The true church is the body of Christ that is made up of all born again Christians rather than an organization. (Colossians 1:18,24) The true church is a spiritual entity that is not confined to a specific building or denomination. The term "church" (ekklésia) refers to a called-out assembly of believers and not an institution.
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The one "true church"
- Thread starter Mur
- Start date
Revelation 13:1-2
1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea; ->
->(sand of sea?->John was a Jewish citzen-Isaiah 10:22-23 explain whom the sand of sea are, take a look),
-> and saw a Beast rise up out of the sea->(A Gentile Beast)
-> (sea, by allegory=waters=peoples, and NATIONS, and multitudes of all tongues-Revelation 17:15), having seven heads->(the places where NATIONS are located-> this Beast is located or established in Europe, and Asia, and Africa, and Oceania(Australia), and NORTH AMERICA, the land of the current Pope, and Central America, and South America), ->
-> and ten (10) horns, and upon his horns ten crowns->
10 horns are, by allegory, 10 tribes and their 10 PRINCES->Numbers 17:2-> ruled by the esoteric and kabbalistic messiah of the Jews, he probably is from the tribe of DAN-Genesis 49:17 combined with Revelation 13:11, a false messiah->(John 5:43-47), a false lamb, in fact he is the dragon, red Dragon-Revelation 13:11 combined with Revelation 12:3-4 and 9, and 2Thessalonians 2:3-4, take a look:
->and upon his (7) heads ->(upon 7 heads of the Gentile Beast of sea) ->as main PARTNER of the red Dragon, having 7 heads and 10 horns, and 7 crowns upon his heads, ->
-> the name of blasphemy. -> This name of blasphemy is known as guide and ruler of the former and true Church of the Lord in Rome, which apostatized completely through Jewish false believers->(1John 2:18-22 and mainly Romans 1:21-25, and so on, and now will be the main partner of the Jewish esoteric and kabbalistic false messiah, the red dragon-Revelation 13:11, and so on. And now, in days ahead or days to come, the red dragon, the false messiah of the Jews, will give to the current Pope, American Pope, his power, and his seat, and great authority, in LITERAL FULFILLMENT of Revelation 13:2);
THE ROOTS OF THE BEAST OF SEA:
Revelation 13:2 - And the Beast which I saw was like unto a leopard(Greece), and his feet were as the feet of a bear(Medo-Persian), and his mouth as the mouth of a lion(Babylon): and the dragon->(the Jewish false messiah-Revelation 13:11 combined with 2Thessalonians 2:3-4 and 9) gave him (will give to the current American Pope) his power, and his seat(in Jerusalem, spritually called Sodom and Egypt), and great authority.
TO ALL: Be prepared or else get ready
1 John 2:18-22-> (85-90AD)
18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time. ->(the last two Days->Hebrews 1:1-3 combined with John 2:19 and Hoseas 6:1-3, take a look)
19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.->Revelation 13:2)
20 But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things.
21 I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth.
22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist,
that denieth the Father and the Son.->(John 5:22-23, take a look).
