The Bible Agnostic Test.

Will J. Kinney said:

Hi Scarlett. I looked at the listed topic and it is Bible Versions and Translations. That IS the topic, right?

And my name is there when I registered and many others here use a screen name as well as I do. I have no shame simply saying my name is Will Kinney, I am a redeemed by the blood of the Lamb Christians and a King James Bible believer.

If you are bored to tears with the KJB discussion, then don't pay it any attention.

Most Christians today simply do not believe that any Bible in any language is the complete and 100% true words of Gods. If you do not believe many other parts of your "bible of choice" are true or accurate, then why would you think the gospel parts are true? At what point does God start to tell us the truth?

Do you think that all "bibles" teach the same doctrines? That is a common mantra of the Bible agnostic crowd. But it is not true. And I can prove it. I have found about 40 examples of false doctrines in the modern versions and most of them are not textual but are translational.


Fake Bible Versions DO teach false doctrines - Links to some 40 examples -

Another King James Bible Believer


Fake Bible Versions DO teach and pervert several biblical doctrines of theology, and the infallibility of the Bible (any bible in any language) is a huge doctrine that most Christians do not believe anymore.

For ye have perverted the words of the living God, of the LORD of hosts our God. Jeremiah 23:36


But what usually happens is that a moderator who happens to be another bible agnostic with NO inerrant Bible in any language they can show us and they like being their own authority gets upset as seeing the KJB defended as God's complete and inerrant Bible they just go ahead and block me or kick me out of their forum.

They act like Liberal Democrats.

Click to expand...

I am not a liberal Democrat. I am a moderate Independent. I am not an Agnostic. I am an Evangelical Christian.

I am not referring to you using your name. I am referring to you using another person's real name over and over. He uses a pseudonym, so that is what we will use.

I'll pass on responding to the insults.

Call me fool whoever will. All the mistakes and contradictions we find in the KJV Bible are not what they are claimed to be.

I can't reason some of them but many of them I have seen that the Scripture explains them elsewhere.

When I run into these things in my KJV I put myself at fault in not being able to understand.

I am never ready to say the KJV Bible is at fault, with the Almighty placing His Word above His very name.

If I begin to find fault with anything in my Bible I can longer trust anything in it.

Settled this many moons ago and live by it.

The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom you had put to death by hanging Him on a cross.[NASB 1995]

The God of our fathers raised Jesus, whom you killed by hanging him on a tree.[ESV]

The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree.[KJV]

The God of our ancestors raised Jesus from the dead —whom you killed by hanging him on a cross.[NIV 2011]

The God of our ancestors raised up Jesus,whom you had murdered by hanging him on a tree.[CSB]

The God of our ancestors raised Jesus from the dead after you killed him by hanging him on a cross.[NLT]

[Acts 5:30]


Only one version got this verse right.

Will J. Kinney said:

Hi W. How in the name of common sense it the Bible agnostic test "effectively anti-KJB"?

With most of the examples I list I also give an explanation as to why the KJB got it right and the others did not when they differ from it. YOU yourself do not really believe that ANY Bible in any language you can show us is now or ever was the completer and 100% true words of God, right? IF you think you do have one you can show us, then please give us a link to where we can see it and read what it says. Can you do that for us? Not gonna happen, is it.

Thanks.

Click to expand...

God's given word is inerrant.

God promised, in Proverbs 30:5-6, Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him. Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.

Psalm 12:6, The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.

1) there are no inerrant human interpretaters of God's word.
2) there are no inerrant human translations of God's word.

SovereignGrace said:

The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom you had put to death by hanging Him on a cross.[NASB 1995]

The God of our fathers raised Jesus, whom you killed by hanging him on a tree.[ESV]

The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree.[KJV]

The God of our ancestors raised Jesus from the dead —whom you killed by hanging him on a cross.[NIV 2011]

The God of our ancestors raised up Jesus,whom you had murdered by hanging him on a tree.[CSB]

The God of our ancestors raised Jesus from the dead after you killed him by hanging him on a cross.[NLT]

[Acts 5:30]


Only one version got this verse right.

Click to expand...

