How am I being inconsistent?
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Can We Observe the the Jewish Sabbath still as a Church or person?
- Thread starter JesusFan
- Start date
The Lord’s day is applicable to every day that the Lord owns. (He owns them all by nature of His creation of them, but still not every day is given to Him)
Romans 14:6
He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.
When something is of the Lord it proceeds from Him. To say every day is the day of the Lord is to diminish what the Bible says is the Day of the Lord. So, even though every day is from the Lord because “by Him all things consist,” we don’t say that this is the Fay of the Lord, we say/sing this is the day that the Lord hath made.
But to attribute a day to the Lord as the Lord’s Day is to regard the day to be His. Some people think that the right day is Saturday and some people think that it is Sunday.
They are not actually the same words. They are different words that add different meanings.
The Day of the Lord
The Lord’s Day
Parallel for people who have trouble seeing the difference:
The Day of the Lord
The Day __ ___ Lord‘s
They are not the same words.
A quick question: you think that john being in the Day of the Lord is the correct interpretation of Revelation 1:10? Would that make sense when this is recorded before he is actually given the vision of the Day of the Lord?
Not. He was 'in the Spirit', as seems to be the norm with some of His prophets:
Revelation Chapter 1
10 | I was in the Spirit on the Lord`s day, and I heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet |
Ezekiel Chapter 8
3 | And he put forth the form of a hand, and took me by a lock of my head; and the Spirit lifted me up between earth and heaven, and brought me in the visions of God to Jerusalem, to the door of the gate of the inner court that looketh toward the north; where was the seat of the image of jealousy, which provoketh to jealousy. |
2nd Corinthians Chapter 12
2 | I know a man in Christ, fourteen years ago (whether in the body, I know not; or whether out of the body, I know not; God knoweth), such a one caught up even to the third heaven. |
3 | And I know such a man (whether in the body, or apart from the body, I know not; God knoweth), |
4 | how that he was caught up into Paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter. |
Just so it's understood that scripture is silent with regard to that.
I don't see the difference with regard to its meaning.
Kinda. In Acts 20 we read "on the first day of the week, when we gathered to break bread" to mean they gathered on Sunday.
See post #56.
What I meant by "kinda" is in the Bible we do not have many examples of the days the Christians met as a congregation. We know that they gathered on Sunday, however we do not know that they gathered as a congregation on other days.
Only two times to be exact. And in neither of those two times is anything said about rest and worship. So, I don't think that those two examples are really appropriate as proof texts for suggesting that they were evidence that the Lord had changed His commandment for rest and worship from the seventh day of the week to the first.
Assuming that's true, and I'm not sure it is, what are you suggesting?
Since we are not under the Law, where in the NT do you find the command to meet or rest on the seventh day.
Technically you can separate the day you meet and the day you rest. I know of people who do still hold to a seventh day rest and they don’t consider Sunday as a day of rest.
So where is the NT commandment for Seventh Day rest?
What I am suggesting is that they met on the Lord's Day as a congregation.
No passage suggests that they met on the Sabbath as a congregation.
In fact, the Jewish Christians would have gone to the Temple or to synagogues - obviously not as a congregation (the non-Christian Jews were not the church leaders).
So we know that they did not meet on the Sabbath as a church, and you are saying they did not meet on Sunday as a church.....so when did they meet as a congregation?
What do you mean by "under the Law"?
Do you include the 10 commandments as part of the law?
Other than Hebrews 4:9, which may or may not be a command, depending on the translation being used , I'm not aware of any actual command to observe the Sabbath.
So, it's down to using the silence argument against the Sabbath.
And the Lord specifies that the day for rest is to be observed on the seventh day of the week.
Let me ask you, why do you seem to have such disdain for the Lord's Sabbath?
We do not know absolutely, but given that the first Christisns were Jewish and observed the standards of their cukture (attending Temple and synagogue), there is a reasonable expectation that they did not also meet as a congregation. They could have (it is not impossible) but we do not know that they did.
The only day of the week given in Scripture that the church met as a congregation os Sunday, and as you noted this is only noted twice.
We know that the church met to "break bread" on Sunday (at least on one Sunday) and we know that it was their practice for the collection to occur on Sunday (Ananias and Sapphira would have lied about what they gave on a Sunday).
So yes, the only evidence about a day the church gathered as a congregation is that they gathered on Sunday but there are not a bunch of passages we can reference.
They could have met for the collection on Sunday and then met again on Tuesday. We don't know.
Keith Mullins
Member
Romans 14:5-9 One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. The one who observes the day, observes it in honor of the Lord. The one who eats, eats in honor of the Lord, since he gives thanks to God, while the one who abstains, abstains in honor of the Lord and gives thanks to God. For none of us lives to himself, and none of us dies to himself. For if we live, we live to the Lord, and if we die, we die to the Lord. So then, whether we live or whether we die, we are the Lord’s. For to this end Christ died and lived again, that he might be Lord both of the dead and of the living.
Maybe, I'm merely pointing out that 1 Corinthians 16:2 is not an appropriate verse to use as support for a meeting on the first day on the week. - although, I suppose someone might dig out an ultra-modern "translation" from some loony bin organization which interprets it that way.
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The context of all of Romans 14 from beginning to end is about food and ideas with regard to eating and not eating. Nothing is mentioned about the Sabbath. Verse 6 explains to what verse 5 is referring; that the verse is talking about eating or not eating (fasting) on certain days of the week.
Again, the context of the chapter from start to finish has to do with not judging anyone with regard to eating and drinking practices. Nothing is said about the Sabbath.
The specific reason that Paul wrote the chapter is summed up in verse 20: "Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food".
The same as what Paul meant when he said it.
Not being under the law doesn’t make the law without affect.
Same as you are using for Sunday. That is my point. Your arguments for NT Saturday are not any stronger than NT Sunday.
So you esteem Saturday over Sunday. That’s great.
Others see every day alike. That’s fine too. Particularly since we are told not to let anyone judge us in respect of holy days.
You have an active imagination. I am merely pointing out that you have as much to stand on in the NT as anyone else who prefers a different day. If you were to follow Scripture on the matter, it would not make any difference to you which day anyone else observed rest.
Tell me this, do you ever eat out on Saturdays, put gas in your cars, cook, make your bed on Saturdays?
If you make your bed, fill up your car, or cook then you don’t follow the Sabbath.
If you go out to stores or restaurants or gas stations you make others to transgress your laws and have disdain for your sabbath.
How much of a hypocrite are you on the issue here?
Have you forgotten that the day is for the man and not the man for the day?