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Now the People of God, Now Have Obtained Mercy

KenH

KenH

Well-Known Member
1 Peter 2:10 Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.

"Which in time past were not a people,.... A "Loammi" being put upon them; see Hosea 1:9 to which the apostle here refers: God's elect, whether among Jews or Gentiles, were, from eternity, his chosen people, and his covenant people; and, as such, were given to Christ, and they became his people, and his care and charge; and he saved them by his obedience, sufferings, and death, and redeemed them to himself, a peculiar people: but then, before conversion, they are not a people formed by God for himself, and his praise; nor Christ's willing people, either to be saved by him, or to serve him; nor are they, nor can they be truly known by themselves, or others, to be the people of God."

"but are now the people of God; being regenerated, called, and sanctified, they are avouched by God to be his people; they have the witness of the Spirit to their spirits, that they are the people of God; they can then claim their relation to God, and are known, acknowledged, and called the people of God, by others."

"which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy; being called formerly, Loruhamah, Hosea 1:6 which passages the apostle has in view: before conversion there is mercy in God's heart towards his elect, and so there is in the covenant of grace, and which was shown in the provision of his Son, as a Saviour, in the mission of him, and redemption by him; but this is not manifested to them, until they are begotten again, according to abundant mercy, and then they obtain mercy; having in their regeneration an evident display of the mercy of God towards them, and an application of his pardoning grace and mercy, through the blood of his Son, unto them."

- excerpts from John Gill's Bible commentary on 1 Peter 2:10
 
Z

Zaatar71

Active Member
KenH said:
1 Peter 2:10 Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.

"Which in time past were not a people,.... A "Loammi" being put upon them; see Hosea 1:9 to which the apostle here refers: God's elect, whether among Jews or Gentiles, were, from eternity, his chosen people, and his covenant people; and, as such, were given to Christ, and they became his people, and his care and charge; and he saved them by his obedience, sufferings, and death, and redeemed them to himself, a peculiar people: but then, before conversion, they are not a people formed by God for himself, and his praise; nor Christ's willing people, either to be saved by him, or to serve him; nor are they, nor can they be truly known by themselves, or others, to be the people of God."

"but are now the people of God; being regenerated, called, and sanctified, they are avouched by God to be his people; they have the witness of the Spirit to their spirits, that they are the people of God; they can then claim their relation to God, and are known, acknowledged, and called the people of God, by others."

"which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy; being called formerly, Loruhamah, Hosea 1:6 which passages the apostle has in view: before conversion there is mercy in God's heart towards his elect, and so there is in the covenant of grace, and which was shown in the provision of his Son, as a Saviour, in the mission of him, and redemption by him; but this is not manifested to them, until they are begotten again, according to abundant mercy, and then they obtain mercy; having in their regeneration an evident display of the mercy of God towards them, and an application of his pardoning grace and mercy, through the blood of his Son, unto them."

- excerpts from John Gill's Bible commentary on 1 Peter 2:10
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Yes indeed, John Gill of course got this issue correct, as it is quite clear in scripture. It is stunning how anyone who studies this out comes up with any other conclusion. Thanks for another solid post!
 
V

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
I see yet another Calvinist tag team posting false doctrine and declaring it sound.

The passage in question is 1 Peter 2:9-10. Is the passage addressing the Old Covenant or the New Covenant?

Look at 1 Peter 2:2 and see who is the audience. People alive at the time 1 Peter was written, not to people who lived under the Old Covenant. These were people who had been saved under the New Covenant, not the Old Covenant.

How could anyone make such a mistake as to think the passage is addressing an Old Covenant statement? Bias!

So the passage (1 Peter 2:9-10) is addressing people chosen for salvation under the New Covenant! Any other claim is simply false.

We are not supposed to interpret the New Covenant based on the Old Covenant, but the opposite, we are to interpret the Old Covenant based on the New Covenant. Thus the New Covenant overrules the Old Covenant, as it replaced the Old Covenant.