From what I have seen the closed to the Greek would be

Act 5:30 The ὁ ho G3588 Art-NMS God Θεὸς Theos G2316 N-NMS of τῶν tōn G3588 Art-GMP our ἡμῶν hēmōn G1473 PPro-G1P fathers πατέρων paterōn G3962 N-GMP raised up ἤγειρεν ēgeiren G1453 G5656 V-AIA-3S Jesus, Ἰησοῦν, Iēsoun, G2424 N-AMS whom ὃν hon G3739 RelPro-AMS you ὑμεῖς hymeis G4771 PPro-N2P had killed διεχειρίσασθε, diecheirisasthe, G1315 G5668 V-AIM-2P by hanging Him κρεμάσαντες kremasantes G2910 G5660 V-APA-NMP on ἐπὶ epi G1909 Prep a tree. ξύλου. xylou. G3586 N-GNS BSB+

Act 5:30 The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom you had killed by hanging Him on a tree. BSB

Act 5:30 ὁG3588 θεὸςG2316 τῶνG3588 πατέρωνG3962 ἡμῶνG1473 ἤγειρενG1453 Ἰησοῦν,G2424 ὃνG3739 ὑμεῖςG4771 διεχειρίσασθεG1315 κρεμάσαντεςG2910 ἐπὶG1909 ξύλου.G3586 Alford

But reading through them they all convey the necessary information.

Charlie24 said:

Call me fool whoever will. All the mistakes and contradictions we find in the KJV Bible are not what they are claimed to be.

I can't reason some of them but many of them I have seen that the Scripture explains them elsewhere.

When I run into these things in my KJV I put myself at fault in not being able to understand.

I am never ready to say the KJV Bible is at fault, with the Almighty placing His Word above His very name.

If I begin to find fault with anything in my Bible I can longer trust anything in it.

Settled this many moons ago and live by it.

Click to expand...

You would place a KJV Bible above God's name? Would that not be idolatry?

Conan said:

You would place a KJV Bible above God's name? Would that not be idolatry?

Click to expand...

There is no other Bible for me or to me! I truly believe I have lying here on my desk exactly what God intended for me to have at this time in history.

Charlie24 said:

There is no other Bible for me or to me! I truly believe I have lying here on my desk exactly what God intended for me to have at this time in history.

Click to expand...

I don't' think it by coincidence the KJV came out immediately after God gave us the Reformers to place us back on track.

Scarlett O. said:

I am not a liberal Democrat. I am a moderate Independent. I am not an Agnostic. I am an Evangelical Christian.

I am not referring to you using your name. I am referring to you using another person's real name over and over. He uses a pseudonym, so that is what we will use.

I'll pass on responding to the insults.

Click to expand...

I didn't say you are an agnostic. I said you are a BIBLE agnostic. You do not know for sure what God said in many places and you do not believe that any bible in any language you can show us is the complete and 100% true words of God.

If you think you are not a bible agnostic, then just take the Bible Agnostic Test I posted instead of ignoring it.

Thank you.

SovereignGrace said:

The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom you had put to death by hanging Him on a cross.[NASB 1995]

The God of our fathers raised Jesus, whom you killed by hanging him on a tree.[ESV]

The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree.[KJV]

The God of our ancestors raised Jesus from the dead —whom you killed by hanging him on a cross.[NIV 2011]

The God of our ancestors raised up Jesus,whom you had murdered by hanging him on a tree.[CSB]

The God of our ancestors raised Jesus from the dead after you killed him by hanging him on a cross.[NLT]

[Acts 5:30]


Only one version got this verse right.

Click to expand...

Hi Sovereign Grace ( I like your name; I am also a strong believer in the Sovereign Grace of God). Not sure what you are trying to say about Acts 5:30 but James White says the KJB is wrong and actually the KJB is right, and here is why.



Another King James Bible Believer



Acts 5:30 and 10:39 - "whom ye slew AND hanged on a tree"

King James Holy Bible 1611.

"The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew AND hanged on a TREE."


Mr. James White says on page 225 of his book The KJV Controversy: "The NKJV corrects the problem seen in the KJV rendering. Peter did not say that the Jews HAD SLAIN Jesus AND THEN HUNG (caps mine) him on a tree. Instead they put the Lord to death BY hanging Him upon the tree. It is difficult to see exactly where the KJV derived its translation, as there is no "and" in the text to separate "slew" and "hanged on a tree." [End of James White's comments]

Read the whole article to see why James White is wrong and the KJB is right.

God bless.

Charlie24 said:

I don't' think it by coincidence the KJV came out immediately after God gave us the Reformers to place us back on track.

Click to expand...

I may as well finish what I started because I don't care what anyone thinks about the KJV. I simply don't care!

It's a cop-out for someone to say they can't understand the KJV.

It reminds me of a kid that refuses to eat the meal prepared for him, he wants a hamburger.

Will J. Kinney said:

I didn't say you are an agnostic. I said you are a BIBLE agnostic. You do not know for sure what God said in many places and you do not believe that any bible in any language you can show us is the complete and 100% true words of God.

If you think you are not a bible agnostic, then just take the Bible Agnostic Test I posted instead of ignoring it.

Thank you.


Hi Sovereign Grace ( I like your name; I am also a strong believer in the Sovereign Grace of God). Not sure what you are trying to say about Acts 5:30 but James White says the KJB is wrong and actually the KJB is right, and here is why.



