chickenlady
New Member
go2church- [snipped as a personal attack].
[ September 20, 2005, 02:44 PM: Message edited by: C4K ]
[ September 20, 2005, 02:44 PM: Message edited by: C4K ]
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No Bus Ministry?
- Thread starter chickenlady
- Start date
go2church,
I think you've gotten me mixed up with chickenlady. I go to a church that HAS a bus ministry, I do not intend to change, and Im in a relationship with my husband that has lasted far longer than 4 months.
Now, where in my post that you quoted did I give you the impression that I was NOT doing what I said? Why do you think that it is appropriate for you to claim that what I wrote is "typical fundamentalist nonsense?" That seems like a personal attack to me. Also, I don't think you can judge a church based SOLELY on whether or not they have your favorite form of ministry, which is what this young lady is trying to work out in her own heart. If it is run by a good, gospel-preachin' pastor, and it is not in some kind of heretical teaching, than any of these sorts of issues can be solved. Either through asking to start such a ministry herself, or going out and inviting kids in her neighborhood to come to church with her.
4His_glory, I appreciate that you did not take my post as an attack. It was not. I really did wonder why you seem to keep calling various things man-centered, and I appreciate your explanation. However, I do think that you are painting with too broad a brush here. I agree that we cannot justify a method solely based on some good results. That general principle applies in many many areas in our churches.
However, there is nothing patently unBiblical about a bus ministry, so I think in this case you CAN justify the method based on the outcome. Do you see where Im seeing the difference?
When you said that in most places a bus ministry won't work, I'd have to disagree based on my own experience....but then, you most likely hold your view based on your own experiences too, so I don't know how worthwhile that would be to point out. I can say, it does amaze me how many parents will let total strangers pick their kids up with a bus and take them who knows where. We protect ourselves through permission slips, giving the parents the church number and address, etc., still, I know I wouldn't be letting my kid go if I didn't know the people myself. But like I said, there are lots of parents out there who do. Ive seen bus ministries run successfully all over the country. In fact, I know a missionary who is strictly to bus ministries here in America, and believe me, he keeps very busy! So they are working in many places, Im glad to say.
I also realize you are not trying to condemn the bus ministry.
I think you've gotten me mixed up with chickenlady. I go to a church that HAS a bus ministry, I do not intend to change, and Im in a relationship with my husband that has lasted far longer than 4 months.
Now, where in my post that you quoted did I give you the impression that I was NOT doing what I said? Why do you think that it is appropriate for you to claim that what I wrote is "typical fundamentalist nonsense?" That seems like a personal attack to me. Also, I don't think you can judge a church based SOLELY on whether or not they have your favorite form of ministry, which is what this young lady is trying to work out in her own heart. If it is run by a good, gospel-preachin' pastor, and it is not in some kind of heretical teaching, than any of these sorts of issues can be solved. Either through asking to start such a ministry herself, or going out and inviting kids in her neighborhood to come to church with her.
4His_glory, I appreciate that you did not take my post as an attack. It was not. I really did wonder why you seem to keep calling various things man-centered, and I appreciate your explanation. However, I do think that you are painting with too broad a brush here. I agree that we cannot justify a method solely based on some good results. That general principle applies in many many areas in our churches.
However, there is nothing patently unBiblical about a bus ministry, so I think in this case you CAN justify the method based on the outcome. Do you see where Im seeing the difference?
When you said that in most places a bus ministry won't work, I'd have to disagree based on my own experience....but then, you most likely hold your view based on your own experiences too, so I don't know how worthwhile that would be to point out. I can say, it does amaze me how many parents will let total strangers pick their kids up with a bus and take them who knows where. We protect ourselves through permission slips, giving the parents the church number and address, etc., still, I know I wouldn't be letting my kid go if I didn't know the people myself. But like I said, there are lots of parents out there who do. Ive seen bus ministries run successfully all over the country. In fact, I know a missionary who is strictly to bus ministries here in America, and believe me, he keeps very busy! So they are working in many places, Im glad to say.
I also realize you are not trying to condemn the bus ministry.
NaasPreacher (C4K)
Well-Known Member
A bus ministry is a-biblical. It is like Sunday School, Ladies Meetings, VBS, etc, etc.
The Bible does not specify how we are to reach the world. If the Great Commission is truly being carried out by a ministry, and things are not being done in an unbiblical manner, than may we trust that the Lord will bless the effort.
The Bible does not specify how we are to reach the world. If the Great Commission is truly being carried out by a ministry, and things are not being done in an unbiblical manner, than may we trust that the Lord will bless the effort.
