The Quaker revival

Has anyone ever looked at the Quaker religion? I’m in New Jersey and there seems to be a revival of Quakers as a legitimate church. In fact the whole of Christianity here appears to growth with the Peace religions…ie Quakers, Mennonite, etc

Interesting to see the Methodists, PCUSA, Eposcipal shrinking & closing churches.

Earth Wind and Fire said:

Has anyone ever looked at the Quaker religion? I’m in New Jersey and there seems to be a revival of Quakers as a legitimate church. In fact the whole of Christianity here appears to growth with the Peace religions…ie Quakers, Mennonite, etc

Interesting to see the Methodists, PCUSA, Eposcipal shrinking & closing churches.

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The difficulty I have always had with Quakers is they do not observe either communion or baptism. Or, at least most do not observe them as ordinances. Also, there's are Quakers (Friends) churches which are every bit as liberal as the denominations in decline you mentioned and others that are Bible believing.

Could it be what is mainly attractive to people is Quakers have long been pacificist? George Foxx University (Quaker) here in Oregon publicly announced it is LGBT inclusive and has a gay student union but is and always has been strongly committed to nonviolence.

BTW, The Salvation Army is the only other church I know of that doesn't observe baptism or communion

Walter said:

The difficulty I have always had with Quakers is they do not observe either communion or baptism. Or, at least most do not observe them as ordinances. Also, there's are Quakers (Friends) churches which are every bit as liberal as the denominations in decline you mentioned and others that are Bible believing.

Could it be what is mainly attractive to people is Quakers have long been pacificist? George Foxx University (Quaker) here in Oregon publicly announced it is LGBT inclusive and has a gay student union but is and always has been strongly committed to nonviolence.

BTW, The Salvation Army is the only other church I know of that doesn't observe baptism or communion

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So your saying that ordinance worship is critical in your view to be a church. How about discipleship?

Earth Wind and Fire said:

So your saying that ordinance worship is critical in your view to be a church. How about discipleship?

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Discipleship is essential to any church in the business of following Jesus and there are those who might argue that baptism and communion don't necessarily need to take place in a gathering of a church body.

To me, when Jesus said baptize and observe His supper they weren't suggestions. When, where, how, and how often have been debated and debated over the years on the BB. I don't think I can remember any focus being given to a church that completely ignores both of these.

I don't know what Quaker churches are like in New Jersey, but here in Oregon I don't know of any that aren't liberal. So I suspect not much emphasis on discipleship. Many Mennonite churches on the West Coast have lost their theological moorings as well.

Earth Wind and Fire said:

Has anyone ever looked at the Quaker religion? I’m in New Jersey and there seems to be a revival of Quakers as a legitimate church. In fact the whole of Christianity here appears to growth with the Peace religions…ie Quakers, Mennonite, etc

Interesting to see the Methodists, PCUSA, Eposcipal shrinking & closing churches.

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I've looked at the Quakers, and just about everybody else, too. I like the Anabaptists, Mennonites, and Quakers a lot -- well, what they used to be more than what they are now.

Earth Wind and Fire said:

So your saying that ordinance worship is critical in your view to be a church. How about discipleship?

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Surely the essence of discipleship is obeying the Lord's commands (Matt. 28:19; Luke 22:19)?
The Quaker meeting house in Exmouth UK is the most liberal 'church' in the town, which is saying something. Whether or not they are growing, I am not aware. So far as I can discern, the growing churches over here are conservative evangelical and (I am told) Roman Catholic.

Walter said:

Discipleship is essential to any church in the business of following Jesus and there are those who might argue that baptism and communion don't necessarily need to take place in a gathering of a church body.

To me, when Jesus said baptize and observe His supper they weren't suggestions. When, where, how, and how often have been debated and debated over the years on the BB. I don't think I can remember any focus being given to a church that completely ignores both of these.

I don't know what Quaker churches are like in New Jersey, but here in Oregon I don't know of any that aren't liberal. So I suspect not much emphasis on discipleship. Many Mennonite churches on the West Coast have lost their theological moorings as well.

