What did the "Reformers" reform that needed reforming??

Walter said:

Probably because of his trying to take James out of the New Testament and I know you know why he would want to do so. I don't like to speak for people but Cathode's conclusion that sola fide is wrong is probably based on the following. First, because the Bible never says it anywhere. In fact it says just the opposite. Second, because Luther inserted the word “alone” in his German translation, there in Romans 3, although he knew perfectly well that the word “alone” was not in the Greek. Nowhere did the Holy Spirit ever inspire the writers of Scripture to say we’re saved by faith alone. Paul teaches we’re saved by faith, but in Galatians he says we’re saved by faith working in love.

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If you had looked at the context you would have seen that Paul was contrasting works with faith. The faith we have in Christ Jesus is expressed through love. Love for God and love for our fellow man.

Cathode said:

Well you all seem to follow Luther’s novel ideas of sola scriptura and sola fide, but he is a heretic to you on much else, and he would have considered you guys heretics as well.
Luther’s scripture alone religion is very different from your scripture alone religion.

This guy lays out the problem. Short:

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I do not follow Luther's "sola scriptura", as Luther held too much Roman Catholic doctrine.

But I do believe that we are not to lean on our understandings but in the actual words of God (this is where Catholics fail).

Catholics are like any other cult that believes their leaders are vicars of God, teaching what God "really meant" were He competent enough to deliver to us His own words.

There is no difference between Roman Catholics, Reformed Christians and Jehovah Witnesses when it comes to their view of Scripture. God always takes a back seat to their leaders.

JonC said:

I do not follow Luther's "sola scriptura", as Luther held too much Roman Catholic doctrine.

But I do believe that we are not to lean on our understandings but in the actual words of God (this is where Catholics fail).

Catholics are like any other cult that believes their leaders are vicars of God, teaching what God "really meant" were He competent enough to deliver to us His own words.

There is no difference between Roman Catholics, Reformed Christians and Jehovah Witnesses when it comes to their view of Scripture. God always takes a back seat to their leaders.

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You are correct when you say that Lutheran and Catholic beliefs are very close. After centuries of disunity both churches came together to clarify the doctrine of justification, and if you will take a few minutes to read it, you guys will see it was done biblically:

Walter said:

You are correct when you say that Lutheran and Catholic beliefs are very close. After centuries of disunity both churches came together to clarify the doctrine of justification, and goodness, if you will take a few minutes to read it you guys will see it was done biblically:

1997 Joint Declaration on the Doctrine of Justification

JOINT DECLARATION ON THE DOCTRINE OF JUSTIFICATION by the Lutheran World Federation and the Catholic Church Preamble 1. The doctrine of justification was o

www.christianunity.va

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It is similar to alvinism and Arminianism. James Arminus died an orthodox Calvinist (after his death his view was considered unorthodox, after first having been reviewed and considered orthodox but extreme). Arminianism carried with it most of Calvin's doctrine in some form.

Same with the Reformers. Each focused on a point ir a few points of disagreement but kept the Roman Catholic worldview and most of their theology, much of it altered.

The union of Church and State was one glaring example (maybe not in our time, but definitely in their life times). Others include the basic mechanisms of atonement, and views of the Fall.

We do make mistakes when we speak of the "Reformed" as one unified group. Luther disagreed with Calvin on Communion, and on atonement, for example.

But it is not hard to see revised Roman Catholic doctrine within Reformed theology.

Reformed Christians attack Catholic theology never realizing they do mostly the same thing they accuse Catholics of doing. There is no such thing as "solar scriptua" within Reformed theology. The difference is only which group one considers to be arbitrator of truth.