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Dispensationalism

Alan Dale Gross

Alan Dale Gross

Active Member
JD731 said:
as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;
6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs
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The Mystery Revealed in this book is the making of twain one man, i.e., the Jews and Gentiles are viewed on equal footing while they join together in making up the membership of one of the Lord's church bodies, like this church body in Ephesus.

The Jews and Gentiles are One in Christ, and One in Fellowship, Worship, and Service, through New Testament churches of the Lord.

11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;

12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;

15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.

18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father."
 
J

JD731

Well-Known Member
Alan Dale Gross said:
The Mystery Revealed in this book is the making of twain one man, i.e., the Jews and Gentiles are viewed on equal footing while they join together in making up the membership of one of the Lord's church bodies, like this church body in Ephesus.

The Jews and Gentiles are One in Christ, and One in Fellowship, Worship, and Service, through New Testament churches of the Lord.

11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;

12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;

15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.

18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father."
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What's the point?
 
Alan Dale Gross

Alan Dale Gross

Active Member
JD731 said:
People who reject the dispensational framework of the scriptures are rejecting the key that unlocks the mysteries of God.
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There is no "framework of the scriptures", apart from, "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:".

Notice, it says "all scripture" and not someone else's idea about prohibiting certain folks from reading different portions of scripture by telling them, "that book is not written to you."

For example, they are those who would try to tell you, "the book of Matthew was written exclusively for the Jews", and they seem like they're certain that's the way it is.

Then, you watch God make a fool out of them, by writing things like, in Matthew 1:" 22; "Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying,

23; "Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us."

Do I really have to explain to you the point that is there in those verses? that would make the strong suggestion that the book of Matthew is not only written to the Jews?

JD731 said:
The only way to have these truths made known to the human mind is to believe the words God has given to us and in order to believe the words is to have them taught by the Spirit of Christ who God has given as a gift to those who have believed his words.
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Run in by me again about how you come up there being an Earthly Reign of Jesus you always talk about, that's going to be 'a thousand years'.

The Bible says nothing in Revelation 20, where 'a thousand years' is related to Jesus' Reign, where that Reign of Jesus was going to take place on Earth.

JD731 said:
Paul calls this "my gospel" a total of 7 times in his 13 letters and the gospel of God another 3 times
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Paul defines, "the Gospel", where he says here, "I declare unto you the gospel," that "the Gospel" is "how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 4; "And that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the scriptures,"

in I Corinthians 15;

1; "Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;

2; "By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

3; "For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received,
how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

4; "And that he was buried,
and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:"

JD731 said:
3 How that by revelation (when he did not know anything but Jesus Christ and him crucified) he made known unto me the mystery;
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What are you trying to say that you think that "mystery" is?

JD731 said:
8 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;
9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:
10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,
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"to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery"

"the manifold wisdom of God"

the fellowship of the mystery

And what that 'mystery' was is described in verse 6, just before these:

JD731 said:
6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:
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"the Gentiles should be fellowheirs...", of "the promise" given to Abraham.

"of the same body", Jews and Gentiles.

"partakers of His promise in Christ by the gospel", more of the Gentiles will be saved like the Jewish remnant, with both of them now being heirs and partakers of His Promise.

"the fellowship of the mystery"
The fellowship now shared between the Jews and the Gentiles.

JD731 said:
Religious men who study books and literature that someone else writes and do not get the revelation of these mysteries for themselves from God and other Spirit filled men and dismiss the divisions of the Scriptures into the dispensational framework
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Who came up with, "the divisions of the Scriptures into the dispensational framework", because the Bible doesn't teach anything about such 'divisions'.

JD731 said:
God has shown the world that you don't believe the words, and the mysteries of the faith are hidden in those words, he himself chose. You changed the words and deleted thousands of them in some cases and you have eliminated the way that God says in 1 Cor 2 of making the mysteries known.
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"the mysteries of the faith are 'hidden' in those words"(?)

What is 'hidden'?

And where are those 'hidden' mysteries in those words?

JD731 said:
You will never understand the rapture of the church because you don't believe the words.
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Everyone is going to enjoy the suffering, as a goat, or blessedness, of the sheep, when the Lord Returns at any moment and that will be the End of the World, according to God's Word.

JD731 said:
You will not be able to see the church and how is is predestined to be glorified at the rapture when it is gathered together by the Lord in the air and then translated from earth to the Father's house, where there are many mansions just before he begins the 7 fold purification of his covenant nation Israel on the earth in preparation for his earthly kingdom.
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Where are these things taught in the Bible?

"You will not be able to see the church

and how it is predestined to be glorified

at the rapture."

"just before he begins the 7 fold purification of his covenant nation Israel on the earth"

"in preparation for his earthly kingdom."


Do you have "the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries"?
JD731 said:
1 Cor 13:2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries
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E

easternstar

Active Member
Ascetic X said:
Romans 11:1-2

1. I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.

2. God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew.
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I don't believe He has cast them away, either. But I don't believe they are the center of history. I believe the church is that, not a mere parenthesis in history.
 
E

easternstar

Active Member
John of Japan said:
I am a dispensationalist. I believe the Gospel as presented in the Bible in 1 Cor. 15: Christ died for our sins according the Scriptures, with the burial proving that, and then He rose bodily from the grave, as proven by 500 witnesses. Do you believe some other gospel?

