-
Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
Did God the Father Put Jesus to death upon that Cross for our Justification?
- Thread starter JesusFan
- Start date
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
The Fathers predetermination Acts 2:22-24
22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:
23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:
24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.
So the biblcal answer to who or what killed Jesus would be due to God the Father, and God the Son willingly agreed to be the Sin bearer and atoner
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
Yes, it was due to the Fathers predetermined purpose men killed Jesus Acts 3
14 But ye denied the Holy One and the Just, and desired a murderer to be granted unto you;
15 And killed the Prince of life, whom God hath raised from the dead; whereof we are witnesses.
And THAT truth is what causes many today to call that concept as pagan and barbaric, even though it the truth
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
As long as it is the Truth is what matters
Alan Dale Gross
Active Member
As our friend John Gill says here (being dead, yet speaketh) is Formed in the Third Person of the Triune Godhead, Jesus Christ, by the Predetermed Love, Grace, and Mercy of God, the Good Will and Purpose of His Heart, and His Eternal Council and Covenant, Perfectly Accomplished the Eternal Plot of man's Redemption in and through the Redemption by Christ.
"The Moving Cause of Redemption of Jesus Christ,
or from whence it Springs and Flows is the Everlasting Love of God;
"The Everlasting Love of God is the Source and Spring of every Blessing of Grace;
as of Election, Regeneration, and Effectual Calling; so of Redemption.
"The Gift of Jesus Christ to be the Redeemer of His people Flows from this Love. Christ was Given to be a Redeemer before He was Sent; when He was Given for a Covenant to the people He was Given in Eternal Covenant Agreement to be the Redeemer of them; and this Gift was the Effect of Love;
"to this Christ Himself ascribes it;
"God so Loved the world, that He Gave His Only Begotten Son"; that is, to He their Redeemer;
"hence, before Jesus Came, Job had knowledge of Him as his Living Redeemer; and all the Old Testament saints waited for Him as such. The Mission of Christ in the Fullness of Time, to be the Propitiation for the sins of men, and to Redeem them from their sins, is Given as a Manifest, Clear, and Undoubted Instance of His Love; "In this was Manifested the Love of God", &c. "Herein is Love", &c. #1 Jo 4:9,10
"and God's not Sparing His Son, but Delivering Him into the Hands of Justice and death, to die in the Room and Stead of sinners, while they were such, is a Full Demonstration and High Commendation of His Great Love unto them, #Ro 5:8..."
What else do you expect from a barbaric pagan (in theory and/or practice).
Alan Dale Gross
Active Member
The Truth as to the Redeeming of Ransoming Features of the Atonement.
See much more at this link.
Note the following passages:
"The Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister,
and to give His life a ransom for many" (Matt. 20:28).
"But of Him are ye in Christ Jesus, Who was made unto us wisdom from God,
and Righteousness and Sanctification, and Redemption" (1 Cor. 1:30).
"Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law,
having become a curse for us" (Gal. 3:13).
"God sent forth His Son . . .
that He might redeem them that were under the law" (Gal. 4:4,5).
" . . . in whom we have redemption through His blood
the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace" (Eph. 1:7).
". . .Who gave Himself a ransom for all" (1 Tim. 2:6).
". . .Who gave Himself for us that He might redeem us from all iniquity" (Titus 2:14).
". . . through His own blood, entered in once for all into the Holy Place,
having obtained eternal redemption" (Heb. 9:12).
"Ye were redeemed . . . with precious blood . . . even the blood of Christ" (I Pet. 1:18,19).
". . . thou wast slain, and didst redeem unto God with Thy blood,
men of every tribe, and tongue, and people, and nation" (Rev. 5:9).
"In the passages above in which "redeem" or one of its cognates appears, we have four Greek words or their cognates:
"agorazo," meaning "to acquire at the forum;"
"exagorazo" to acquire out of the forum;"
"lutroo," "to loose by a price;"
and "apolutrosis," "a loosing away."
"The Greek words in the passages where "ransom" appears are respectively 'lutron," "a price," and "antilutron," "a corresponding price." The plain meaning of these passages, in the light of the rest of the New Testament, especially Rom. 3:25,26, is that the death of Christ was the price of our deliverance from sin's penalty.
See further Rom. 8: 1,33,34; 10:4. Gal. 3:13 describes exactly how we are redeemed when it tells us that we are redeemed from the curse of the law through Christ Who became a curse for us. He bore the curse we deserve. He paid the penalty we owed. For that reason, we go free.
Note that "ransom" in 1 Tim. 2:6 means "a corresponding price." This means that the price paid by Christ corresponded to the debt we owed. In other words, Christ suffered the exact equivalent of that which those for whom He died would have suffered in Hell.
"If the justice of God demanded that Christ die in order that God might justify sinners, the same justice demanded that He pay the full penalty owed by the sinners.
"Justice can forego all the penalty as easily as it can forego the least part of it.
"For God to take that as satisfaction which is not really such is to say that there is no truth in anything. God may take a part for the whole; error for truth, wrong for right . . .
"If every created thing offered to God is worth just so much as God accepts it for, then the blood of bulls and goats might take away sins, and Christ is dead in vain" (Hodge, Syst. Theol., 2:573-581; 3:188,189).
"God did not send Christ forever into Hell; but He put on Christ punishment that was equivalent to that. Although He did not give Christ to drink the actual Hell of believers, yet He gave Him a quid pro quo--something that was equivalent thereunto, He took the cup of Christ's agony, and He put in there, suffering, misery and anguish . . . that was the exact equivalent for all the suffering, all the eternal tortures of every one that shall at last stand in Heaven, bought with the blood of Christ" (Spurgeon, Sermons, Vol. 4, p. 217).
"The penalty paid by Christ is strictly and literally equivalent to that which the sinner would have borne, although it is not identical. The vicarious bearing of it excludes the latter" (Shedd, Discourses and Essays, p. 307).
"Substitution excludes identity of suffering; it does not exclude equivalence" (Strong, Systematic Theology, p. 420)."
"Sometimes the opponents of the redeeming and ransoming nature of Christ's death ask whom the price was paid to. And they rather sarcastically remind us that some have been quick to say that it was paid to the Devil. No, it was not paid to the Devil.
"It was not paid to anybody as a commercial transaction.
"The price is the penalty demanded by the justice of God.
"We adopt, therefore, as the true view of the nature of the atonement, a view that combines the commercial theory and the ethical theory as they are described by Strong.
"From the commercial theory, we accept the idea expressed in 1 Tim. 2:6--the paying of a corresponding or equivalent price.
"And from the ethical theory, we accept the fact that it was not divine honor and majesty that demanded the atonement, as the commercial view asserts, but the ethical principles of holiness and justice in God.
"Between the most orthodox creed of atonement by proper, real, and full satisfaction of justice, and the frank and utter denial of atonement that offers any satisfaction to law, there is absolutely no logical standing ground."
"Scripture without hesitation and without explanation represents salvation by Christ as a transaction analogous to the payment of debt, the ransom of a captive, the redemption of a forfeited inheritance.
"From the beginning to the end of the Bible, there is no note of warning, no intimation that these comparisons may be misleading. It is always assumed that they do plainly set forth Christ's work of redemption.
"The outcry against the theology that compares Christ's work to the payment of debt, the redemption of a forfeited inheritance, the outcry against the use of any one of the abounding scriptural allusions to financial transactions, is an outcry that betrays at once disregard for Scripture and a misconception of Christ's Perfect Work of Redemption" (Armour, Atonement and Law, pp. 128,137)."