Another Look At The Covenant

Greetings to all my brothers in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Under the traditional Reformed teaching of covenants, there is one covenant, that being the Covenant of Grace, under which there are various administrations. This one covenant in which all others are under would seem to assume that each covenant builds toward the full revelation of the Covenant of Grace.

That is, the terms of the earlier administrations would not conflict with the overarching administration AND foreshadow what is to be the revelation of the overarching Covenant of Grace. Further under this understanding, there can be no one administration that works against what it is ultimately under, i.e., the overarching Covenant of Grace.

Now, I do not intend to hold to all the presuppositions of Calvinististic thought in this topic of the covenants. However, I thought the Reformed understanding is a good start for what I want to explore. What I want to explore is the possibility that the covenants within the Bible all are foreshadowing and revealing what is to be ultimately revealed in the New Covenant.

Adamic Covenant: Foreshadowing the promise of eternal life (Gen 2:9:9, 16) offered to Adam and
His descendants if you believe and have faith (believe Gen 2:17, or not believe Gen 3:4-5).

Garden Promise: Foreshadowing that God will reconcile mankind and fulfill His promise of
an offer of Eternal life if one believes and has faith by conquering the devil and his powers of sin and death through a chosen Seed (Gen 3:15).

Noahic Covenant: Foreshadowing that God will bring judgement upon the earth but will spare
My people from this judgement and subsequent wrath. [symbolism of judgment day]

Abrahamic Covenant: Foreshadowing that the future sons of Abraham, those that will “walk before Me
and be blameless” (Gen 17:1), are actually those of Faith (Gal 3:7) and will be recognizable by the seal of a spiritual circumcision of the Heart (Deu, 10:16, Jer 4:4, Rom 2:29).

Mosaic Covenant: Foreshadowing that “My people” will be transformed into the reflection of My
law by the coming Seed in which the law is a reflection.

Davidic Covenant: Foreshadowing that all this will be achieved by the Seed from the line of David.
Who will be the perpetual King of Kings and Lord of Lords over all.

The New Covenant: This is the culmination of all things that God foreshadowed. A new
birth, a new covenant, a mediator between you and God. A promise fulfilled to Adam and his descendants to have eternal life with God if you only believe and have faith.

What do you think?

Peace to you brothers

Paleouss said:

Greetings to all my brothers in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Under the traditional Reformed teaching of covenants, there is one covenant, that being the Covenant of Grace, under which there are various administrations. This one covenant in which all others are under would seem to assume that each covenant builds toward the full revelation of the Covenant of Grace.

That is, the terms of the earlier administrations would not conflict with the overarching administration AND foreshadow what is to be the revelation of the overarching Covenant of Grace. Further under this understanding, there can be no one administration that works against what it is ultimately under, i.e., the overarching Covenant of Grace.

Now, I do not intend to hold to all the presuppositions of Calvinististic thought in this topic of the covenants. However, I thought the Reformed understanding is a good start for what I want to explore. What I want to explore is the possibility that the covenants within the Bible all are foreshadowing and revealing what is to be ultimately revealed in the New Covenant.

Adamic Covenant: Foreshadowing the promise of eternal life (Gen 2:9:9, 16) offered to Adam and
His descendants if you believe and have faith (believe Gen 2:17, or not believe Gen 3:4-5).

Garden Promise: Foreshadowing that God will reconcile mankind and fulfill His promise of
an offer of Eternal life if one believes and has faith by conquering the devil and his powers of sin and death through a chosen Seed (Gen 3:15).

Noahic Covenant: Foreshadowing that God will bring judgement upon the earth but will spare
My people from this judgement and subsequent wrath. [symbolism of judgment day]

Abrahamic Covenant: Foreshadowing that the future sons of Abraham, those that will “walk before Me
and be blameless” (Gen 17:1), are actually those of Faith (Gal 3:7) and will be recognizable by the seal of a spiritual circumcision of the Heart (Deu, 10:16, Jer 4:4, Rom 2:29).

Mosaic Covenant: Foreshadowing that “My people” will be transformed into the reflection of My
law by the coming Seed in which the law is a reflection.

Davidic Covenant: Foreshadowing that all this will be achieved by the Seed from the line of David.
Who will be the perpetual King of Kings and Lord of Lords over all.

The New Covenant: This is the culmination of all things that God foreshadowed. A new
birth, a new covenant, a mediator between you and God. A promise fulfilled to Adam and his descendants to have eternal life with God if you only believe and have faith.

What do you think?

Peace to you brothers

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While the covenants you mentioned do indeed culminate in the New Covenant, there are disagreements within the Reformed community about the administrations of these covenants. For instance, it is a popular view among Reformed Presbyterians that the New Covenant is not really new. It is viewed as a refreshed Abrahamic Covenant. Presbyterians use this view to defend baptizing infants. They consider infants born into a believing household to be members of the New Covenant community, not on the basis of saving faith, but on receiving baptism. The refreshed part is that baptism replaces circumcision as the sign and seal of the Abrahamic Covenant. As Baptists we obviously disagree with that view very strongly.