And please enlighten us. How is the "dispensational scheme," as you put it, a "denial of the work of Christ"? Christ and His glory is at the center of dispensationalism. I believe in the incarnation, virgin birth, perfect and sinless life, substitutionary atonement by the death on the cross for our sins, resurrection, and second coming of Christ. Do you believe in something different about Christ?
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What I don't believe is that Israel is the real focus of God, and the church just a parenthesis to be taken out of here so God can deal with Israel. I don't believe God would approve of the reinstitution of animal sacrifices, and I don't believe there are two paths to salvation, one for Gentiles and another for the Jews.
 
E

easternstar

Active Member
John of Japan said:
I'd love for easternstar to stand up and be counted as to why he/she is so nasty against dispensationalists. Apparently he doesn't think we can be saved. Then there are kyredneck and SovereignGrace who who gave him thumbs, up apparently agreeing that we cannot be saved since we are dispensationalists. Stand up and be an adult. All three of you, tell me howI have denied the true gospel and the work of Christ by being a dispensationalist.
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I think you can be saved, nowhere did I say otherwise.
 
E

easternstar

Active Member
Ascetic X said:
In post #44, @easternstar made this bizarre statement:”Wouldn't say the Mosaic sacrifices were blasphemous, but they weren't instituted by God, either.”

Does easternstar think Leviticus is apocrypha?
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I believe Jeremiah 7:22; Hosea 6:6; Micah 6:6-8, and our Lord Jesus's words in Matthew 9:13, recalling and quoting these OT scriptures.
 
E

easternstar

Active Member
JD731 said:
People who reject the dispensational framework of the scriptures are rejecting the key that unlocks the mysteries of God. There is no excuse for it except ignorance and unbelief. The only way to have these truths made known to the human mind is to believe the words God has given to us and in order to believe the words is to have them taught by the Spirit of Christ who God has given as a gift to those who have believed his words. You cannot have one without the other.

Paul, one of the most brilliant minds ever on earth said this in the context of the mystery of God.

1 Co 2:1 And I, brethren, when I came to you, came not with excellency of speech or of wisdom, declaring unto you the testimony of God.
2 For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.

That is where everyone must begin no matter how smart you are.

He goes on to say this.

6 Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:
7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:

Paul wrote these words to this church in 54 AD but because of their carnality, demonstrated by their division over personalities, he could not teach them the mystery of Christ and it was not until 60 AD that he taught it to a much more mature church, the Ephesians. You should read Eph 3 now.

Paul calls this "my gospel" a total of 7 times in his 13 letters and the gospel of God another 3 times and whether anyone likes it or not, the number 10 is associated metaphorically with gentiles and has a specific application. It is the gospel of grace and in Ephesians he said this about it.

Ep 3:22 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:
3 How that by revelation (when he did not know anything but Jesus Christ and him crucified) he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
5 Which in other ages (that is the OT ages) was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;
6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:
7 Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.
8 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;
9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:
10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,
11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:

Religious men who study books and literature that someone else writes and do not get the revelation of these mysteries for themselves from God and other Spirit filled men and dismiss the divisions of the Scriptures into the dispensational framework might as well say they are from that part of the Christian religion that does not believe the words of the scriptures and has chosen men they consider to be the wise men of the world as their teachers

God has shown the world that you don't believe the words, and the mysteries of the faith are hidden in those words, he himself chose. You changed the words and deleted thousands of them in some cases and you have eliminated the way that God says in 1 Cor 2 of making the mysteries known. You will never understand the rapture of the church because you don't believe the words. You will not be able to see the church and how is is predestined to be glorified at the rapture when it is gathered together by the Lord in the air and then translated from earth to the Father's house, where there are many mansions just before he begins the 7 fold purification of his covenant nation Israel on the earth in preparation for his earthly kingdom.

1 Cor 4:1 Let a man so account of us, as of the ministers of Christ, and stewards of the mysteries of God.
2 Moreover it is required in stewards, that a man be found faithful.
3 But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged of you, or of man's judgment: yea, I judge not mine own self.
4 For I know nothing by myself;

1 Cor 13:2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries

They were all revealed because he started out knowing nothing.

I will start a thread later and we can talk about some of these mysteries.
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So, you say that those who reject dispensationalism are ignorant unbelievers. Dispensationalism is a perversion of the Gospel.
 
SovereignGrace

SovereignGrace

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
easternstar said:
I believe Jeremiah 7:22; Hosea 6:6; Micah 6:6-8, and our Lord Jesus's words in Matthew 9:13, recalling and quoting these OT scriptures.
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I would say that God did not delight in these offerings...in fact, that is what His word says...yet it was He who told Moses on Mount Sinai what each sacrifice needed to contain in regards to what animals were to be slaughtered for the sacrifice, and that they were to be without spot or blemish. It had to be the very best of the herd or flock that was to be sacrificed. Its true that the blood of these animals could not do away with sin[Hebrews 10:4],which showed how inadequate they were, but these all pointed to Christ and His one time sacrifice for all time, and met their fulfillment in Him. This was God giving them a teaching lesson, IMO. But I would say it was God who instituted these sacrifices, but not as a means of salvation, but as a teaching lesson.
 
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