Another King James Bible Believer



Acts 5:30 and 10:39 - "whom ye slew AND hanged on a tree"

King James Holy Bible 1611.

"The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew AND hanged on a TREE."


Mr. James White says on page 225 of his book The KJV Controversy: "The NKJV corrects the problem seen in the KJV rendering. Peter did not say that the Jews HAD SLAIN Jesus AND THEN HUNG (caps mine) him on a tree. Instead they put the Lord to death BY hanging Him upon the tree. It is difficult to see exactly where the KJV derived its translation, as there is no "and" in the text to separate "slew" and "hanged on a tree." [End of James White's comments]

Read the whole article to see why James White is wrong and the KJB is right.

God bless.

Click to expand...

I meant to say only one version got that verse wrong. They did not kill Jesus and then hang Him upon the cross. His death was via the cross.

SovereignGrace said:

I meant to say only one version got that verse wrong. They did not kill Jesus and then hang Him upon the cross. His death was via the cross.

Click to expand...

And you like James White miss the whole point by telling us that the KJB says something that it does not say. You didn't actually read my article on this verse that I gave you, right?

Proverbs 18:13 - "He that answereth a matter before he heareth it, it is folly and shame unto him."


Another King James Bible Believer



Acts 5:30 and 10:39 - "whom ye slew AND hanged on a tree"


King James Holy Bible 1611.


"The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew AND hanged on a TREE."

Question for you, SG. James White won't answer this question. How about you?

Is there any Bible in any language you can SHOW US, including “the” Hebrew and “the” Greek, that you honestly believe is now or ever was the complete and 100% true words of God? Yes or No?

If Yes, which one is it? If No, then are you honest enough to admit that is what you think? Or if you just don’t know, can you tell us that?

And just out of curiosity if you don’t believe there is such a thing as an inerrant Bible, which one do you happen to think is the best one to use even though it probably is not 100% true?

Thank you.

Will J. Kinney said:

And you like James White miss the whole point by telling us that the KJB says something that it does not say. You didn't actually read my article on this verse that I gave you, right?

Proverbs 18:13 - "He that answereth a matter before he heareth it, it is folly and shame unto him."


Another King James Bible Believer



Acts 5:30 and 10:39 - "whom ye slew AND hanged on a tree"


King James Holy Bible 1611.


"The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew AND hanged on a TREE."

Question for you, SG. James White won't answer this question. How about you?

Is there any Bible in any language you can SHOW US, including “the” Hebrew and “the” Greek, that you honestly believe is now or ever was the complete and 100% true words of God? Yes or No?

If Yes, which one is it? If No, then are you honest enough to admit that is what you think? Or if you just don’t know, can you tell us that?

And just out of curiosity if you don’t believe there is such a thing as an inerrant Bible, which one do you happen to think is the best one to use even though it probably is not 100% true?

Thank you.

Click to expand...

I don't think there is any bible in any language that is free from error, so no, there are no perfect translations, imo. The autographs are the ones who are error free, not the copies of copies, of copies, of copies...

I notice you put the King James Version on a pedestal by calling it the King James Bible. The King James is a version of the bible, not the bible itself. Notice all the revisions done down through time. If the KJV is perfect, then why all the revisions.

Here's another place the KJV greatly errs:

And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.[KJV]

And not only this, but we also exult in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconciliation.[NASB 1995]

More than that, we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.[ESV]

And not only that, but we also boast in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received this reconciliation.[CSB]

So now we can rejoice in our wonderful new relationship with God because our Lord Jesus Christ has made us friends of God.[NLT] I don't like this take very well at all.

And not only that, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconciliation.[NKJV; it had to clean up the mess made by the KJV]


None of us receives the atonement, but we do reap the benefit(s) of the atonement, i.e. reconciliation. So here is another place the KJV dropped the ball.

Will J. Kinney said:

And you like James White miss the whole point by telling us that the KJB says something that it does not say. You didn't actually read my article on this verse that I gave you, right?

Proverbs 18:13 - "He that answereth a matter before he heareth it, it is folly and shame unto him."


Another King James Bible Believer



Acts 5:30 and 10:39 - "whom ye slew AND hanged on a tree"


King James Holy Bible 1611.


"The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew AND hanged on a TREE."

Question for you, SG. James White won't answer this question. How about you?

Is there any Bible in any language you can SHOW US, including “the” Hebrew and “the” Greek, that you honestly believe is now or ever was the complete and 100% true words of God? Yes or No?

If Yes, which one is it? If No, then are you honest enough to admit that is what you think? Or if you just don’t know, can you tell us that?