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OK Walter, We talked about this before, please note my wife who I was partnered with for over 40 years succumbed to cancer in November… so I’ve really begun to question everything I thought I’d known, with all institutions now concentrating my re-evaluation. So far from being contented with the Medical Monopoly, the Church, the Economy etc, my eyes have become very opened. Close friends of the family ( the wife who was an angel of all Christian mercy) was cut down by a hit & run car while bringing food to a shut in. Consequently, her devoted husband committed suicide by taking pills which caused his death… out of pain & grief. I think about and when my wife died I considered doing like wise. But now I question everything. And that is my nature anyway… always was.

Here attached is a story plot about Baruch Spinoza and his findings and hisapproach. View it( or not) that’s your decision but I’d like to discuss it further if the BB would allow. And if not, if it’s still to controversial, I can find other avenues to approach the subject matter. Better yet, I will ask permission first.

BTW, my son now lives in Bend Oregon. They actually like it. However they are all atheists… they like that too.

Martin Marprelate said:

Surely the essence of discipleship is obeying the Lord's commands (Matt. 28:19; Luke 22:19)?
The Quaker meeting house in Exmouth UK is the most liberal 'church' in the town, which is saying something. Whether or not they are growing, I am not aware. So far as I can discern, the growing churches over here are conservative evangelical and (I am told) Roman Catholic.

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BEWARE

Earth Wind and Fire said:

BEWARE

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Beware of what? Of Roman Catholicism? You bet!
What seems to be happening in the UK is that many people, having lived their lives without any moorings, have found out that that way of living doesn't really work amd are looking for something with authority to cling to. Unfortunately some of them are making the error of thinking that because something is old, it is necessarily true.

Walter said:

The difficulty I have always had with Quakers is they do not observe either communion or baptism. Or, at least most do not observe them as ordinances....The Salvation Army is the only other church I know of that doesn't observe baptism or communion

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Water baptism is also not observed among hyper- and ultradispensationalists (who often go by names like 'Grace' churches or 'Bereans'). The ultras don't even do communion.

Walter said:

The difficulty I have always had with Quakers is they do not observe either communion or baptism. Or, at least most do not observe them as ordinances....The Salvation Army is the only other church I know of that doesn't observe baptism or communion

Click to expand...

Walter said:

To me, when Jesus said baptize and observe His supper they weren't suggestions. When, where, how, and how often have been debated and debated over the years on the BB. I don't think I can remember any focus being given to a church that completely ignores both of these.

Click to expand...

The Evangelical Free Church of America (EFCA) has historically downplayed, even ignored baptism!

EFCA Ministerial Conference newsletter (pdf)

Bill Kynes (EFCA pastor and Council member of Calvinist fraternity The Gospel Coalition):

"When it comes to baptism, I consider myself fairly typical in the Evangelical Free Church of America. By that I mean that baptism has not played a prominent part in my pastoral ministry."

"Commonly in our churches, one’s baptismal status has no connection to church membership or to participation in the Lord’s Supper."


Bill Hamel (EFCA President 1997-2015):

"I had the privilege of being raised in the distinctive ethos of the EFCA by godly parents."

"In the three Free Churches I attended as a child and young man, baptism was ignored"

easternstar said:

I've looked at the Quakers, and just about everybody else, too. I like the Anabaptists, Mennonites, and Quakers a lot -- well, what they used to be more than what they are now.

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My family and I buy whole milk and other food products from a Mennonite family. My home is very close to the Pennsylvania border and now they are coming to New Jersey. Nice people… I might just ask them where they worship.

Martin Marprelate said:

Beware of what? Of Roman Catholicism? You bet!
What seems to be happening in the UK is that many people, having lived their lives without any moorings, have found out that that way of living doesn't really work amd are looking for something with authority to cling to. Unfortunately some of them are making the error of thinking that because something is old, it is necessarily true.

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your speaking to someone who was born, educated and practiced Roman Catholicism for 32 years. I know better!

