Which Jesus? Why the Bible version issue matters.

easywolf32 said:

Just think about it, why would these deceiving perverts want these verses out of your bibles. Let alone the thousands of words that are missing all over the place. I mean if you have an IQ of over 5 you can clearly see or research this stuff all over the internet. They don't want your bible saying Jesus is God, wake up. And if you bothered noticing, many of these KEY verses are also key Salvation verses and other important Christian Doctrine. The apostates all over these boards are also quite hilarious, bumbling fools to be honest. But God Almighty will not be mocked.

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Hmmmm......"deceiving perverts"...."if you have the IQ over 5"......"apostates all over this board are hilarious, bumbling fools"

If you are a King James Onlyist, that's perfectly fine and your business. BUT how can you make these ugly judgments against people you don't even know using "charts" that you did not create yourself - you only copied and pasted? You are just as hateful and mean-spirited and rude as the OP. And you've only been here for less than one day.

If you speak one more hateful word, let me tell you what I told the OP, I will come out of my moderator hiding and will ban you.

I know you think we are all going to hell because we don't believe as you, but let me tell you this. The Baptist mission board estimates through much research that there are 158.000 people dying and going to hell EVERY DAY. And it isn't because they don't read the King James Bible.

It's because they don't know Jesus Christ. I researched you and found you have been on this King James Only deal since at least 2009. All I did was to Google your screen name. What have you been doing since that time to reach these 158,000 DAILY hellbound people for Christ?

instead of bashing people you don't know - MOST, MOST of whom admire the King James, but also read other versions, why don't you direct your endeavors to more fruitful things?

I'm serious about the banning. I'm sick of the hatefulness.

Scarlett O. said:

Hmmmm......"deceiving perverts"...."if you have the IQ over 5"......"apostates all over this board are hilarious, bumbling fools"

How can you make these ugly judgments against people you don't even know using "charts" that you did not create yourself - you only copied and pasted? You are just as hateful and mean-spirited and rude as the OP. And you've only been here for less than one day.

If you speak one more hateful word, let me tell you what I told the OP, I will come out of my moderator hiding and will ban you.

I know you think we are all going to hell because we don't believe as you, but let me tell you this. The Baptist mission board estimates through much research that there are 158.000 people dying and going to hell EVERY DAY. And it isn't because they don't read the King James Bible.

It's because they don't know Jesus Christ. I researched you and found you have been on this King James Only deal since at least 2009. All I did was to Google your screen name. What have you been doing since that time to reach these 158,000 hellbound people for Christ?

instead of bashing people you don't know - MOST, MOST of whom admire the King James, but also read other versions, why don't you direct your endeavors to more fruitful things?

I'm serious about the banning. I'm sick of the hatefulness.

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From my understanding, he's claiming the verses in his chart are not used in the those Bibles listed. He has Matthew 17:21 as non-inclusive in the NIV. I looked it up in the NIV and it is there.

Foxmeister said:

From my understanding, he's claiming the verses in his chart are not used in the those Bibles listed. He has Matthew 17:21 as non-inclusive in the NIV. I looked it up in the NIV and it is there.

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Brother, that's because he, odds are, has not researched the chart nor why the versions are different where they ARE actually different. He has just copied and pasted and slapped everyone in the face with it.

Foxmeister said:

From my understanding, he's claiming the verses in his chart are not used in the those Bibles listed. He has Matthew 17:21 as non-inclusive in the NIV. I looked it up in the NIV and it is there.

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From the links, the BLB that is linked in every list, the reference shows a footnote and absence. The footnote states that there is a reading in some editions.
I cannot find which edition the BLB is using.

Scarlett O. said:

Brother, that's because he, odds are, has not researched the chart nor why the versions are different where they ARE actually different. He has just copied and pasted and slapped everyone in the face with it.

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That's often the case when someone finds something that fits their narrative. They don't fact check it to make sure it's correct before posting it.

This brings up an interesting point how the Bible warns us of false prophets. Let's face the fact there are many of them out there, like those who preach prosperity and not salvation. Joel Osteen is a good example of that. His following is numerous because he tickles their ears with what they want to hear. Then there are those like Paula White (Trump's personal pastor and his director of faith) who are part of this New Apostolic Reformation. She believes she can declare ground where she goes to be holy ground. She compares Trump to Jesus. Heresy.

We are to fact check the things pastors say by getting into our Bible and studying it.

Foxmeister said:

That's often the case when someone finds something that fits their narrative. They don't fact check it to make sure it's correct before posting it.


We are to fact check the things pastors say by getting into our Bible and studying it.

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It's that way with bad science, bad Christian teachings, bad parenting, bad preaching, bad medical professions and more.

I'm in my 60's and I see more and more people all the time who believe everything that agrees with their already embraced beliefs. I've done it. All have done it.

We need to stop.