I agree with C4K's last post. A bus ministry is like anyother tool in a church's tool box. Different places have needs to be met by different tools. A screw driver need can not be met by a hacksaw. Any craftsman worth his salt has a variety of tools to meet variety of need. ESL classes any one?
Right on C4K, Bus Ministry is one method that can be part of a correct ministry philosophy, it is negotiable however, and not appropriate for every ministry.
I could be my normal cynical sarcastic self and come up with many other ministries that your church "should" be doing and claim its wrong to not take that opportunity, but I will just stick with the facts in this case. Bus Ministry is one possible ministry idea that could prove to be effective in a particular situation, it is non-biblical, as opposed to unbiblical. Just like Ushers, Pot-Providence meals, Singing hymns with an organ, Vacation Bible School, Awana, etc. They are organizational methods that provide certain benefits in our culture for outreach, they however should never eclipse the true purposes of the church, and should not be a primary reason you would either accept or reject a church. Sometimes the tail wags the dog, and in that case, maybe a Bus Ministry could become unbiblical.
I could be my normal cynical sarcastic self and come up with many other ministries that your church "should" be doing and claim its wrong to not take that opportunity, but I will just stick with the facts in this case. Bus Ministry is one possible ministry idea that could prove to be effective in a particular situation, it is non-biblical, as opposed to unbiblical. Just like Ushers, Pot-Providence meals, Singing hymns with an organ, Vacation Bible School, Awana, etc. They are organizational methods that provide certain benefits in our culture for outreach, they however should never eclipse the true purposes of the church, and should not be a primary reason you would either accept or reject a church. Sometimes the tail wags the dog, and in that case, maybe a Bus Ministry could become unbiblical.
thats ok, go2church.
Let me clarify again, I would not consider a church to be unBiblical if they did not have a bus ministry.
Ive started to notice lately some comments by people that they wouldn't go this or that church because it didnt have a "insert ministry here". I think this is the wrong reason to reject a church. If a church is strong in its Biblical stance, but for some reason doesn't have some ministry, like a youth group for instance, than perhaps God is just waiting for you to come along to start one!
I think sometimes we are expecting "ministerial maturity" in our churches, when we need to realize that the church can only grow in its outreach as fast as the people who are within its congregation.
ok, I feel much better now! Thanks for letting me "rant."
Let me clarify again, I would not consider a church to be unBiblical if they did not have a bus ministry.
Ive started to notice lately some comments by people that they wouldn't go this or that church because it didnt have a "insert ministry here". I think this is the wrong reason to reject a church. If a church is strong in its Biblical stance, but for some reason doesn't have some ministry, like a youth group for instance, than perhaps God is just waiting for you to come along to start one!
I think sometimes we are expecting "ministerial maturity" in our churches, when we need to realize that the church can only grow in its outreach as fast as the people who are within its congregation.
ok, I feel much better now! Thanks for letting me "rant."
I have belonged to two churches that have bus ministries. Done right it can be the greatest soul winning arm of the church.
As the body of Christ, we have many churches doing different things. The hand is not the same as the foot etc. Not all churches emphasize the same methods to reach the lost. Although the methods may not be the same, the direction to see lost souls led to Christ should be.
As the body of Christ, we have many churches doing different things. The hand is not the same as the foot etc. Not all churches emphasize the same methods to reach the lost. Although the methods may not be the same, the direction to see lost souls led to Christ should be.
I quite agree. My pastor has the rule of waiting until some one coems to him and says "Pastor, we need to do xyz." Then Pastor says, "Good, I've been praying for God to raise up some one to work in xyz." He's also said, "We could fill this place with kids. But, we don't have the workers. They'd wind up swing from the lights."
ccrobinson
Active Member
At my church, approximately 10% of the people who do most of the work were bus kids. It's a good ministry to get kids in, but those same buses can also be used to reach adults.
About a year ago, my preacher felt led to start bringing homeless men to church. It started with a van going to the local homeless mission and picking up as many as could be taken. They are taken to a local restaurant for breakfast, then to church. It's now expanded to where an entire bus gets filled with homeless men who consider our church their home church.
We've had many men get saved over the months, but I remember one in particular. Last summer, one of the homeless men responded to the invitation, walked the aisle and was led to Christ. The very next day, that man was hit by a car and died. If my preacher hadn't followed God's leading to bring the homeless to church, that man would have entered a Christless eternity.
About a year ago, my preacher felt led to start bringing homeless men to church. It started with a van going to the local homeless mission and picking up as many as could be taken. They are taken to a local restaurant for breakfast, then to church. It's now expanded to where an entire bus gets filled with homeless men who consider our church their home church.
