day” in scripture are speaking of Sunday … but that must be inferred in a way that is far less clear than the truths of the Trinity.

Yet, there are those churches who do NOT believe in the Trinity (No, I am Not one of them!)

Key word Interpretation

Salty said:

from above YES … there is no verse that explicitly states “Sunday (the first day of the week) is the Lord’s Day.”

and no verse explicitly states the doctrine of the Trinity!

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True, but the concepts for the doctrines are both there in the bible

Salty said:

Yet, there are those churches who do NOT believe in the Trinity (No, I am Not one of them!)

Key word Interpretation

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Those would be heretical

JesusFan said:

Those would be heretical

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Call it what you want - but that is what they believe.
So let me ask you this - if a person does not believe in the concept - of the Trinity - can that individual still get saved and go to Heaven?

Salty said:

So let me ask you this - if a person does not believe in the concept - of the Trinity - can that individual still get saved and go to Heaven?

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Would that not depend on what they DO believe?

One can have serious issues wrapping their brain around three ‘persons’ = one ‘godhead’ and still place their trust in Jesus Christ for their salvation [Romans 10:9-10 style]. On the other hand, one who denies the deity of Christ would seem to be placing their trust in “another gospel” and another “savior”.

rstrats said:

Nor is there any verse that even implies that the first day of the week is referred to as the "Lord's Day" in scripture.

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Meh … I disagree.

rstrats said:

I don't see how that implies it's the "Lord's Day".

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Respectfully, that is not my problem. It is not my place to make you see … that is a Holy Spirit thing.

rstrats said:

However, If any day could be considered the "Lord's Day, it would be the Sabbath because in Matthew 12:8, The Messiah says that He is "Lord of the Sabbath.”

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Yet, what day is Jesus not LORD of?

Scripture is not unequivocal, but the record of history is.

Jewish Christians (the earliest converts) met in the Temple and Synagogues on the Sabbath.
Jewish and Gentile Christians met on the First Day of the week to worship (to avoid trouble with non-Christan Jews).
When Synagogues began to expel Jewish Christians, they began to meet with the Gentiles on Sunday.
Early church literature (non-biblical) equates The Lord’s Day with Sunday (the day of His resurrection).

Scripture does not contradict the historical record, so I see no reason to reject it as supporting evidence to help understand the scripture verses that reference the “Lord’s Day” and the “First day of the week”.
You are certainly free to reject it if that pleases you.

atpollard said:

Jewish and Gentile Christians met on the First Day of the week to worship (to avoid trouble with non-Christan Jews).

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It just seems odd that scripture never mentions the practice.

rstrats said:

It just seems odd that scripture never mentions the practice.

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rstrats said:

It just seems odd that scripture never mentions the practice.

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Scripture never mentions Christians meeting in the crypts beneath Rome, but archeology tells us that they did that, too.
What scripture does mention is:

Christians being expelled from the synagogue (and the life of the community).
Christians being arrested, questioned and beaten for preaching ‘the Way’.
Christians being killed for blasphemy by unbelieving Jews.

So scripture probably had more important matters to discuss at length than which day was called the Lord’s Day … especially since: “One person esteems [one] day above another; another esteems every day [alike]. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind.” - Romans 14:5 [NKJV]

… and they never mention meeting on Sunday, except when they do mention it in passing (like Paul preaching all day on Sunday in Acts 20:7, or the church gathering funds on Sunday in 1 Corinthians 16:2).

Well since we are talking about the Lord, and He is the first and the last, it seems fitting to me that the first day and the last day be His.
Sorry for being that guy, but they are all His.

God, in His infinite wisdom, gave us His word on the subject.

Romans 14:5-6a
One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it.
11-13
For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God. Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.

atpollard said:

Scripture never mentions Christians meeting in the crypts beneath Rome, but archeology tells us that they did that, too.

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I'm not saying that folks weren't meeting on the first day of the week, I'm simply pointing out that (with the exeception of the one time instances in John 20:19 and Acts 20:7) that scripture is silent with regard to the practice of meeting on the first day of the week.

atpollard said:

What scripture does mention is:

Christians being expelled from the synagogue (and the life of the community).
Christians being arrested, questioned and beaten for preaching ‘the Way’.
Christians being killed for blasphemy by unbelieving Jews.