Scarlett O. said:

Hmmmm......"deceiving perverts"...."if you have the IQ over 5"......"apostates all over this board are hilarious, bumbling fools"

If you are a King James Onlyist, that's perfectly fine and your business. BUT how can you make these ugly judgments against people you don't even know using "charts" that you did not create yourself - you only copied and pasted? You are just as hateful and mean-spirited and rude as the OP. And you've only been here for less than one day.

If you speak one more hateful word, let me tell you what I told the OP, I will come out of my moderator hiding and will ban you.

I'm serious about the banning. I'm sick of the hatefulness.

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When I see anger and arrogance exhibited in hostility, insults, and wild accusations, the rest of what they say is of no interest to me. Obviously this easywolf32 has wasted a lot of time playing games and getting emotionally bent out of shape by them.

Salty said:

would help if you linked that post/thread

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Foxmeister said:

Here's John 7:8-10 from KJV.
8 Go ye up unto this feast: I go not up yet unto this feast: for my time is not yet full come. 9 When he had said these words unto them, he abode still in Galilee. 10 But when his brethren were gone up, then went he also up unto the feast, not openly, but as it were in secret.

NIV
8 You go to the festival. I am not going up to this festival, because my time has not yet fully come.” 9 After he had said this, he stayed in Galilee. 10 However, after his brothers had left for the festival, he went also, not publicly, but in secret.

The only differences I see between the two here are KJV uses Old English and the NIV the English we use today. The meaning is the same in both.

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I go not up yet" is not the same as a definitive "I am not going."
While both phrases share a common negative meaning at the exact moment they are spoken, they differ in intent and future possibility. The phrase "I go not up yet" specifically implies a temporary delay rather than a final refusal. So, they don't say the same thing and are not the same meaning. Just saying.

Baptist4life said:

I go not up yet" is not the same as a definitive "I am not going."
While both phrases share a common negative meaning at the exact moment they are spoken, they differ in intent and future possibility. The phrase "I go not up yet" specifically implies a temporary delay rather than a final refusal. So, they don't say the same thing and are not the same meaning. Just saying.

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What a poor attempt in trying to prove yourself to be correct by deliberately cutting the sentence of the NIV version short. The entire sentence is, "I am not going up to this festival, because my time has not yet fully come." This is a temporary delay. And he did go. He went later in secret, choosing to avoid premature confrontation with opponents who wanted him dead. So, the NIV version like the KJV version do say the same thing.

Baptist4life said:

I go not up yet" is not the same as a definitive "I am not going."
While both phrases share a common negative meaning at the exact moment they are spoken, they differ in intent and future possibility. The phrase "I go not up yet" specifically implies a temporary delay rather than a final refusal. So, they don't say the same thing and are not the same meaning. Just saying.

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There is, from what I have read, some obvious “cultural baggage” that is lost in the translation that would have been obvious to anyone Jewish living at the time. There was a “Feast of Booths” that was going to occur about that time (just before Passover) that created timing issues for traveling to Jerusalem and getting ready. One could not travel on the festival and one needed to have the “booth” built before the festival. That created TWO time windows of opportunity to arrive at Jerusalem.

1) long enough before to build the Booth and celebrate the Feast of Booths in Jerusalem.
2) after the start of Passover Week (and the feast) when you could travel again.

Jesus’ brothers were going to Jerusalem BEFORE the start
Jesus arrived in the middle of the week (remember people were asking if he would come as they were celebrating).

That basic information (that people attending Passover in Jerusalem would have obviously known) adds texture to the exchange that was recorded.

But when his brethren were gone up, then went he also up unto the feast, not openly, but as it were in secret.

atpollard said:

“Feast of Booths” that was going to occur about that time (just before Passover)

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Booths is a feast that is about October and Passover is April.
They are opposite ends of the Calendar. If you can say that booths is just before Passover, you could be as accurate saying that Passover is right before Booths also.

Ben1445 said:

Booths is a feast that is about October and Passover is April.
They are opposite ends of the Calendar. If you can say that booths is just before Passover, you could be as accurate saying that Passover is right before Booths also.

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My leaky memory … but there IS something going on that limits travel days and creates back to back feasts. (So maybe not booths). However, I noticed that you made the effort to say I was wrong, but not the effort to provide the correct festival name (which is enlightening in itself).

atpollard said:

My leaky memory … but there IS something going on that limits travel days and creates back to back feasts. (So maybe not booths). However, I noticed that you made the effort to say I was wrong, but not the effort to provide the correct festival name (which is enlightening in itself).

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There are three feasts that require attendance at the temple.
Passover, Weeks, and Booths.

The feast of weeks is Pentecost and is 50 days after Passover.

I’m not sure what is the travel conflict. I have never heard anything about difficulty with attending the Passover because of another feast.
I was hoping you would clear that up.