Now what does this passage actually say? Those chosen for salvation to be a people for God's own possession, once had not been a people. So they were not chosen before creation because then they would have always been a people. This is the obvious truth the tag-team is trying to hide with an avalanche of obfuscation.

And this truth is made plain by a second statement. Once these people who had been chosen to be mercifully saved, had not received mercy, thus for the second time, scripture precludes being chosen for salvation individually before creation.

The solution is not to keep nullifying verse after verse teaching individuals are chosen through faith in the truth, who love God, and are poor in the eyes of the world, the solution is to correctly understand Paul's message in Ephesians 1:4.

What did Paul mean by the statement, we were chosen in Him before creation. Scripture does teach Logos, the Word, was chosen to be humanities redeemer before creation, as He was known as the Lamb of God. So when you choose a redeemer, in effect you also choose corporately, those the redeemer will redeem. Thus we were chosen in Him, but not individually. This understanding makes all the other verses where we are chosen through faith make sense.

God bless His gospel truth.
 
Z

Zaatar71

Active Member
Van said:
I see yet another Calvinist tag team posting false doctrine and declaring it sound.

The passage in question is 1 Peter 2:9-10. Is the passage addressing the Old Covenant or the New Covenant?

Look at 1 Peter 2:2 and see who is the audience. People alive at the time 1 Peter was written, not to people who lived under the Old Covenant. These were people who had been saved under the New Covenant, not the Old Covenant.

How could anyone make such a mistake as to think the passage is addressing an Old Covenant statement? Bias!

So the passage (1 Peter 2:9-10) is addressing people chosen for salvation under the New Covenant! Any other claim is simply false.

We are not supposed to interpret the New Covenant based on the Old Covenant, but the opposite, we are to interpret the Old Covenant based on the New Covenant. Thus the New Covenant overrules the Old Covenant, as it replaced the Old Covenant.

Now what does this passage actually say? Those chosen for salvation to be a people for God's own possession, once had not been a people. So they were not chosen before creation because then they would have always been a people. This is the obvious truth the tag-team is trying to hide with an avalanche of obfuscation.

And this truth is made plain by a second statement. Once these people who had been chosen to be mercifully saved, had not received mercy, thus for the second time, scripture precludes being chosen for salvation individually before creation.

The solution is not to keep nullifying verse after verse teaching individuals are chosen through faith in the truth, who love God, and are poor in the eyes of the world, the solution is to correctly understand Paul's message in Ephesians 1:4.

What did Paul mean by the statement, we were chosen in Him before creation. Scripture does teach Logos, the Word, was chosen to be humanities redeemer before creation, as He was known as the Lamb of God. So when you choose a redeemer, in effect you also choose corporately, those the redeemer will redeem. Thus we were chosen in Him, but not individually. This understanding makes all the other verses where we are chosen through faith make sense.

God bless His gospel truth.
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It looks as if you have invented your own version of a gospel that no one else follows???What is up with that? Are you a secret Calvinist? You seem to be obsessed with this theology. Do you secretly covet to understand the teaching correctly. Just ask the Calvinist's they will help you.
 
KenH

KenH

Well-Known Member
Zaatar71 said:
It looks as if you have invented your own version of a gospel that no one else follows???What is up with that? Are you a secret Calvinist? You seem to be obsessed with this theology. Do you secretly covet to understand the teaching correctly. Just ask the Calvinist's they will help you.
Click to expand...

Van's teaching looks to things within or performed by the creature to have merit, and not to the perfect righteousness of Christ imputed, credited, charged to God's elect.
 
V

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Zaatar71 said:
It looks as if you have invented your own version of a gospel that no one else follows???What is up with that? Are you a secret Calvinist? You seem to be obsessed with this theology. Do you secretly covet to understand the teaching correctly. Just ask the Calvinist's they will help you.
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Yes, folk, we have yet another post addressing me and running from any effort to discuss biblical doctrine.
 
