Jesus is the One True Church

Jesus is the One True Church

The Church always existed, because Jesus is the Church, and He always existed. It's a spiritual body, the Body of Christ. Pentecost marked what we call the the birth of the church because that's when believers were first "placed into", or 'baptized into' Christ by the baptism/placing into with/by the Holy Spirit. It's a spiritual immersion by faith into Christ Jesus, the spiritual Body of Christ, the Church. This indwelling Holy Spirit places us "in Christ", the Church.

This is why in Ephesians four, it's said that He ascended, leading captivity captive, and gave gifts to men. Those gifts come from the indwelling Holy Spirit.

Ephesians 1:22-23 And He put all things under His feet, and gave Him to be head over all things to the church, which is His body, the fullness of Him who fills all in all.

Ephesians 4:8-12 Therefore He says: "When He ascended on high, He led captivity captive, And gave gifts to men." (Now this, "He ascended"--what does it mean but that He also first descended into the lower parts of the earth? He who descended is also the One who ascended far above all the heavens, that He might fill all things.) And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers, for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ,

Colossians 1:15-20 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist. And He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things He may have the preeminence. For it pleased the Father that in Him all the fullness should dwell, and by Him to reconcile all things to Himself, by Him, whether things on earth or things in heaven, having made peace through the blood of His cross.

Romans 12:4-5 For as we have many members in one body, but all the members do not have the same function, so we, being many, are one body in Christ, and individually members of one another.

1 Corinthians 12:12-13 For as the body is one and has many members, but all the members of that one body, being many, are one body, so also is Christ. For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body--whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free--and have all been made to drink into one Spirit.


Jesus isn't just the head of the Church, He is the Church. It's not built with stones, it's a spiritual body. .

John 2:19-21 Jesus answered and said to them, "Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up." Then the Jews said, "It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and will You raise it up in three days?" But He was speaking of the temple of His body.

Dave... said:

Jesus is the One True Church

The Church always existed, because Jesus is the Church, and He always existed. It's a spiritual body, the Body of Christ. Pentecost marked what we call the the birth of the church because that's when believers were first "placed into", or 'baptized into' Christ by the baptism/placing into with/by the Holy Spirit. It's a spiritual immersion by faith into Christ Jesus, the spiritual Body of Christ, the Church. This indwelling Holy Spirit places us "in Christ", the Church.

This is why in Ephesians four, it's said that He ascended, leading captivity captive, and gave gifts to men. Those gifts come from the indwelling Holy Spirit.

Ephesians 1:22-23 And He put all things under His feet, and gave Him to be head over all things to the church, which is His body, the fullness of Him who fills all in all.

Ephesians 4:8-12 Therefore He says: "When He ascended on high, He led captivity captive, And gave gifts to men." (Now this, "He ascended"--what does it mean but that He also first descended into the lower parts of the earth? He who descended is also the One who ascended far above all the heavens, that He might fill all things.) And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers, for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ,

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Does scripture teach Jesus is the Church or the Head of the Church His Body, Read Eph 1:22-23 again for the exact answer See also Eph 5:23;Col 1:18

Dave... said:

Jesus is the One True Church

The Church always existed, because Jesus is the Church, and He always existed. It's a spiritual body, the Body of Christ. Pentecost marked what we call the the birth of the church because that's when believers were first "placed into", or 'baptized into' Christ by the baptism/placing into with/by the Holy Spirit. It's a spiritual immersion by faith into Christ Jesus, the spiritual Body of Christ, the Church. This indwelling Holy Spirit places us "in Christ", the Church.

This is why in Ephesians four, it's said that He ascended, leading captivity captive, and gave gifts to men. Those gifts come from the indwelling Holy Spirit.

Ephesians 1:22-23 And He put all things under His feet, and gave Him to be head over all things to the church, which is His body, the fullness of Him who fills all in all.

Ephesians 4:8-12 Therefore He says: "When He ascended on high, He led captivity captive, And gave gifts to men." (Now this, "He ascended"--what does it mean but that He also first descended into the lower parts of the earth? He who descended is also the One who ascended far above all the heavens, that He might fill all things.) And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers, for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ,

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I can see from the Bible that Jesus Christ is the Head of the Church, but not that He is the church. This verse (and there are probably others) shows that Jesus Christ is not the church:

NKJV Eph 5:25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself for her,

He didn't give Himself for Himself.

David Lamb said:

I can see from the Bible that Jesus Christ is the Head of the Church, but not that He is the church. This verse (and there are probably others) shows that Jesus Christ is not the church:

NKJV Eph 5:25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself for her,

He didn't give Himself for Himself.

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Now maybe we can make a strong case for it if we consider that Jesus is called Israel Isa 49:3 and we know Isreal is a type/picture of the Church. Jesus is the last Adam and Adam and Eve were called Adam Gen 5/2

2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.

It seems Paul Identified Christ and Church as Christ here 1 Cor 12:12

12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.

But Im not sure the poster meant it like that.

Dave... said:

This is why in Ephesians four, it's said that He ascended, leading captivity captive, and gave gifts to men. Those gifts come from the indwelling Holy Spirit.

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It is interesting that you bring up Ephesians 4. Also in the beginning of that chapter, we read in Ephesians 4:4;
"There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to one Hope when you were called;"

When it says there that there is "one body", the Bible describes that "body" he is talking about as being a local assembly of the particular members that he calls by name "the body of Christ", I Corinthians 12:27: "Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular."

Paul was saying that those particular members of that church at Corinth were "the body of Christ".

That's it.

"members in particular" = "the body of Christ", according to the Book.