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I don't see what that has to do with scripture showing that Christians meet regularly on the first day of the week.

atpollard said:

So scripture probably had more important matters to discuss at length than which day was called the Lord’s Day …

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Again, just pointing out that scripture never identifies it as the first day of the week, in case there are some who may think that it does.

atpollard said:

especially since: “One person esteems [one] day above another; another esteems every day [alike]. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind.” - Romans 14:5 [NKJV]

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Paul here is continuing his teaching with regard to eating practices and states what he is talking about in verse 6 - "...He who eats, eats to the Lord, for he gives God thanks, and he who does not eat, to the Lord he does not eat, and gives God thanks." He's talking about the Roman Christian's idea about fasting on certain days of the week.
The chapter from start to finish deals with issues involving dietary usage. Verse 20 sums up the chapter - 20 "Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food." Nothing is said here about the Sabbath or any thing said to make one think that there is .

atpollard said:

… and they never mention meeting on Sunday, except when they do mention it in passing (like Paul preaching all day on Sunday in Acts 20:7,

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This is only one of the two times mentioned about meeting on the first day of the week. And they might very well have had them gettubg together to break bread with Paul because he happened to be in town and wanted to talk to them before he had to leave again. The "breaking of bread" can simply be saying that the disciples got together to eat a meal on this particular first day of the week . The phrase, "to break bread", does not have to refer to a religious service - unless it is specifically stated - but to dividing loaves of bread for a meal. "It means to partake of food and is used of eating as in a meal...... The readers [of the original New Testament letters and manuscripts] could have had no other idea or meaning in their minds" (E.W.Bullinger, Figures of Speech Used in the Bible, pp. 839,840.
But even if the breaking of bread mentioned always did refer to the Lord’s Supper, it had nothing to do with placing a special emphasis on the first (day) because Acts 2:46 says that they broke bread every day.

atpollard said:

or the church gathering funds on Sunday in 1 Corinthians 16:2).

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And again, 1 Corinthians 16:2 says nothing about anyone meeting together on the first day of the week, though.

rstrats said:

I'm not saying that folks weren't meeting on the first day of the week, I'm simply pointing out that (with the exeception of the one time instances in John 20:19 and Acts 20:7) that scripture is silent with regard to the practice of meeting on the first day of the week.

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John 20:19 is the first time Jesus met his disciples. I think the point being made is more that it was the same day. The fact that it is the day that He rose makes it very likely that it is the day called His.

rstrats said:

I don't see what that has to do with scripture showing that Christians meet regularly on the first day of the week.

Again, just pointing out that scripture never identifies it as the first day of the week, in case there are some who may think that it does.


Paul here is continuing his teaching with regard to eating practices and states what he is talking about in verse 6 - "...He who eats, eats to the Lord, for he gives God thanks, and he who does not eat, to the Lord he does not eat, and gives God thanks." He's talking about the Roman Christian's idea about fasting on certain days of the week.
The chapter from start to finish deals with issues involving dietary usage. Verse 20 sums up the chapter - 20 "Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food."

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I disagree. It is not exclusively talking about days to fast.
It actually does not talk about fasting.
As much as I consider a diet of herbs, fasting, it is not fasting.
It is a question of “one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs. Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.”

rstrats said:

Nothing is said here about the Sabbath or any thing said to make one think that there is .

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Colossians 2:16
Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

Is this one clear enough?

rstrats said:

This is only one of the two times mentioned about meeting on the first day of the week. And they might very well have had them gettubg together to break bread with Paul because he happened to be in town and wanted to talk to them before he had to leave again. The "breaking of bread" can simply be saying that the disciples got together to eat a meal on this particular first day of the week . The phrase, "to break bread", does not have to refer to a religious service - unless it is specifically stated - but to dividing loaves of bread for a meal. "It means to partake of food and is used of eating as in a meal...... The readers [of the original New Testament letters and manuscripts] could have had no other idea or meaning in their minds" (E.W.Bullinger, Figures of Speech Used in the Bible, pp. 839,840.
But even if the breaking of bread mentioned always did refer to the Lord’s Supper, it had nothing to do with placing a special emphasis on the first (day) because Acts 2:46 says that they broke bread every day.

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Acts 20:7
And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.
It sounds like a good Baptist meeting to me. First day of the week, food or the Lord’s supper, whichever, and a sermon. But he preached till midnight. Not your modern Baptist tradition. If you are of the liberal variety, you probably have about half music and half preaching, leaning more and more toward the music. If you’re on the conservative side of the Baptist spectrum, midnight was just a short sermon.

rstrats said:

And again, 1 Corinthians 16:2 says nothing about anyone meeting together on the first day of the week, though.

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Of course they would have gathered the offering from all the people who didn’t meet together. They would have gone around and collected the offering like tax collectors and bounty hunters? I think not. I don’t think that you have thought that one through to completion.

But it is good to switch the days.
Luke 13:30
And, behold, there are last which shall be first, and there are first which shall be last.