V

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
KenH said:
Van's teaching looks to things within or performed by the creature to have merit, and not to the perfect righteousness of Christ imputed, credited, charged to God's elect.
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Yes another absolute falsehood with no quote. The claim that the faith of a lost person merits salvation is the spawn of Satan, and promulgated by Calvinists.
 
David Lamb

David Lamb

Well-Known Member
Van said:
Yes another absolute falsehood with no quote. The claim that the faith of a lost person merits salvation is the spawn of Satan, and promulgated by Calvinists.
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Calvinists (at least, those I have come across) do not believe that any sinner merits salvation. That is why we need a sinless Saviour. It is His merits that save us, not our own. As Paul wrote to the Christians at Ephesus:

“For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.” (Eph 2:10 NKJV)
 
V

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
David Lamb said:
Calvinists (at least, those I have come across) do not believe that any sinner merits salvation. That is why we need a sinless Saviour. It is His merits that save us, not our own. As Paul wrote to the Christians at Ephesus:

“For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.” (Eph 2:10 NKJV)
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Yet another subject change post, running from biblical truth. You believe if a lost person puts their faith in Christ, and God credits that faith as righteousness, then the lost person somehow merited salvation. That is your and Calvinism's Absolutely False Claim.

Please stop with the obfuscation, and defend your doctrines. I believe no Calvinist can without resorting to misdirection and subject change.
 
David Lamb

David Lamb

Well-Known Member
Van said:
Yet another subject change post, running from biblical truth. You believe if a lost person puts their faith in Christ, and God credits that faith as righteousness, then the lost person somehow merited salvation. That is your and Calvinism's Absolutely False Claim.

Please stop with the obfuscation, and defend your doctrines. I believe no Calvinist can without resorting to misdirection and subject change.
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Sorry but I was responding to your post, where you stated that Calvinists believe that faith merits salvation. I responded to say that Calvinists do not believe that. How is that changing the subject?
 
V

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
David Lamb said:
Sorry but I was responding to your post, where you stated that Calvinists believe that faith merits salvation. I responded to say that Calvinists do not believe that. How is that changing the subject?
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Not what I said, stop with the usual misdirection to change subjects.

Here again is what I said: "The claim that the faith of a lost person merits salvation is the spawn of Satan, and promulgated by Calvinists."

The reason Calvinism teaches "the gift of faith" via Irresistible grace, is because they believe in unconditional election, that the lost were chosen before creation without regard to whether the person would put his or her faith in Christ. Calvinism claims if God uses the lost person's faith, that is a "works based salvation" and therefore unbiblical.
 
David Lamb

David Lamb

Well-Known Member
Van said:
Not what I said, stop with the usual misdirection to change subjects.

Here again is what I said: "The claim that the faith of a lost person merits salvation is the spawn of Satan, and promulgated by Calvinists."

The reason Calvinism teaches "the gift of faith" via Irresistible grace, is because they believe in unconditional election, that the lost were chosen before creation without regard to whether the person would put his or her faith in Christ. Calvinism claims if God uses the lost person's faith, that is a "works based salvation" and therefore unbiblical.
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As you say, your actual words were: " The claim that the faith of a lost person merits salvation is the spawn of Satan, and promulgated by Calvinists." How does that differ from my "Sorry but I was responding to your post, where you stated that Calvinists believe that faith merits salvation?" If as you say in this post, Calvinists see faith as a gift from God, how can you say that they also sit that faith as meritorious?
 
V

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
David Lamb said:
As you say, your actual words were: " The claim that the faith of a lost person merits salvation is the spawn of Satan, and promulgated by Calvinists." How does that differ from my "Sorry but I was responding to your post, where you stated that Calvinists believe that faith merits salvation?" If as you say in this post, Calvinists see faith as a gift from God, how can you say that they also sit that faith as meritorious?
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Are you pretending to be unable to grasp the issue? Calvinists claim, falsely, that if a lost person puts their own faith in Christ, and God uses that human faith, then that would be a works based salvation. For you to continue to deny the "gift of faith" doctrine of Calvinism is without merit.
 
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