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New Perspective on Paul revisited

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Charlie24

Well-Known Member
Martin Marprelate said:
I thought this was a helpful overview of the issue of the NPP.
Some may reject it because it is written by a woman, but I believe it is helpful and true.
www.evangelical-times.org

New Perspective on Paul revisited: A primer and warning

A movement called the ‘New Perspective on Paul’ (NPP) first began quietly reshaping how evangelicals understood the gospel back in the 1970s.
www.evangelical-times.org www.evangelical-times.org
Click to expand...

I think Paul would have been sending these folks a Nasty-gram as he did the Galatians.

Even though the issue for salvation was circumcision added to faith for the Galatians, what difference is it to make good works a requirement for salvation? I must do this or that to be saved in the end?

If we are saved, truly saved, the Holy Spirit brings about the good works in us, not us bringing the good works about oursleves.

These people are dangerous and very confused about Biblical salvation.
 
V

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
I have no idea what the New Perspectives on Paul are as presented in the link as you have to sign in to read it.

If anyone has actually read the link, please list the New Perspectives.

Earlier articles by others suggested that the New Perspectives rejected "Grace Alone Accessed by Faith Alone."
 
C

Charlie24

Well-Known Member
Van said:
I have no idea what the New Perspectives on Paul are as presented in the link as you have to sign in to read it.

If anyone has actually read the link, please list the New Perspectives.

Earlier articles by others suggested that the New Perspectives rejected "Grace Alone Accessed by Faith Alone."
Click to expand...

The bottom line is that the NPP argues there must be works to get you over the finish line.

But what did Paul say? Every man's works will be judged by fire and if the fire burns up the works (the works are not accepted/loss of reward) the same will suffer loss but will be saved despite the fire burning up the works. 1 Cor. 3:11-15.

In other words, salvation is by Grace through faith alone.
 
C

Charlie24

Well-Known Member
Charlie24 said:
The bottom line is that the NPP argues there must be works to get you over the finish line.

But what did Paul say? Every man's works will be judged by fire and if the fire burns up the works (the works are not accepted/loss of reward) the same will suffer loss but will be saved despite the fire burning up the works. 1 Cor. 3:11-15.

In other words, salvation is by Grace through faith alone.
Click to expand...

Someone will bring up James 2:24, but the wrong understanding of James will conflict with Paul on salvation and works.

If you are saved you will have works, but they are tested by the fire of God in motivation and reason. Not all of our works will pass the test.

Works are based solely on reward not salvation.
 
Ascetic X

Ascetic X

Well-Known Member
Van said:
I have no idea what the New Perspectives on Paul are as presented in the link as you have to sign in to read it.

If anyone has actually read the link, please list the New Perspectives.

Earlier articles by others suggested that the New Perspectives rejected "Grace Alone Accessed by Faith Alone."
Click to expand...
www.thegospelcoalition.org

Justification and the New Perspective on Paul

The New Perspective on Paul argues that the traditional-Protestant understanding of justification is mistaken. Robert Cara summarizes and responds.
www.thegospelcoalition.org www.thegospelcoalition.org
 
V

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Ascetic X said:
www.thegospelcoalition.org

Justification and the New Perspective on Paul

The New Perspective on Paul argues that the traditional-Protestant understanding of justification is mistaken. Robert Cara summarizes and responds.
www.thegospelcoalition.org www.thegospelcoalition.org
Click to expand...
Thanks, hopefully your linked article reflects the view presented in the OP.

Basically, as I understood your link, the NPP rejects Once Saved, Always Saved, and says we are saved by Grace, but we maintain our salvation by obedience compelled or facilitated by the Spirit.

In my view, the NPP is utter nonsense. Once God puts persons into Christ, causes them to be born anew and then indwelt forever as a pledge to their bodily redemption at Christ's second coming, the individuals are now unable to become unsaved by any action they may take.

I agree entry into God's chosen is by faith under the Old Covenant and Under the New Covenant, and not by works of the Law, by which no flesh is justified.

But once entry is gained by the unilateral action of God alone, we become powerless to alter our redeemed state as a born anew child of God.
 
J

JesusFan

Well-Known Member
Charlie24 said:
Someone will bring up James 2:24, but the wrong understanding of James will conflict with Paul on salvation and works.

If you are saved you will have works, but they are tested by the fire of God in motivation and reason. Not all of our works will pass the test.

Works are based solely on reward not salvation.
Click to expand...
Basically its a 'biblical" attempt to not believe in the doctrine of Pauline Justication
 
J

JesusFan

Well-Known Member
Charlie24 said:
That's the way I see it.

Folks that want something to brag about they did to save themselves.

Can't be any of that if we want to be with Him for eternity!
Click to expand...
When NT Wright stated dogmatically that we have totally misunderstood paul since and during the reformation, and he now will correct us, that shows you that its very bogus, and when he stated that water baptism is the entry way into salvation, and that God will use our good works to see if can keep salvation.....
 