Walter said:

The Salvation Army is the only other church I know of that doesn't observe baptism or communion

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Those that reject/ignore/downplay one or both of those - besides Quakers, Salvation Army, Hyper/Ultradispensationalists, and Evangelical Free, there are the Christian Scientists and Unitarian Universalists.

I found this on the UUs:

"Some Christian religions have a Holy Communion ritual. In Holy Communion, each person receives a wafer and either wine or juice, with a blessing from a worship leader, as a symbol for the connection they share with Jesus. UU congregations do not have a Holy Communion, but many celebrate other types of communions...The most common ones are flower ceremony, water communion, and bread communion."

"For flower ceremony, everyone brings a flower...All the flowers are gathered together and blessed. The flowers are a symbol for the congregation...all have a place in one big beautiful bouquet...everyone takes home a different flower than the one they brought"

"For water communion, people bring small amounts of water they have collected. One at a time, everyone pours their water into one huge bowl which is placed in the front of the sanctuary...Some people...bring water from someplace far away. Other people bring rainwater from outside their home, or water from their kitchen faucet....Sharing our waters is a sign that we plan to nourish and refresh one another"

"In bread communion, people bring different kinds of bread to share. Some bring breads that are part of their cultural heritage, like pita bread from the Middle East, or Irish soda bread...all the different yummy breads brought in...[are] blessed and baskets are passed around for everyone to take a piece...This communion reminds us that we all need food to live, that we must share our one earth which feeds us all."

Earth Wind and Fire said:

OK Walter, We talked about this before, please note my wife who I was partnered with for over 40 years succumbed to cancer in November… so I’ve really begun to question everything I thought I’d known, with all institutions now concentrating my re-evaluation. So far from being contented with the Medical Monopoly, the Church, the Economy etc, my eyes have become very opened. Close friends of the family ( the wife who was an angel of all Christian mercy) was cut down by a hit & run car while bringing food to a shut in. Consequently, her devoted husband committed suicide by taking pills which caused his death… out of pain & grief. I think about and when my wife died I considered doing like wise. But now I question everything. And that is my nature anyway… always was.

Here attached is a story plot about Baruch Spinoza and his findings and hisapproach. View it( or not) that’s your decision but I’d like to discuss it further if the BB would allow. And if not, if it’s still to controversial, I can find other avenues to approach the subject matter. Better yet, I will ask permission first.

BTW, my son now lives in Bend Oregon. They actually like it. However they are all atheists… they like that too.

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I am so sorry to hear that your wife passed. I can't imagine the grief from such a loss, but I one day will.

The state of Christian churches here in Oregon is sad. Many church closings and the ones not closing are aging out. The majority of people I have worked with in Oregon describe themselves as 'spiritual' or pagan and scoff at Christianity. The one church that is rapidly growing in town is Holy Cross Orthodox Church. The majority of it's members are former evangelicals or new Christians. They are using the Episcopal churches building but are quickly outgrowing it.

I didn't find a Spinoza attachment to your post. I will certainly read it if you send a link.

One of the reasons I am on the BB is to get answers to questions. I read everything in this forum with the exception of Oseas3 and his hate filled posts. I can't stand bigotry.

I haven't been on the board much lately as my wife has needed extra time for care. I hope to have time to participate more.

Jerome said:

The Evangelical Free Church of America (EFCA) has historically downplayed, even ignored baptism!

EFCA Ministerial Conference newsletter (pdf)

Bill Kynes (EFCA pastor and Council member of Calvinist fraternity The Gospel Coalition):

"When it comes to baptism, I consider myself fairly typical in the Evangelical Free Church of America. By that I mean that baptism has not played a prominent part in my pastoral ministry."

"Commonly in our churches, one’s baptismal status has no connection to church membership or to participation in the Lord’s Supper."


Bill Hamel (EFCA President 1997-2015):

"I had the privilege of being raised in the distinctive ethos of the EFCA by godly parents."

"In the three Free Churches I attended as a child and young man, baptism was ignored"

Click to expand...