We've had many men get saved over the months, but I remember one in particular. Last summer, one of the homeless men responded to the invitation, walked the aisle and was led to Christ. The very next day, that man was hit by a car and died. If my preacher hadn't followed God's leading to bring the homeless to church, that man would have entered a Christless eternity.
Bus Ministry, thing of the past? Not needed today? Doesn't work?
Hey, I have news for you. The bus ministry does work. The bus ministry is needed today, now more than ever. The bus ministry is a critical ministry that should be in every Independent Fundamental Baptist Church.
In EVERY city, a bus ministry can be run. See it is not the $100,000 home area that you are going to grow and build a bus ministry. The Bus Ministry was created for those that society cast away. Created to let kids know that Jesus loves them and hung on the cross for them, even though their parents could care less about them. Created to bring adults to church that have no other form of transportation.
If you are in the right areas, parents will often hand over their kids without even asking what time they will be back, your address or phone number. That's the kind of society we live in today and that is exactly why we need bus ministries!!!
Our church runs about 100 bus kids every Sunday. It worked 50 years ago, it still works today.
But, the Bus Ministry is not about numbers and should never be stressed out over the size of the ministry. The Bus Ministry needs to be focused on God's plan and our commission to fulfill that plan.
Evangelism is winning souls, period.
Every saved person is commanded to win souls, Matthew 28:19-20.
You glorify God in fulfilling what you are commanded to do.
That is exactly what the Bus Ministry is about. and that is one of the purest ways to glorify God.
NOW, that being said I am going to change gears and shock everyone reading this. Yes, a church can be right with God and not have a Bus Ministry. You need to read the church doctrine and see what they believe. The Bus Ministry is a program in the church. Just like Sunday School, ladies meetings, etc. The presence or absence of one or another does not impact a church's position with God. It is my PERSONAL conviction that a good church should have a Bus Ministry. Just like 4His_glory has the right not to share that same PERSONAL conviction.
What does impact the position with God is doctrinal issues like soulwinning, Bible translation, giving and all of those other components that make up a church doctrine. A Bus Ministry is intented to support a larger soulwinning effort. If soulwinning is not there, there in lies your doctrinal issue.
Now, with that being said, you also need to find out what the will of God is for your life. If you are supposed to be working a bus, then you should not go to a church that will never have a bus ministry.
So that is my answer, No the absence of a Bus Ministry does not mean a church is not right by God. As long as they have sound doctrine, they should be right.
If you are called to work the Bus Ministry and you go to a church that will never have a bus, you then may be placing yourself out of God's will. And, that would make YOU not right with God.
How can anyone have compassion for souls and not consider the Bus Ministry a key tool in personal evangelism?
Hey, I have news for you. The bus ministry does work. The bus ministry is needed today, now more than ever. The bus ministry is a critical ministry that should be in every Independent Fundamental Baptist Church.
In EVERY city, a bus ministry can be run. See it is not the $100,000 home area that you are going to grow and build a bus ministry. The Bus Ministry was created for those that society cast away. Created to let kids know that Jesus loves them and hung on the cross for them, even though their parents could care less about them. Created to bring adults to church that have no other form of transportation.
If you are in the right areas, parents will often hand over their kids without even asking what time they will be back, your address or phone number. That's the kind of society we live in today and that is exactly why we need bus ministries!!!
Our church runs about 100 bus kids every Sunday. It worked 50 years ago, it still works today.
But, the Bus Ministry is not about numbers and should never be stressed out over the size of the ministry. The Bus Ministry needs to be focused on God's plan and our commission to fulfill that plan.
First of all, Evangelism by definition is the presentation of the good news by the saved to the lost with the express purpose of winning them to Christ.
Evangelism is winning souls, period.
Every saved person is commanded to win souls, Matthew 28:19-20.
You glorify God in fulfilling what you are commanded to do.
That is exactly what the Bus Ministry is about. and that is one of the purest ways to glorify God.
NOW, that being said I am going to change gears and shock everyone reading this. Yes, a church can be right with God and not have a Bus Ministry. You need to read the church doctrine and see what they believe. The Bus Ministry is a program in the church. Just like Sunday School, ladies meetings, etc. The presence or absence of one or another does not impact a church's position with God. It is my PERSONAL conviction that a good church should have a Bus Ministry. Just like 4His_glory has the right not to share that same PERSONAL conviction.
What does impact the position with God is doctrinal issues like soulwinning, Bible translation, giving and all of those other components that make up a church doctrine. A Bus Ministry is intented to support a larger soulwinning effort. If soulwinning is not there, there in lies your doctrinal issue.