1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea; ->
->(sand of sea?->John was a Jewish citzen-Isaiah 10:22-23 explain whom the sand of sea are, take a look),
-> and saw a Beast rise up out of the sea->(A Gentile Beast)
-> (sea, by allegory=waters=peoples, and NATIONS, and multitudes of all tongues-Revelation 17:15), having seven heads->(the places where NATIONS are located-> this Beast is located or established in Europe, and Asia, and Africa, and Oceania(Australia), and NORTH AMERICA, the land of the current Pope, and Central America, and South America), ->
-> and ten (10) horns, and upon his horns ten crowns->
10 horns are, by allegory, 10 tribes and their 10 PRINCES->Numbers 17:2-> ruled by the esoteric and kabbalistic messiah of the Jews, he probably is from the tribe of DAN-Genesis 49:17 combined with Revelation 13:11, a false messiah->(John 5:43-47), a false lamb, in fact he is the dragon, red Dragon-Revelation 13:11 combined with Revelation 12:3-4 and 9, and 2Thessalonians 2:3-4, take a look:
->and upon his (7) heads ->(upon 7 heads of the Gentile Beast of sea) ->as main PARTNER of the red Dragon, having 7 heads and 10 horns, and 7 crowns upon his heads, ->
-> the name of blasphemy. -> This name of blasphemy is known as guide and ruler of the former and true Church of the Lord in Rome, which apostatized completely through Jewish false believers->(1John 2:18-22 and mainly Romans 1:21-25, and so on, and now will be the main partner of the Jewish esoteric and kabbalistic false messiah, the red dragon-Revelation 13:11, and so on. And now, in days ahead or days to come, the red dragon, the false messiah of the Jews, will give to the current Pope, American Pope, his power, and his seat, and great authority, in LITERAL FULFILLMENT of Revelation 13:2);
THE ROOTS OF THE BEAST OF SEA:
Revelation 13:2 - And the Beast which I saw was like unto a leopard(Greece), and his feet were as the feet of a bear(Medo-Persian), and his mouth as the mouth of a lion(Babylon): and the dragon->(the Jewish false messiah-Revelation 13:11 combined with 2Thessalonians 2:3-4 and 9) gave him (will give to the current American Pope) his power, and his seat(in Jerusalem, spritually called Sodom and Egypt), and great authority.
TO ALL: Be prepared or else get ready
1 John 2:18-22-> (85-90AD)
18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time. ->(the last two Days->Hebrews 1:1-3 combined with John 2:19 and Hoseas 6:1-3, take a look)
19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.->Revelation 13:2)
20 But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things.
21 I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth.
22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist,
that denieth the Father and the Son.->(John 5:22-23, take a look).
That's not in Scripture. There were no denominations. There was a singular institution established by Christ and the Apostles and Bishops and priests established in every place with the same doctrine.
It was a singular institution only geographically separated. Paul’s letters to the Churches were not to different denominations, but to the same Church, with the same doctrines taught by the Apostles.
I said not confined to a specific building or denomination. Don't confuse the Roman Catholic institution (confined only to that specific institution) with the church, the called-out assembly of believers, the body of Christ. (Colossians 1:18, 24)
The Roman Catholic church has a list of false doctrines that were not taught by the Apostles. I'm afraid you have been deceived.
If you read the scriptures, you see one Church geographically separated with an Apostolic government of elders and Overseers put in place by the Apostles.
They were all united in the same doctrine. Paul corrected some when they strayed from same doctrine.
The Catholic Church maintains Apostolic doctrines by Apostolic Tradition handed down.
Protestantism scattered into every wind doctrine as each man interpreted as he felt on scriptures meaning. Many human founded churches were the result.
Ascetic X
Active Member
To all the super Christians who possess the only true theology — blessed be the peacemakers, turn the other cheek, resist the devil, be kind to one another, love your neighbor as yourself, reject malice, give not place to anger, take up your cross, suffer insults without retaliation for the heavenly kingdom’s sake. We will be judged for our deeds, not our creeds.
2 Corinthians 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?
2 Corinthians 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?
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Bow Wow
New Member
Problem is even when the evidence clearly debunks something, people seldom change their mind anyway. Everybody believe they are sound interpreters but for some reason, they often disagree.
Same set of doctrine.... Great variety of senior pastor... The question... What is formed in the hearts of the leadership?
My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you... - Galatians 4:19
My aggravation is that you can have a wonderful set of religious dogma... And wonderful and terrible people under the same set of rules. When I got saved as a teenager I entered into a Pentecostal Holiness church very much alive. Our preacher was once an evangelist. The song leader and choir were excellent. We had a wonderful youth group who would travel all the time. The people would shout, run the aisles, and live a wonderful life at home as well. I thought... Oh my! I am going to stay in this state of existence until Gabriel blows his horn and I be called up to glory.
Well... Things did not work out that way. Our Senior Pastor retired and they got a plain and ordinary type of guy. I can't remember the last time we had revival. He bought radio equipment during Covid and expected everyone to listen to his plain and ordinary messages in their car. When I passed by after visiting a Southern Baptist church Sunday I only saw two cars in the parking lot.