And just out of curiosity if you don’t believe there is such a thing as an inerrant Bible, which one do you happen to think is the best one to use even though it probably is not 100% true?

Thank you.

Click to expand...

I am at work (shhhhhh! I work night shift in a hospital lab) and the computers have a filter on them and I cannot view that link right now. Good Lord willing I will look at it when I get home this morning.

And just out of curiosity if you don’t believe there is such a thing as an inerrant Bible, which one do you happen to think is the best one to use even though it probably is not 100% true?

The best bible to use is the one you can best understand and the Lord blesses you with. If its the KJV, then by all means, stick with. My bible translation of choice is the NASB 1995 edition.

Will J. Kinney said:

And you like James White miss the whole point by telling us that the KJB says something that it does not say. You didn't actually read my article on this verse that I gave you, right?

Proverbs 18:13 - "He that answereth a matter before he heareth it, it is folly and shame unto him."


Another King James Bible Believer



Acts 5:30 and 10:39 - "whom ye slew AND hanged on a tree"


King James Holy Bible 1611.


"The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew AND hanged on a TREE."

Question for you, SG. James White won't answer this question. How about you?

Is there any Bible in any language you can SHOW US, including “the” Hebrew and “the” Greek, that you honestly believe is now or ever was the complete and 100% true words of God? Yes or No?

If Yes, which one is it? If No, then are you honest enough to admit that is what you think? Or if you just don’t know, can you tell us that?

And just out of curiosity if you don’t believe there is such a thing as an inerrant Bible, which one do you happen to think is the best one to use even though it probably is not 100% true?

Thank you.

Click to expand...

If the KJV is inerrant, then there should only be the 1611 version.

Will J. Kinney said:

If you think you are not a bible agnostic, then just take the Bible Agnostic Test I posted instead of ignoring it.

Click to expand...

Your test is invalid since it involves use of fallacies. Your bogus test does not prove what you allege. According to your own test, you yourself would be a bible agnostic concerning before 1611. The Scriptures do not teach that the word of God today is bound to the textual criticism decisions, Bible revision decisions, and translation decisions of one exclusive group of doctrinally-unsound Church of England men in 1611.

I was attending some sessions of the King James Bible Research Council National Conference held in King, NC, yesterday.

You unsoundly and improperly try to condemn believers who believe actual scriptural truths as being bible agnostics. In effect, you may be bearing false witness with your incorrect, non-scriptural test.

It can be properly concluded from the Scriptures that God has not spoken words added by men (Deut. 4:2, Deut. 12:32, Prov. 30:6, Rev. 22:18). Since the law or word of the LORD is perfect (Ps. 19:7, James 1:25) and since perfection by definition would exclude the presence of even one imperfection, would imperfect renderings made by men or any errors introduced by men whether copiers, printers, or translators be identical to the perfect words of God given to the prophets and apostles? Since the statues or words of the LORD are right (Ps. 19:8, Ps. 33:4) and since the words of the LORD are true (Ps. 19:9, John 17:17, Ps. 119:160), it can be soundly and scripturally concluded that any wrong words or errors introduced by imperfect men in copying, in printing, or in translating would not be the absolutely pure words of God. It would be a sound, righteous judgment based on stated scriptural truths to maintain that any errors introduced by men are not words inspired by God. Therefore, any error introduced by a copier, editor, printer, or whomever in copies of Scripture can be and should be corrected. It could also be soundly concluded that any words perverted, diminished, or mistranslated by men are not actual words spoken or given by God (Jer. 23:36, Deut. 4:2, Jer. 23:28, Deut. 12:32, 2 Cor. 2:17, Jer. 23:16).

The translators of the KJV certainly didn't consider their version to be uniquely excellent.
An extract from The Translators to the Readers (written by the translators, this appeared in full in the original 1611 printing):

'..... We do not deny, nay, we affirm and avow, that the very meanest translation of the Bible in English set forth by men of our profession [i.e. linguists M.M.] (for we have seen none of the whole Bible as yet) containeth the word of God, nay, is the word of God.'

The Reformer Heinrich Bullinger famously wrote, 'The preaching of the word of God is the word of God,' yet in preaching one must perforce use one's own words to make one's points. Yet if the preaching is based on God's words, those who hear it must accept it as the very word of God if they are to be saved (c.f. 1 Thessalonians 1:4-6; 2:13).

I am not going to be foisting 17th Century language upon the congregation at my church. Others may do so if they wish, and God bless them in the doing of it, but the N.T. was written in koine Greek, the language of the people, not in classical Greek, the language of the scholars, and the Bible needs to be written so that it can be understood readily To expect that God will work on the hearts of people who cannot understand His word seems to me to be testing Him, which His word forbids (Matthew 4:7).