Now, with that being said, you also need to find out what the will of God is for your life. If you are supposed to be working a bus, then you should not go to a church that will never have a bus ministry.
So that is my answer, No the absence of a Bus Ministry does not mean a church is not right by God. As long as they have sound doctrine, they should be right.
If you are called to work the Bus Ministry and you go to a church that will never have a bus, you then may be placing yourself out of God's will. And, that would make YOU not right with God.
I found this to be an interesting sidebar to this discussion. If I may be so bold as to quote Jesus Himself, "For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost."
Is it not true that continuing the work which He began will bring the utmost honor and glory to His name? Pointing souls, whether young or old, to Him can certainly do nothing BUT bring honor and glory to Him.
In order to stay on thread, I have a long history of involvement in the bus ministry including many years at the great First Baptist Church, Hammond, IN. My love for this ministry is great and enduring and yet my current church membership is with a church that does not have a bus ministry. The situation is simply not right at this time for our church to have a bus ministry. Other have said it best, the bus ministry is a tool and must be used as a solution to the right problem at the right time.
I find this whole discussion incredibly "Americo-centric," to coin a word. Have you folk thought about the rest of the world at all?
If you believe that a church cannot be a good church without a bus ministry, you have just condemned most of the churches in the world outside the US outside. In many countries it is virtually impossible to have a bus ministry, due to laws, finances, etc.
In Japan I don't know a single church that has a bus ministry. The bus ministry doesn't exist here! In order just to start one I would have to have: a professional license (acquired after attending an expensive school), an incredibly expensive bus, a budget to pay for gas that costs three times what gas costs in America, a legal document proving that I have a permanent parking space for the bus (which parking space would probably cost about $200-$300 a month (make that $1000/month if you are in Tokyo), and that is just to start the whole thing. God can do anything, of course, but a bus ministry will not happen in my church. We have other priorities.
Look at the rest of the world, Americans. The Great Commission says to go into the whole world!
Furthermore, if a church cannot be a good church unless it has a bus ministry, you have just condemned every church before the 1950's, when Highland Park Baptist Church of Chattanooga began the whole thing (or whenever you date the genesis of the bus ministry movement).
John of Japan
A burdened missionary
If you believe that a church cannot be a good church without a bus ministry, you have just condemned most of the churches in the world outside the US outside. In many countries it is virtually impossible to have a bus ministry, due to laws, finances, etc.
In Japan I don't know a single church that has a bus ministry. The bus ministry doesn't exist here! In order just to start one I would have to have: a professional license (acquired after attending an expensive school), an incredibly expensive bus, a budget to pay for gas that costs three times what gas costs in America, a legal document proving that I have a permanent parking space for the bus (which parking space would probably cost about $200-$300 a month (make that $1000/month if you are in Tokyo), and that is just to start the whole thing. God can do anything, of course, but a bus ministry will not happen in my church. We have other priorities.
Look at the rest of the world, Americans. The Great Commission says to go into the whole world!
Furthermore, if a church cannot be a good church unless it has a bus ministry, you have just condemned every church before the 1950's, when Highland Park Baptist Church of Chattanooga began the whole thing (or whenever you date the genesis of the bus ministry movement).
John of Japan
A burdened missionary
The bit about which is primary, the glory of God first or soul-winning, is important enough to have its own thread. I'll start one over in Baptist Theology on this. Care to join me anyone?
John of Japan,
the point of the vast majority of the posts in this thread was precisely that a church can be perfectly right and not have a bus ministry.
Also, we were talking about American cities, and obviously when we go to foreign fields we must use methods which work according to that field.
the point of the vast majority of the posts in this thread was precisely that a church can be perfectly right and not have a bus ministry.
Also, we were talking about American cities, and obviously when we go to foreign fields we must use methods which work according to that field.
Hmm, you're right bapmom. Perhaps I over-reacted there. Forgive me, anyone out there who was offended. Or as a lady I used to know once said, "I repent in dustcloth and ashes."
The very reaction from the fine Christians on this thread shows that a bus ministry is helpful but not essential to a thriving church.
i bet everyone on this thread, on both sides of the issue, goes to a great church. God dictates through his people in each congregation what is needed to reach the lost in their community. Sometimes it is a bus ministry, sometimes not. That is why it is great to be a Baptist. We don't have to have identical churches to be in God's will. We just need to listen to God.
i bet everyone on this thread, on both sides of the issue, goes to a great church. God dictates through his people in each congregation what is needed to reach the lost in their community. Sometimes it is a bus ministry, sometimes not. That is why it is great to be a Baptist. We don't have to have identical churches to be in God's will. We just need to listen to God.