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Christ the risen Saviour, not potential Saviour! 2

Dave G

Dave G

Well-Known Member
Silverhair said:
2Co 5:18 Now all these things are from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation,
2Co 5:19 namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation.

When you imply that only the saved were reconciled to God then you shortchange what the death of Christ accomplished.
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I'm sorry, but I'll have to disagree.
To me, when I declare ( not imply ) that only the saved ( God's elect ) were reconciled to Christ by the death of His Son ( Romans 5:1-11 ), I'm declaring what the Scriptures tell us:

" Therefore if any man [be] in Christ, [he is] a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
18 And all things [are] of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
19 to wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. " ( 2 Corinthians 5:17-19 ).

Please read it again, sir.
Are not the "us" and "world" being spoken of here, the exact same people whose sins were not imputed to them... and who are forgiven of all their sins as Colossians 2:13-14 states?

" And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
14 blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; "

That is why I agree with @Brightfame52 and hold that it was the elect's sins that were dealt with at the cross...
That they were reconciled to God by the death of His Son.
Everyone else whom God did not foreknow and predestinate conformed to the image of His Son ( Romans 8:27-30 ) and did not choose to have mercy on ( Romans 9:14-24 ), I believe will be judged according to their works ( Revelation 20:13-15 ).

That is how I see it, and that is what I will say should anyone ask me what I see in the Scriptures when I read them for myself.


May God bless you as always.
 
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Silverhair

Silverhair

Well-Known Member
Dave G said:
As I see it,
If the entire world is now reconciled to God, Silverhair, then no one should be in Hell right now, and no one will ever face the Lord's judgement for their sins.

Instead, we're told that there are indeed people in Hell, and there will indeed be people who will experience the torment of everlasting punishment...
and that death and Hell ( I take this to mean the contents of it ) will be cast into the Lake of Fire.

So, if "world" there means everyone, then everyone is now reconciled to God... and will never face eternal fire.

Wouldn't you agree?
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No I do not agree.

You have made the error of thinking that reconciled here equals saved. It does not. God being reconciled to man through the death of Christ, the atonement, means that God can now overlook the sins and be gracious to those that freely trust in His risen son.

God has removed all the obstacles to reconciliation which existed on his part. It is right there in the text, "God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ" and this reconciliation extends to the whole world "God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself"

Now it remains that man should lay aside his hostility, abandon his sins, embrace the terms of mercy, and become in fact reconciled to God " we beg you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God." This would be through our faith in the risen Christ. Why "so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him."

The Atonement of Christ paid for the sins of the whole world 1Jn_2:2, but the individual must appropriate that payment through faith. Rom_10:9-10

The death of Christ Jesus was sufficient to cover the sins of all mankind. But not one individual has their own account settled until they believe. If they never believes, then even though the price has been fully paid, their sins will not be forgiven.
 
B

Brightfame52

Well-Known Member
Silverhair said:
No I do not agree.
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Why not. What's the promise to them that are reconciled to God by the death of His dear Son for them here Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
 
B

Brightfame52

Well-Known Member
Silverhair said:
You have made the error of thinking that reconciled here equals saved.
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It does mean saved from their sins because they are aren't imputed to them 2 Cor 5:19

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
 
Silverhair

Silverhair

Well-Known Member
Dave G said:
I'm sorry, but I'll have to disagree.
To me, when I declare ( not imply ) that only the saved ( God's elect ) were reconciled to Christ by the death of His Son ( Romans 5:1-11 ), I'm declaring what the Scriptures tell us:

" Therefore if any man [be] in Christ, [he is] a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
18 And all things [are] of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
19 to wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. " ( 2 Corinthians 5:17-19 ).

Please read it again, sir.
Are not the "us" and "world" being spoken of here, the exact same people whose sins were not imputed to them... and who are forgiven of all their sins as Colossians 2:13-14 states?

" And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
14 blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; "

That is why I agree with @Brightfame52 and hold that it was the elect's sins that were dealt with at the cross...
That they were reconciled to God by the death of His Son.
Everyone else whom God did not foreknow and predestinate conformed to the image of His Son ( Romans 8:27-30 ) and did not choose to have mercy on ( Romans 9:14-24 ), I believe will be judged according to their works ( Revelation 20:13-15 ).

That is how I see it, and that is what I will say should anyone ask me what I see in the Scriptures when I read them for myself.


May God bless you as always.
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Dave I understand what you are saying but I have to disagree with your conclusions.

Christ was the propitiation for all the world not some of the world and no ones sins were forgiven at the cross. We are only forgiven by God due to our faith in the risen Christ.
 
Silverhair

Silverhair

Well-Known Member
Brightfame52 said:
Why not. What's the promise to them that are reconciled to God by the death of His dear Son for them here Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
Click to expand...

Reconciliation does not equal saved BF as you showed in the verse you quoted.

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
 
Silverhair

Silverhair

Well-Known Member
Brightfame52 said:
It does mean saved from their sins because they are aren't imputed to them 2 Cor 5:19

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
Click to expand...

2Co 5:19 namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation.

God has been reconciled to the world through Christ so that He can overlook our sins. We have to freely trust in the risen son to be saved.
 
B

Brightfame52

Well-Known Member
Silverhair said:
Reconciliation does not equal saved BF
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Why not ? They have no sin imputed to them 2 Cor 5:19 thats saved from the penalty of sin. Also whats promised to the reconciled in Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
 
B

Brightfame52

Well-Known Member
Silverhair said:
2Co 5:19 namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation.
Click to expand...
Yes thats the word of the Gospel. Do you teach that sinners Christ died for dont have their sins charged against them ?
Silverhair said:
God has been reconciled to the world through Christ so that He can overlook our sins.
Click to expand...
He doesnt impute them to the world Christ died for.
Silverhair said:
We have to freely trust in the risen son to be saved.
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No the truth is the saved will be given faith in the Christ that already saved them. Faith is given so the saved will trust that their sins are gone through Christ and won't be charged to them.
 
Silverhair

Silverhair

Well-Known Member
Brightfame52 said:
Yes thats the word of the Gospel. Do you teach that sinners Christ died for dont have their sins charged against them ?

He doesnt impute them to the world Christ died for.

No the truth is the saved will be given faith in the Christ that already saved them. Faith is given so the saved will trust that their sins are gone through Christ and won't be charged to them.
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BF your answers are all from your calvinist perspective. You can hold to that view or you can hold to the biblical truth but not both.
 
V

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Brightfame52 said:
Yeah and it occurred by Christs death while they were enemies, unbelievers
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LOL, your statement is non-germane. The fact Christ died for the lost while they were yet sinners is not in dispute.

This is all they have folks, non-stop nonsense.
 
B

Brightfame52

Well-Known Member
Silverhair said:
BF your answers are all from your calvinist perspective. You can hold to that view or you can hold to the biblical truth but not both.
Click to expand...
The word of the Gospel of reconciliation is found in 2 Cor 5:19 per non imputation of sin. You don't preach that , you dont preach the Gospel. And anyone whom the Lord doesn't impute sin is highly blessed and forgiven Rom 4

7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.

8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

The world in 2 Cor 5 19 is forgiven and blessed
 
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