I wasn't aware the Ev Free church downplayed baptism. Nothing the UU does or doesn't do surprises me.

Walter said:

I am so sorry to hear that your wife passed. I can't imagine the grief from such a loss, but I one day will.

The state of Christian churches here in Oregon is sad. Many church closings and the ones not closing are aging out. The majority of people I have worked with in Oregon describe themselves as 'spiritual' or pagan and scoff at Christianity. The one church that is rapidly growing in town is Holy Cross Orthodox Church. The majority of it's members are former evangelicals or new Christians. They are using the Episcopal churches building but are quickly outgrowing it.

I didn't find a Spinoza attachment to your post. I will certainly read it if you send a link.

One of the reasons I am on the BB is to get answers to questions. I read everything in this forum with the exception of Oseas3 and his hate filled posts. I can't stand bigotry.

I haven't been on the board much lately as my wife has needed extra time for care. I hope to have time to participate more.

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Thank you…it is difficult dealing with loosing your best friend but I’m taking it a day at a time. Keep a very nutritious diet and spend as much time as a family as you possibly can. I will send you the Spinoza attachment privately. Be well brother.

Earth Wind and Fire said:

OK Walter, We talked about this before, please note my wife who I was partnered with for over 40 years succumbed to cancer in November… so I’ve really begun to question everything I thought I’d known, with all institutions now concentrating my re-evaluation. So far from being contented with the Medical Monopoly, the Church, the Economy etc, my eyes have become very opened. Close friends of the family ( the wife who was an angel of all Christian mercy) was cut down by a hit & run car while bringing food to a shut in. Consequently, her devoted husband committed suicide by taking pills which caused his death… out of pain & grief. I think about and when my wife died I considered doing like wise. But now I question everything. And that is my nature anyway… always was.

Here attached is a story plot about Baruch Spinoza and his findings and hisapproach. View it( or not) that’s your decision but I’d like to discuss it further if the BB would allow. And if not, if it’s still to controversial, I can find other avenues to approach the subject matter. Better yet, I will ask permission first.

BTW, my son now lives in Bend Oregon. They actually like it. However they are all atheists… they like that too.

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Sounds like you're in a crisis of faith. I am there, too.

easternstar said:

Sounds like you're in a crisis of faith. I am there, too.

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My faith is very strong… I don’t like most organized religion.

Earth Wind and Fire said:

My faith is very strong… I don’t like most organized religion.

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Oh, okay. Thanks for explaining.

easternstar said:

Oh, okay. Thanks for explaining.

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I don’t mean that in a rude way, see I just lost my wife to cancer in November and it was a battle attempting to keep her alive. She was a very joyful individual and so I really tried hard to, well you know. All I ever got from the church and many people is that they would hold her in their prayers… but that doesn’t cut the mustard, they didn’t watch her deteriorate no, they didn’t see the pain. So sure, I’m abrupt, I’m in a state of deep grief and I question much of what was done by the medical profession. Religion let me down, time after time I cried out … why my cerebral palsy sister, why my baby, why my father, mother, uncle, cousins , now wife and still no answer even when I begged on my knee’s. Now I want answers.

If you have gone through this then I could well understand crisis. Know that I’m a believer and a child of God and there must be something I’m missing. So I search for answers. I want to know more than just why… I want to know that the compassion is there and that the Lord reaches out in comfort & that’s something that hasn’t been afforded to me.

I see Spinoza as a man hurt by his church, his own people for also seeking answers. And the guy was a believer but he used his intellect to obtain answers, most the organized religions of the day disliked, so they attempted to silence him. I find some of his findings fascinating but then again others are recognized threats to many Bible believers. And again, I’m a radical Christian who wants to know the truth… the story behind the story and that’s my nature, maybe your nature as well but I don’t know you and your back story.

There are features on BB you could use to communicate , privately if you prefer& there is a feature that blocks people who become indignant to your posts so use them if you want to protect yourself from the mob… you decide. And I’m here for you if you want to open up.

Be well