So who am I denominational wise? How about aggravated! I do believe we have good Christian people in most Christian denominations. I do enjoy the 9AM SBC service on Sunday. I do not buy into the "One True Church" analogy as I have seen good and bad out of each movement. In this life anyway...
It is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment. - Hebrews 9:27
And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats. - Matthew 25:32
In the last days the sheep will be gathered out of many to then form the one true church.
My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you... - Galatians 4:19
My aggravation is that you can have a wonderful set of religious dogma... And wonderful and terrible people under the same set of rules. When I got saved as a teenager I entered into a Pentecostal Holiness church very much alive. Our preacher was once an evangelist. The song leader and choir were excellent. We had a wonderful youth group who would travel all the time. The people would shout, run the aisles, and live a wonderful life at home as well. I thought... Oh my! I am going to stay in this state of existence until Gabriel blows his horn and I be called up to glory.
Well... Things did not work out that way. Our Senior Pastor retired and they got a plain and ordinary type of guy. I can't remember the last time we had revival. He bought radio equipment during Covid and expected everyone to listen to his plain and ordinary messages in their car. When I passed by after visiting a Southern Baptist church Sunday I only saw two cars in the parking lot.
So who am I denominational wise? How about aggravated! I do believe we have good Christian people in most Christian denominations. I do enjoy the 9AM SBC service on Sunday. I do not buy into the "One True Church" analogy as I have seen good and bad out of each movement. In this life anyway...
It is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment. - Hebrews 9:27
And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats. - Matthew 25:32
In the last days the sheep will be gathered out of many to then form the one true church.
Yes it does matter. Because that is not all you need to do.
They're making some progress though.
"No salvation outside the Church" has been changed to one can be saved outside the Church.
They recently cut Mary out as a co-Redeemer.
In another couple of centuries they will be considered Baptists.
That is progress for them.
JESUS said: "I came not to judge the world, but to save the world".
BAD AND GOOD JUDGMENT
BAD AND GOOD JUDGMENT Romans 14.1-23 This entire chapter Paul dedicated to very common and most debated issue since Christ appearance. It is how to serve and worship GOD. People understand Holy Scripture differently and some people bend, twist, altering, and misinterpreted purposely some of...
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Wrong again, Charlie. You really need to read The Catechism of the Catholic Church before you post what the Church teaches. As Cathode has already told you, the Catholic Church has never taught Mary is Co-redeeemer or Mediatrix. If it ain't in The Catechism it ain't official teaching. Like Cathode mentioned, we will wait for you to provide evidence from The Catechism.
The Catechism is very clear about what 'no salvation outside the Church' means. Again, you can access The Catechism online. Many Biblical references to support each teaching.
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Say what?
Pope Eugene IV and the Council of Florence (A.D. 1438 - 1445): "[The most Holy Roman Church] firmly believes, professes, and proclaims that those not living within the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics cannot become participants in eternal life, but will depart `into everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels' (Matt. 25:41), unless before the end of life the same have been added to the flock; and that the unity of the ecclesiastical body is so strong that only to those remaining in it are the sacraments of the Church of benefit for salvation, and do fastings, almsgiving, and other functions of piety and exercises of Christian service produce eternal reward, and that no one, whatever almsgiving he has practiced, even if he has shed blood for the name of Christ, can be saved, unless he has remained in the bosom and unity of the Catholic Church."
I've considered Cathode to be a reliable source of Catholicism in the past, but you fall short of the mark, Walter.
Again, show us the official teaching of The Catholic Church which is The Catechism, Charlie. It's 'the reliable source'.
Magazine
No Salvation Outside the Church
Fr. Ray Ryland • 12/1/2005Listen to the audio version of this content
Why does the Catholic Church teach that there is “no salvation outside the Church”? Doesn’t this contradict Scripture? God “desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth” (1 Tim. 2:4). “I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but by me” (John 14:6). Peter proclaimed to the Sanhedrin, “There is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved” (Acts 4:12).
Since God intends (plans, wills) that every human being should go to heaven, doesn’t the Church’s teaching greatly restrict the scope of God’s redemption? Does the Church mean—as Protestants and (I suspect) many Catholics believe—that only members of the Catholic Church can be saved?
