I ask questions and try to return to the issue and you continue to avoid the topic.
Goodbye
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Dullards Anyone?
- Thread starter Van
- Start date
Goodbye
Why would God need to harden or allow people to harden themselves if they were conceived with Total Spiritual Inability?
The answer is obvious to anyone with objectivity. God would not need to harden hearts if no one but those He chose to "soften" could understand.
For anyone to deny this is an act of insanity or willful disobedience to the word of God.
The answer is obvious to anyone with objectivity. God would not need to harden hearts if no one but those He chose to "soften" could understand.
For anyone to deny this is an act of insanity or willful disobedience to the word of God.
To restate the obvious, Matthew 13:15 teaches people have suffered a "loss" of understanding as there eyes, ears and hearts have been closed, taking away the opportunity to be healed. In this circumstance, the "loss" occurred because Jesus spoke in parable because it had not been granted they they understand.
Why would God need to harden or allow people to harden themselves if they were conceived with Total Spiritual Inability?
The answer is obvious to anyone with objectivity. God would not need to harden hearts if no one but those He chose to "soften" could understand.
For anyone to deny this is an act of insanity or willful disobedience to the word of God.
You are without as doubt denying, or let's just call it what it really is, you're calling Isaiah and the apostle Paul liar's.
Did not they say "all have gone out of the way, there is none that are righteous, there is none that search for God?"
You have a serious problem with man left on his own coming to Christ, it's impossible.
You are without as doubt denying, or let's just call it what it really is, you're calling Isaiah and the apostle Paul liar's.
Did not they say "all have gone out of the way, there is none that are righteous, there is none that search for God?"
You have a serious problem with man left on his own coming to Christ, it's impossible.
You're a man straight to the point and so am I.
What is this, the 4th or 5th thread you've started on man's depravity?
But you still don't get it. Why don't you still get it?
False teachers avoid the topic, but change the topic, typically to claims to disparage their opponents. Just another fallacious argument to hide their false doctrine.You are without as doubt denying, or let's just call it what it really is, you're calling Isaiah and the apostle Paul liar's.
Did not they say "all have gone out of the way, there is none that are righteous, there is none that search for God?"
You have a serious problem with man left on his own coming to Christ, it's impossible.
From Psalm 14 all those who say God does not exist. So the question does all mean all people all the time, or just all the people when sinning are not seeking God?
And did I say people "come to Christ" all on their own? Nope so more of the same, one false claim after another.
I do say people, fallen people, as conceived, have the innate ability to understand some spiritual things, spiritual milk. That is why they are without excuse. I believe what scripture says, and not concepts like "Prevenient Grace" which is an invention to accommodate the false doctrine of total spiritual inability.
False teachers avoid the topic, but change the topic, typically to claims to disparage their opponents. Just another fallacious argument to hide their false doctrine.
From Psalm 14 all those who say God does not exist. So the question does all mean all people all the time, or just all the people when sinning are not seeking God?
And did I say people "come to Christ" all on their own? Nope so more of the same, one false claim after another.
I do say people, fallen people, as conceived, have the innate ability to understand some spiritual things, spiritual milk. That is why they are without excuse. I believe what scripture says, and not concepts like "Prevenient Grace" which is an invention to accommodate the false doctrine of total spiritual inability.
Well, I guess we just plain 'ol disagree on this, Van. I'm going to say this and let it go.
1 Cor. 2:14
"But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned."
1 Cor. 2:14
"But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned."
Does this verse say the natural person cannot understand any of the things of the Spirit of God? Nope, that is NOT what it says. We know that a natural person cannot understand the spiritual solid food (meat) of the Spirit of God. That then is the contextual, noting added meaning of the verse.
On the other hand, we know that Paul spoke to "men of flesh" meaning natural, in their fallen state, people using "spiritual milk." Conclusion? Natural people cannot understand spiritual solid food, for it is impossible for them to understand, but they can understand spiritual milk, the fundamentals of the gospel.
Total Spiritual Inability is a fiction that has been read into the scriptures by unenlightened men of the dark ages.
"But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned."
Does this verse say the natural person cannot understand any of the things of the Spirit of God? Nope, that is NOT what it says. We know that a natural person cannot understand the spiritual solid food (meat) of the Spirit of God. That then is the contextual, noting added meaning of the verse.
On the other hand, we know that Paul spoke to "men of flesh" meaning natural, in their fallen state, people using "spiritual milk." Conclusion? Natural people cannot understand spiritual solid food, for it is impossible for them to understand, but they can understand spiritual milk, the fundamentals of the gospel.
Total Spiritual Inability is a fiction that has been read into the scriptures by unenlightened men of the dark ages.
1 Cor. 2:14
"But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned."
Does this verse say the natural person cannot understand any of the things of the Spirit of God? Nope, that is NOT what it says. We know that a natural person cannot understand the spiritual solid food (meat) of the Spirit of God. That then is the contextual, noting added meaning of the verse.
On the other hand, we know that Paul spoke to "men of flesh" meaning natural, in their fallen state, people using "spiritual milk." Conclusion? Natural people cannot understand spiritual solid food, for it is impossible for them to understand, but they can understand spiritual milk, the fundamentals of the gospel.
Total Spiritual Inability is a fiction that has been read into the scriptures by unenlightened men of the dark ages.
Ok, Van, what Paull is talking about and what I'm talking about is man's total inability to come the Christ and receive salvation.
Only the hearing of the Gospel of Jesus Christ can break that barrier of total depravity, through the working of the Holy Spirit.
It is fine for you to define "total spiritual inability" as you like. I am addressing the published meaning.Ok, Van, what Paull is talking about and what I'm talking about is man's total inability to come the Christ and receive salvation.
Only the hearing of the Gospel of Jesus Christ can break that barrier of total depravity, through the working of the Holy Spirit.
There is no actual support anywhere in scripture for the fiction of "total spiritual inability!"
It is fine for you to define "total spiritual inability" as you like. I am addressing the published meaning.
There is no actual support anywhere in scripture for the fiction of "total spiritual inability!"
Ok, Van we will have to agree to disagree.
I have already agreed, you can believe whatever you want. I will continue to address the fiction of total spiritual inability.Ok, Van we will have to agree to disagree.
There is no actual support anywhere in scripture for the fiction of "total spiritual inability!"
Romans 3:11 does NOT say no one EVER seeks after God, that is an addition to the text by folks of the dark ages.
1 Corinthians 2:14 does NOT say the natural person cannot understand ALL the things of the Spirit of God. Again, "all" must be read into the text.
Is the issue that people must be exposed to God's revelation in order to believe in God? Nope - that is a deflection
Is the issue that people must be "enabled" by supernatural alteration in order to be able to understand and affirmatively respond to God's revelation? Yes.
Is the issue that people "dead in their sins" are supposed to be "unable" to respond to God's revelation affirmatively? Yes
That claim is a fiction, to be dead spiritually means separated from God and unable to achieve reconciliation. Scripture says people are unwilling not unable to believe.