C

Charlie24

Well-Known Member
JesusFan said:
When NT Wright stated dogmatically that we have totally misunderstood paul since and during the reformation, and he now will correct us, that shows you that its very bogus, and when he stated that water baptism is the entry way into salvation, and that God will use our good works to see if can keep salvation.....
Click to expand...

Sounds an awful like Catholicism doesn't it?
 
kyredneck

kyredneck

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Charlie24 said:
The bottom line is that the NPP argues there must be works to get you over the finish line.

But what did Paul say?
Click to expand...


Romans Chapter 2

5​

but after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up for thyself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;

6​

who will render to every man according to his works:

7​

to them that by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and incorruption, eternal life:
 
C

Charlie24

Well-Known Member
kyredneck said:
Romans Chapter 2

5​

but after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up for thyself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;

6​

who will render to every man according to his works:

7​

to them that by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and incorruption, eternal life:
Click to expand...

Those that treasure up the wrath of God on themselves are the lost who refuse to repent.

They will reap what they sow in their sins (according to their works).

Vs. 7 is referring to the ones trusting in Christ, that is their well doing.

That trusting in Christ is what causes the Holy Spirit to work in us and bring forth the fruit of righteousness.
 
Ascetic X

Ascetic X

Well-Known Member
kyredneck said:
Romans Chapter 2

5​

but after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up for thyself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;

6​

who will render to every man according to his works:

7​

to them that by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and incorruption, eternal life:
Click to expand...
them that by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and incorruption = those who are already saved and acting accordingly.

Ephesians 2:8-10

For it is by grace you have been saved through faith, and this not from yourselves; it is the gift of God,
not by works, so that no one can boast.
For we are God’s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance as our way of life.
 
V

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Romans 2:7 NASB
to those who by perseverance in doing good seek glory, honor, and immortality, He will give eternal life;

Just what is "perseverance in doing good?" As Charlie24 pointed out, this pre-salvation behavior cannot refers to "good works" as all our works of righteousness are as a filthy rags to God. Therefore, the meaning of the phrase is "trusting in Christ" with steadfast love and devotion.
 
C

Charlie24

Well-Known Member
Van said:
Romans 2:7 NASB
to those who by perseverance in doing good seek glory, honor, and immortality, He will give eternal life;

Just what is "perseverance in doing good?" As Charlie24 pointed out, this pre-salvation behavior cannot refers to "good works" as all our works of righteousness are as a filthy rags to God. Therefore, the meaning of the phrase is "trusting in Christ" with steadfast love and devotion.
Click to expand...

Doing good is believing in Jesus Christ.

When the rich young ruler asked Christ what must I do to inherit eternal life, Christ said to keep the commandments.

Christ wasn't saying keeping the Law gave him eternal life, it was impossible for him to keep the Law perfectly.

Christ was hitting at the root cause of one keeping the commandments, believing in the Messiah for his salvation.
 
C

Charlie24

Well-Known Member
Charlie24 said:
Doing good is believing in Jesus Christ.

When the rich young ruler asked Christ what must I do to inherit eternal life, Christ said to keep the commandments.

Christ wasn't saying keeping the Law gave him eternal life, it was impossible for him to keep the Law perfectly.

Christ was hitting at the root cause of one keeping the commandments, believing in the Messiah for his salvation.
Click to expand...

If man is truly trusting in Jesus Christ for his salvation, good works are sure to follow, they can't be stopped because it's a work of the Holy Spirit through Grace by faith.

But at the same time we are to heed the warning by Paul that we had be careful how we build on that faith in Jesus Christ through our works.

Those works if not passing the test of fire are burned up and we have lost the reward we will receive at the Judgement Seat of Christ.

We should settle it in the heart that what we do must be the will of God and not of our own desires and our sight.
 
C

Charlie24

Well-Known Member
Charlie24 said:
If man is truly trusting in Jesus Christ for his salvation, good works are sure to follow, they can't be stopped because it's a work of the Holy Spirit through Grace by faith.

But at the same time we are to heed the warning by Paul that we had be careful how we build on that faith in Jesus Christ through our works.

Those works if not passing the test of fire are burned up and we have lost the reward we will receive at the Judgement Seat of Christ.

We should settle it in the heart that what we do must be the will of God and not of our own desires and our sight.
Click to expand...

These works that we do as born-again believers also reaches into what we believe and what we teach others.

It will be judged. This is where the local pastor comes mainly in focus but we all will be judged on these things.
 
J

JesusFan

Well-Known Member
kyredneck said:
Romans Chapter 2

5​

but after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up for thyself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;

6​

who will render to every man according to his works:

7​

to them that by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and incorruption, eternal life:
Click to expand...
Ties into eternal rewards based upon quality of good works NOTHING to do about eternal life itself
 
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