The great city

Rev.18:24 - "In her (the great city-17:18) was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth."

Matt.23:35-36 - "That upon you (Jerusalem) may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth..All these things shall come upon THIS generation...Oh Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killest the prophets.."


It's time for another poll, guys and galls. What is the identity of "the great city" of Rev.17-18? According to Jesus, it could only be JERUSALEM. Also, the same "great city" is mentioned in the same book of Revelation in chapter eleven and verse 8, where it says that this city was "where our Lord was crucified". Consistency is a fine hermeneutical principle!

Let'r rip...Jerusalem???? In my opinion, it could be no other!

Rome?? Not one prophet ever perished at Rome!

Rebuilt Babylon?? _ Not one prophet ever perished at Babylon, much less "rebuilt Babylon!

The Catholic Church?? - Not one prophet ever perished at the hands of the Catholic church. Biblical prophets, guys. Jesus wwasn't killed at Jerusalem. Consistency, guys, consistency.

Now, this issue of the identity of the great city is HUGE. Why?? Because, coupled with the IMMINENCY STATEMENTS of Revelation - all seven of them - it points to the first century destruction of Jerusalem. It's actually a forced conclusion. Quite plain. Indeed, Revelation's parallel, the Olivet Discourse, concerns Jerusalem and the Temple's destruction. Allusions to the Temple, priesthood, and Jerusalem abound in Rev.17-18. To be honest, I don't know how much plainer the language of Revelation 17-18 could be. Every bit of it is straight out of the Old Testament and the Olivet Discourse concerning JERUSALEM. Preterism stands on solid ground.

Jesus never promised to return "to the earth" to sit on a big chair in Jerusalem.

I will tally the votes on the identity of the great city and announce the winner tonight.

Why would you hold that the city mentioned in Revelation 17 and the city mentioned in Revelation 18 are the same city? The last verse of Revelation 17 says, "And the woman whom you saw is that great city which reigns over the kings of the earth."

When and how does this have anything to do with Jerusalem? You might have a case for the city of Chapter 18 being Jerusalem, maybe or maybe not. But the city of Chapter 17 does not describe Jerusalem.

Bro Tony

Tony,

"Rulers of the land (ge)" is a better translation for us English speaking Westerners in 2005. Rulers of the holy land. Judaea had some ten provinces with rulers over them, and Jerusalem, being the capital, ruled the land. It was an historical look at Jerusalem, the great city. Jerusalem, the Bible tells us, also played the "harlot" or whore - the same whore the prophets wrote about (read Hosea, Ez.16,23, Jeremiah, etc..). You have to plug yourself into the TIMEFRAME that Revelation was written, which was sometime "shortly" before 70 A.D., when Jerusalem, the whore, was destroyed, exactly as Jesus predicted.

Originally posted by Gerad:
"Rulers of the land (ge)" is a better translation for us English speaking Westerners in 2005. Rulers of the holy land.

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No, not what it says. It is a Hebrew phrase meaning ALL the kings of ALL the earth. 24 times it is used. Can't change it in one place and say it means only those in "the holy land". Where is THAT "holy land" phrase coming from? Not in the Bible.

Judaea had some ten provinces with rulers over them, and Jerusalem, being the capital, ruled the land.

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No, not what it says. Judea WAS one of the provinces of Rome and it's capital and center was Caesarea Maritime, not Jerusalem. Jerusalem was a center under Herod the Great, but lost its preeminence and was a backcountry city visited only once a year by the Roman Governor (at the festering time of rebellion, the Passover) for a few weeks, then he went back to his capital at Caesarea.

You have to plug yourself into the TIMEFRAME that Revelation was written, which was sometime "shortly" before 70 A.D.

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No, that's the OPPOSITE of what to do. Since we are searching for WHEN these events happen, we look at the entire package of events and THEN set up the timeframe. We don't start out speculating and then try to make Scripture fit.

When did Jesus come back? Can't stop arbitrarily at Rev 17-18, but continue on to 19:11ff and see Jesus returning, his armies fighting the 100,000,000 man army of the kings of the world. Is THAT passed?

And Rev 20 when Satan is bound and deceives the world no more. When did THAT happen?

And Rev 21 when the world/heavens are made new. Wow. I missed that in the history books too.

Preterism is a doctrine of foolish people who deny the coming of our Lord and the kingdom of our God.

BTW, Gerad, if you are NOT an active member of a Baptist church and cannot post in this thread, give me a shout. I will move this to the "All Christian" forum so you may participate.

Ditto to what Dr Bob wrote, I was going to respond personally, but there is no need to repeat what has been said.

Bro Tony

Topic moved to "Other Religions" Forum where All Christians may participate.