That is what a priest in Boston, Fr. Leonard Feeney, S.J., began teaching in the 1940s. His bishop and the Vatican tried to convince him that his interpretation of the Church’s teaching was wrong. He so persisted in his error that he was finally excommunicated, but by God’s mercy, he was reconciled to the Church before he died in 1978.
In correcting Fr. Feeney in 1949, the Supreme Congregation of the Holy Office (now the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith) issued a document entitled Suprema Haec Sacra, which stated that ” extra ecclesiam, nulla salus” (outside the Church, no salvation) is “an infallible statement.” But, it added, “this dogma must be understood in that sense in which the Church itself understands it.”
Note that word dogma. This teaching has been proclaimed by, among others, Pope Pelagius in 585, the Fourth Lateran Council in 1214, Pope Innocent III in 1214, Pope Boniface VIII in 1302, Pope Pius XII, Pope Paul VI, the Second Vatican Council, Pope John Paul II, and the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith in Dominus Iesus.
Our point is this: When the Church infallibly teaches extra ecclesiam, nulla salus, it does not say that non-Catholics cannot be saved. In fact, it affirms the contrary. The purpose of the teaching is to tell us how Jesus Christ makes salvation available to all human beings.
Insult me all you want, Charlie. You don't know what you are talking about.
Again, show us the official teaching of The Catholic Church which is The Catechism, Charlie. It's 'the reliable source'.
Magazine
No Salvation Outside the Church
Fr. Ray Ryland • 12/1/2005
Listen to the audio version of this content
Why does the Catholic Church teach that there is “no salvation outside the Church”? Doesn’t this contradict Scripture? God “desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth” (1 Tim. 2:4). “I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but by me” (John 14:6). Peter proclaimed to the Sanhedrin, “There is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved” (Acts 4:12).
Since God intends (plans, wills) that every human being should go to heaven, doesn’t the Church’s teaching greatly restrict the scope of God’s redemption? Does the Church mean—as Protestants and (I suspect) many Catholics believe—that only members of the Catholic Church can be saved?
That is what a priest in Boston, Fr. Leonard Feeney, S.J., began teaching in the 1940s. His bishop and the Vatican tried to convince him that his interpretation of the Church’s teaching was wrong. He so persisted in his error that he was finally excommunicated, but by God’s mercy, he was reconciled to the Church before he died in 1978.
In correcting Fr. Feeney in 1949, the Supreme Congregation of the Holy Office (now the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith) issued a document entitled Suprema Haec Sacra, which stated that ” extra ecclesiam, nulla salus” (outside the Church, no salvation) is “an infallible statement.” But, it added, “this dogma must be understood in that sense in which the Church itself understands it.”
Note that word dogma. This teaching has been proclaimed by, among others, Pope Pelagius in 585, the Fourth Lateran Council in 1214, Pope Innocent III in 1214, Pope Boniface VIII in 1302, Pope Pius XII, Pope Paul VI, the Second Vatican Council, Pope John Paul II, and the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith in Dominus Iesus.
Our point is this: When the Church infallibly teaches extra ecclesiam, nulla salus, it does not say that non-Catholics cannot be saved. In fact, it affirms the contrary. The purpose of the teaching is to tell us how Jesus Christ makes salvation available to all human beings.
Insult me all you want, Charlie. You don't know what you are talking about.
I forget? Which religious organization is it that claims the Church is salvation?
It may be of interest that I lived in Massachusetts just a few miles from several convents and monasteries that were followers of Fr. Feeney, who were excommunicated along with Fr. Feeney for teaching that only Catholics could be saved. This misunderstanding of Church teaching is why clarifying the teaching came about.
Although Fr. Feeney was reconciled to the Church before death, there are still some religious orders that remain excommunicated for holding that only Catholics can be saved.
Although Fr. Feeney was reconciled to the Church before death, there are still some religious orders that remain excommunicated for holding that only Catholics can be saved.
That's not what your early Popes said!
When did it change, or would you like for me to show you?