Paleouss said:

Greetings to all my brothers in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Under the traditional Reformed teaching of covenants, there is one covenant, that being the Covenant of Grace, under which there are various administrations. This one covenant in which all others are under would seem to assume that each covenant builds toward the full revelation of the Covenant of Grace.

That is, the terms of the earlier administrations would not conflict with the overarching administration AND foreshadow what is to be the revelation of the overarching Covenant of Grace. Further under this understanding, there can be no one administration that works against what it is ultimately under, i.e., the overarching Covenant of Grace.

Now, I do not intend to hold to all the presuppositions of Calvinististic thought in this topic of the covenants. However, I thought the Reformed understanding is a good start for what I want to explore. What I want to explore is the possibility that the covenants within the Bible all are foreshadowing and revealing what is to be ultimately revealed in the New Covenant.

Adamic Covenant: Foreshadowing the promise of eternal life (Gen 2:9:9, 16) offered to Adam and
His descendants if you believe and have faith (believe Gen 2:17, or not believe Gen 3:4-5).

Garden Promise: Foreshadowing that God will reconcile mankind and fulfill His promise of
an offer of Eternal life if one believes and has faith by conquering the devil and his powers of sin and death through a chosen Seed (Gen 3:15).

Noahic Covenant: Foreshadowing that God will bring judgement upon the earth but will spare
My people from this judgement and subsequent wrath. [symbolism of judgment day]

Abrahamic Covenant: Foreshadowing that the future sons of Abraham, those that will “walk before Me
and be blameless” (Gen 17:1), are actually those of Faith (Gal 3:7) and will be recognizable by the seal of a spiritual circumcision of the Heart (Deu, 10:16, Jer 4:4, Rom 2:29).

Mosaic Covenant: Foreshadowing that “My people” will be transformed into the reflection of My
law by the coming Seed in which the law is a reflection.

Davidic Covenant: Foreshadowing that all this will be achieved by the Seed from the line of David.
Who will be the perpetual King of Kings and Lord of Lords over all.

The New Covenant: This is the culmination of all things that God foreshadowed. A new
birth, a new covenant, a mediator between you and God. A promise fulfilled to Adam and his descendants to have eternal life with God if you only believe and have faith.

What do you think?

Peace to you brothers

Click to expand...

I think your Adamic Covenant goes too far. It assumes God entered into a Covenant that Adam woukd live forever if he did not eat of the fruit. But we do not know this. What if a hundred years later God told Adam to do something and Adam disobeyed? If there was an Adamic Covenant then Adam would be free to sin without sin producing death.

The Garden promise is actually a prophecy rather than a promise. It was announcing what was to come. The problem with calling it a promise is God is righteous (every thing God says is true...no promise needed).

Greetings JonC. Thank you for your wisdom on this issue.

JonC said:

I think your Adamic Covenant goes too far. It assumes God entered into a Covenant that Adam woukd live forever if he did not eat of the fruit.

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First, I freely concede that what I am to say is from logical biblical deduction. A position one holds with the caveat that it could be wrong since scripture does not explicitly state it. Although I do not think I am wrong.

Second, although I labeled the Adamatic period a covenant I am very loose with that term and not sure it should be labeled a "covenant". It is just how God created things to be.

Here are the foundations of my logic regarding the living forever...
1. God the Son is the Alpha and Omega of this world (Rev 22:13, 1:8, 1:11, 21:6). The reason this world was created (Col 1:16) and the purposeful end, that is the object of final end, that all creation is to culminate toward and in (Eph 1:10, Rom 11:36, Rev 22:13, 1:8, 1:11, 21:6). This world is all about the Son of God.

2. Through scripture we know that our final intended state is glorified man in the Son of God. A state in which we are not able to sin. Adam was not created in this state.

3. God did not have one purpose before the fall and then due to sin, change that purpose. God's purpose was not thwarted.

4. Therefore, Adam's purpose upon his creation, being created in glory (small g), was to progress without sinning toward his ultimate end, from glory to glory toward Glory (big G) in the Son of God.

So once Adam had progressed to his purposeful end in the Son of God. He would be in a state of glorified man. Glorified man is a state in the Son of God with eternal life.

JonC said:

But we do not know this. What if a hundred years later God told Adam to do something and Adam disobeyed?

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If Adam sinned much later in his progress from glory to Glory then the same result would take place that actually did take place. Just later.

It seems that the only scenario in which sin would not have entered the world would be if Adam grew in glory all the way to his intended end and attained Glory in the Son of God. By "attained" I mean reached...not implying works based.

JonC said:

If there was an Adamic Covenant then Adam would be free to sin without sin producing death.

Click to expand...

I don't follow you here. Could you say this differently so I can see the point you are making?

JonC said:

The Garden promise is actually a prophecy rather than a promise.

Click to expand...

I'll concede that.


Regarding Adam's path pre fall being the end in God the Son. Here is what I am thinking from a different frame of reference.

