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Were Calvin and Luther 'saved'?

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easternstar

Member
Walter said:
IMHO, I think you align much closer to Orthodoxy in your atonement position
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Yes, I think so too, and to early Quakerism. I could never be Orthodox for other reasons. I could maybe be a Quaker, in some parts of the country, but not a liberal Quaker. That's if there was no acceptable Baptist church around. I'm conservative, but not fundamentalist, and not liberal. I'm not a typical Baptist, if there even is such, but I do hold to the Baptist distinctives. On the Calvinist-Arminian spectrum, I'd definitely be on the Armininian side. And yet I don't consider myself Arminian either
 
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JonC

JonC

Moderator
Moderator
easternstar said:
Yes, I think so too, and to early Quakerism. I could never be Orthodox for other reasons. I could maybe be a Quaker, in some parts of the country, but not a liberal Quaker. That's if there was no acceptable Baptist church around. I'm conservative, but not fundamentalist, and not liberal. I'm not a typical Baptist, if there even is such, but I do hold to the Baptist distinctives. On the Calvinist-Arminian spectrum, I'd definitely be on the Armininian side. And yet I don't consider myself Arminian either
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There are thinhs I like about the Orthodox view (theosis), and I think we are moving "from glory to glory". I am not sure about their emphasis. There were too many pagan influences in the formation of the Catholic Church (a natural result of its formation).
 
E

easternstar

Member
JonC said:
There are thinhs I like about the Orthodox view (theosis), and I think we are moving "from glory to glory". I am not sure about their emphasis. There were too many pagan influences in the formation of the Catholic Church (a natural result of its formation).
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In the West, John Wesley was influenced by Orthodoxy, and I am attracted to some aspects of Wesleyan theology. I much prefer the EOC to the RCC but could never belong to either. I was raised Baptist, drifted away, but came back.
 
JonC

JonC

Moderator
Moderator
easternstar said:
In the West, John Wesley was influenced by Orthodoxy, and I am attracted to some aspects of Wesleyan theology. I much prefer the EOC to the RCC but could never belong to either. I was raised Baptist, drifted away, but came back.
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I am more attracted to aspects of Anabaptist theology (I disagree with the extent of where they took some principles). But I also prefer EOC to RCC (would never consider either, EOC just seems not to have drifted as far).
 
E

easternstar

Member
JonC said:
I am more attracted to aspects of Anabaptist theology (I disagree with the extent of where they took some principles). But I also prefer EOC to RCC (would never consider either, EOC just seems not to have drifted as far).
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Oh, yes, I like a lot of Anabaptist theology. Although I don't adhere to pacifism the way they teach it.
 
Tea

Tea

Active Member
Very quickly, I’d like to confess that I was in error in my initial responses to the OP. We’ve buried the hatchet and will move on.

Returning to the main topic, I agree that although Luther, Calvin, and many of the early reformers committed some awful acts, they also contributed significant theological insights, and we likely wouldn't be where we are today without their efforts.

One thing I am thankful for is being able to live in a free country where we can discuss our differences peaceably without the threat of being condemned by a church-state government, a luxury that the church has had for a relatively short amount of time in history.
 
canadyjd

canadyjd

Well-Known Member
You hate “evil”?

Do you consider PSA theory to be evil? Do you consider those that have concluded scripture clearly teaches PSA theory to be evil?

If yes to either, there can be no discussion, no debate no attempt at reconciliation. There is only fear that “evil” is being taught and accepted. The RCC feared the reformation leaders would teach “heresy”.

Fear leads to hate. Hate leads to anger. Anger leads to suffering.

I sense much fear in you

Peace to you
 
JonC

JonC

Moderator
Moderator
canadyjd said:
You hate “evil”?

Do you consider PSA theory to be evil? Do you consider those that have concluded scripture clearly teaches PSA theory to be evil?

If yes to either, there can be no discussion, no debate no attempt at reconciliation. There is only fear that “evil” is being taught and accepted. The RCC feared the reformation leaders would teach “heresy”.

Fear leads to hate. Hate leads to anger. Anger leads to suffering.

I sense much fear in you

Peace to you
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Interesting.

Do you believe theologies that stand in opposition to the Penal Substitution Theory of Atonement are "evil"?

What about Christitians who hold those theologies?

You hit on some good questions.

We "hate even the garments spotted with things of the flesh", we "give over to Satan" some but in love praying they will change. Interesting concepts.
 
canadyjd

canadyjd

Well-Known Member
JonC said:
Interesting.

Do you believe theologies that stand in opposition to the Penal Substitution Theory of Atonement are "evil"?

What about Christitians who hold those theologies?

You hit on some good questions.

We "hate even the garments spotted with things of the flesh", we "give over to Satan" some but in love praying they will change. Interesting concepts.
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I don’t hate those with opposing views, theological, political or any otherwise.

BTW, I was trying to be funny quoting Yoda. :)

Peace to you
 
JonC

JonC

Moderator
Moderator
canadyjd said:
I don’t hate those with opposing views, theological, political or any otherwise.

BTW, I was trying to be funny quoting Yoda. :)

Peace to you
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That was what I was wondering.

I do not hate people either. But I do think some beliefs are evil. As a faith, for example, I hate Mormonism. I believe it is satanic. But I don't hate Mormons. I feel sorry for them (they are deceived).

Yea...I liked the Yoda quote. I could tell the force was with you when I read it. :Thumbsup
 
37818

37818

Well-Known Member
1 John 5:1, Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . .

So what does it mean for one to believe Jesus to be the Christ?
 
JonC

JonC

Moderator
Moderator
37818 said:
1 John 5:1, Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . .

So what does it mean for one to believe Jesus to be the Christ?
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It implies a bit. For one, one must know what it means to be the Christ. The second part is what it means to believe.

My answer is belief includes repentance (it is faith, an actual change from turning to one's self to turning towards God, setting one's mind on Him rather than the flesh).

The reason I believe this is the OT descriptions of what it means to be a child or people of God and the basis the OT gives for God forgiving sins (repentance, turning to God, a new heart and spirit, etc.).
 
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