I was hoping that you would enlighten me.

easywolf32 said:

These new age bibles are abominations in so many places, it ain't funny, and pretty much need to be blind not to see it.

Revelation 1:11
KJV: Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last:
NASB, NIV, ESV: Removed

Ephesians 3:9
KJV: who created all things by Jesus Christ:
NASB, NIV, ESV: Removed

Hundreds more examples.

NKJV? Not much better. Jesus slips down from God’s “Son” and “child” to merely a ‘servant’ (e.g. see Acts 3:13, 3:26, 4:27, 4:30).
Changes book of Revelation 600 times. NKJV omits the word “Lord” 66 times. NKJV omits the word “God” 51 times. NKJV omits the word “heaven” 50 times. NKJV omits the word “repent” 44 times. NKJV omits the word “blood” 23 times. NKJV omits the word “hell” 22 times. NKJV omits the word “JEHOVAH” entirely. NKJV omits the word “new testament” entirely. NKJV omits the word “damnation”.

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Another one of them on here to put us in our place I see.

easywolf32 said:

Just think about it, why would these deceiving perverts want these verses out of your bibles. Let alone the thousands of words that are missing all over the place. I mean if you have an IQ of over 5 you can clearly see or research this stuff all over the internet. They don't want your bible saying Jesus is God, wake up.

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Who doesn't want your Bible saying Jesus is God? Why, I do believe it's you!

Titus 2:13, K.J.V. Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ.’

Titus 2:13, N.K.J.V. 'Looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Saviour, Jesus Christ’ (other modern versions are similar).

2Peter 1:1b, K.J.V. ‘…..To them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ.’

2Peter 1:1b, N.K.J.V. ‘….To those who have obtained like precious faith with us by the righteousness of our God and Saviour Jesus Christ have obtained a faith as precious as ours’ (other modern versions are similar).

The only modern translation that supports the K.J.V. in these two texts is the New World Translation of the Jehovah’s Witnesses!
I did mention this to Mr Kenny the last time he posted here, but he preferred not to answer.

A couple of other points about the KJV:

1. The English language, like every other, has changed over the past four hundred years. Words alter their meanings over time. In 2Thes 2:7, the K.J.V. translates, ‘Only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.’ The word ‘let’ in the 17th Century, meant to restrain or hinder; today, of course, it means ‘allow.’ Therefore the verse means the exact opposite of what the A.V. says it means. The N.I.V. (and other modern versions) translate correctly, ‘But the one who now holds it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way.’

2. Some of the language in the K.J.V. is scarcely comprehensible even allowing for the archaic language. Consider Ezekiel 41:7. ‘And there was an enlarging, and a winding about still upward to the side chambers; for the winding about of the house went still upward round about the house: therefore the breadth of the house was still upward, and so increased from the lowest chamber to the highest by the midst.’ This may be a word-for-word translation, but what on earth does it mean? A translation that is so literal that no one can understand it is of limited use.

I studied for three years with people who were KJV-only (though in a much saner way that those posting on this thread). They were very helpful to me in many ways, but as a result, I switched from the N.I.V. to the K.J.V. for my private reading and study for around a year, but although I am well-read in Shakespeare and other older literature, I found that my eagerness to read and study the Bible was fading and therefore switched to the N.K.J.V. I have never regretted that move.

Martin Marprelate said:

A couple of other points about the KJV:

1. The English language, like every other, has changed over the past four hundred years. Words alter their meanings over time. In 2Thes 2:7, the K.J.V. translates, ‘Only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.’ The word ‘let’ in the 17th Century, meant to restrain or hinder; today, of course, it means ‘allow.’ Therefore the verse means the exact opposite of what the A.V. says it means. The N.I.V. (and other modern versions) translate correctly, ‘But the one who now holds it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way.’

2. Some of the language in the K.J.V. is scarcely comprehensible even allowing for the archaic language. Consider Ezekiel 41:7. ‘And there was an enlarging, and a winding about still upward to the side chambers; for the winding about of the house went still upward round about the house: therefore the breadth of the house was still upward, and so increased from the lowest chamber to the highest by the midst.’ This may be a word-for-word translation, but what on earth does it mean? A translation that is so literal that no one can understand it is of limited use.

I studied for three years with people who were KJV-only (though in a much saner way that those posting on this thread). They were very helpful to me in many ways, but as a result, I switched from the N.I.V. to the K.J.V. for my private reading and study for around a year, but although I am well-read in Shakespeare and other older literature, I found that my eagerness to read and study the Bible was fading and therefore switched to the N.K.J.V. I have never regretted that move.

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Those are the main reasons, along with false friends, that show to us that God never intended ANY translation to be THE standard and only one to be used, as over time all languages change in meaning and understanding , so even the 1611 translators understood that in the future their own work must be built upon and revised to reflect those changes