1. Adam was created in glory (small g) and was to be nurtured toward final Glory (big G), i.e., mankind's initial purpose was to progress from glory to glory toward the ultimate end in the Son of God. The Son of God was then The Life that was the purposeful intended end of this world from the very beginning. The Alpha and Omega of creation by which Adam would obtain Glorified Man.

2. Adam’s ultimate intended end from the very beginning, the Son of God, can be likened unto a light on a hill. That which Adam, being in glory (small g) was to culminate toward and in, that which was in the distance of Adam’s future that was the Light and Life of creation.

3. If Adam’s final end in this world was to be the Life, i.e., the Light on the hill in the distance, then the path by which Adam was to travel, the straight and narrow path, was The Way. The Way led to the Life, that which was in the distance that Adam was to progress toward.

4. As Adam progressed on the Way, that is the straight path from glory toward Glory, he was being transformed by the Truth. The Truth is what informed Adam of the Way, it was the light unto the path that is the straight and narrow path toward the Life. The Truth is of Spirit and Adam, who progressed toward the Life, on the Way, was to progress in spirit and truth.

5. The fall of Adam was Adam not believing in the Truth but a lie (Gen 3:4). He, and even the world, became enslaved within a Kingdom of Darkness. A Kingdom from which mankind would struggle to see the Way and the Truth.

6. But God's intentions cannot be thwarted and God used Adam's sin to His good toward what was the final intended end of this world from the very beginning. That is the final end in the Son of God.


Peace to you brother

Paleouss said:

Greetings JonC. Thank you for your wisdom on this issue.

First, I freely concede that what I am to say is from logical biblical deduction. A position one holds with the caveat that it could be wrong since scripture does not explicitly state it. Although I do not think I am wrong.

Second, although I labeled the Adamatic period a covenant I am very loose with that term and not sure it should be labeled a "covenant". It is just how God created things to be.

Here are the foundations of my logic regarding the living forever...
1. God the Son is the Alpha and Omega of this world (Rev 22:13, 1:8, 1:11, 21:6). The reason this world was created (Col 1:16) and the purposeful end, that is the object of final end, that all creation is to culminate toward and in (Eph 1:10, Rom 11:36, Rev 22:13, 1:8, 1:11, 21:6). This world is all about the Son of God.

2. Through scripture we know that our final intended state is glorified man in the Son of God. A state in which we are not able to sin. Adam was not created in this state.

3. God did not have one purpose before the fall and then due to sin, change that purpose. God's purpose was not thwarted.

4. Therefore, Adam's purpose upon his creation, being created in glory (small g), was to progress without sinning toward his ultimate end, from glory to glory toward Glory (big G) in the Son of God.

So once Adam had progressed to his purposeful end in the Son of God. He would be in a state of glorified man. Glorified man is a state in the Son of God with eternal life.

If Adam sinned much later in his progress from glory to Glory then the same result would take place that actually did take place. Just later.

It seems that the only scenario in which sin would not have entered the world would be if Adam grew in glory all the way to his intended end and attained Glory in the Son of God. By "attained" I mean reached...not implying works based.

I don't follow you here. Could you say this differently so I can see the point you are making?

I'll concede that.


Regarding Adam's path pre fall being the end in God the Son. Here is what I am thinking from a different frame of reference.

1. Adam was created in glory (small g) and was to be nurtured toward final Glory (big G), i.e., mankind's initial purpose was to progress from glory to glory toward the ultimate end in the Son of God. The Son of God was then The Life that was the purposeful intended end of this world from the very beginning. The Alpha and Omega of creation by which Adam would obtain Glorified Man.

2. Adam’s ultimate intended end from the very beginning, the Son of God, can be likened unto a light on a hill. That which Adam, being in glory (small g) was to culminate toward and in, that which was in the distance of Adam’s future that was the Light and Life of creation.

3. If Adam’s final end in this world was to be the Life, i.e., the Light on the hill in the distance, then the path by which Adam was to travel, the straight and narrow path, was The Way. The Way led to the Life, that which was in the distance that Adam was to progress toward.

4. As Adam progressed on the Way, that is the straight path from glory toward Glory, he was being transformed by the Truth. The Truth is what informed Adam of the Way, it was the light unto the path that is the straight and narrow path toward the Life. The Truth is of Spirit and Adam, who progressed toward the Life, on the Way, was to progress in spirit and truth.

5. The fall of Adam was Adam not believing in the Truth but a lie (Gen 3:4). He, and even the world, became enslaved within a Kingdom of Darkness. A Kingdom from which mankind would struggle to see the Way and the Truth.

6. But God's intentions cannot be thwarted and God used Adam's sin to His good toward what was the final intended end of this world from the very beginning. That is the final end in the Son of God.


Peace to you brother

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Greetings to you as well.

I have one correction to your first statement. It is not logical biblical deduction. It is a logical fallacy (denying the antecedent). Just an observation. It is hypothetical so it reakky does not matter. Just trying to help you refine your statements.