Apart from the fact that "Jesus is the One True Church" can't mean that those particular members in that church in Corinth were "Jesus", but then adding "Jesus is the One True Church" to "ye are the body of Christ and members in particular" would amount to there being TWO DIFFERENT bodies and not "one body", (where it means that there is "one" kind of "body" in the same way it says there in Ephesians 4:5; "One Lord, one faith, one baptism", where we have "one" kind of "baptism".)

So, we would surpass the limited number of "one body", were we to admit that there is such a thing as a local "body" of believers that make up churches as we know them, if we tried to add Jesus is being another church, or body of believers.

I understand what teaching you've had a what might make you think like this regarding what the Bible teaches, but you bring of several different things at once about the Holy Sprit and what He does and any one of those could be taken as another problem in addition to thinking there are "two bodies".

I'm not picking on you. I'm just aiming at anyone or thing where they may be wanting to jumble up these teachings for a more nefarious reason, like knowing they are opposing God.

I'd tell them, "do the math".

@Alan Dale Gross @Brightfame52 @David Lamb

Who are we placed into when we receive the indwelling Holy Spirit. We're placed "In Christ" right?

Romans 12:5 so we, being many, are one body in Christ, and individually members of one another.

1 Corinthians 12:27 Now you are the body of Christ, and members individually.

Colossians 1:24 I now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up in my flesh what is lacking in the afflictions of Christ, for the sake of His body, which is the church,

1 Corinthians 12:13, Romans 8:9

BTW, physical Israel is a type of spiritual Israel, the Church. Physical Israel was saved from physical death by the Lambs blood on the door. Spiritual Israel, the Church, is saved by the anti type, Jesus' blood on the cross. (John 3:6). Jesus didn't replace, He fulfilled.

Dave... said:

@Alan Dale Gross @Brightfame52 @David Lamb

Who are we placed into when we receive the indwelling Holy Spirit. We're placed "In Christ" right?

Romans 12:5 so we, being many, are one body in Christ, and individually members of one another.

1 Corinthians 12:27 Now you are the body of Christ, and members individually.

Colossians 1:24 I now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up in my flesh what is lacking in the afflictions of Christ, for the sake of His body, which is the church,

1 Corinthians 12:13, Romans 8:9

BTW, physical Israel is a type of spiritual Israel, the Church. Physical Israel was saved from physical death by the Lambs blood on the door. Spiritual Israel, the Church, is saved by the anti type, Jesus' blood on the cross. (John 3:6). Jesus didn't replace, He fulfilled.

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But that doesn't mean that Christ is the church. Certainly we do find in Scripture that when somebody persecutes the church, they are persecuting Christ:

NKJV Act 9:4 Then he fell to the ground, and heard a voice saying to him, "Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me?"

However, that does not mean that the church is Christ. Christ said He would build His church. He wasn't saying that He would construct Himself. The church is to be subject to Christ:

NKJV Eph 5:24 Therefore, just as the church is subject to Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in everything.

Christ is not subject to Himself.

The next verses in Ephesians 5 say:

Eph 5:26 that He might sanctify and cleanse her with the washing of water by the word,
Eph 5:27 that He might present her to Himself a glorious church, not having spot or wrinkle or any such thing, but that she should be holy and without blemish.

Does Christ sanctify and cleanse Himself? Does He present Himself to Himself? Of course not!

David Lamb said:

But that doesn't mean that Christ is the church. Certainly we do find in Scripture that when somebody persecutes the church, they are persecuting Christ:

NKJV Act 9:4 Then he fell to the ground, and heard a voice saying to him, "Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me?"

However, that does not mean that the church is Christ. Christ said He would build His church. He wasn't saying that He would construct Himself. The church is to be subject to Christ:

NKJV Eph 5:24 Therefore, just as the church is subject to Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in everything.

Christ is not subject to Himself.

The next verses in Ephesians 5 say:

Eph 5:26 that He might sanctify and cleanse her with the washing of water by the word,
Eph 5:27 that He might present her to Himself a glorious church, not having spot or wrinkle or any such thing, but that she should be holy and without blemish.

Does Christ sanctify and cleanse Himself? Does He present Himself to Himself? Of course not!

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Hey David.

But why does the Bible use the specific language that we're placed into Him? With emphasis on "in Him". It's the same as being placed into the body. It's a spiritual body. That would be why Jesus said destroy this Temple, and I will raise it again in three days. His resurrected body is the Temple, the Spiritual Body that we're placed into, the Church. God no longer lives in a temple made of stone. He replaced the temple made with hands with Himself. That's why Jesus said that He will be in us, and we in Him when the Spirit is given (John 14:20). That's what makes us one with Him and the Father. The baptism with the Holy Spirit is the placing into Christ with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit (1 John 4:13,15, 1 Corinthians 12:13). After all, Isn't Jesus spiritual Israel? Isn't that what election is? Jesus is elect, and we become elect with Him when we're placed into Him.

We're sanctified in Christ, so yes , in that sense, Jesus does sanctify those who are in Him. Having begun in the Spirit, are we being perfected by the flesh? This is why the branches that bear no good fruit are cut off, because they are not part of the vine, Him. That would be Jesus sanctifying himself. In fact, one might argue that that is exactly what Jesus did on the cross, sanctify Himself on our behalf by dying for us (John 17:19)? so, the idea is not foreign to Scripture.

I get what you're saying, and there does seem to be a distinction, even within Him, with regards to authority and the source of all these things, the Vine. But I keep coming back to "in Him" that is constantly used in Scripture, it's hard to escape. That's where it all happens. Spiritual Israel.

Dave

Dave... said:

Hey David.

But why does the Bible use the specific language that we're placed into Him? With emphasis on "in Him". It's the same as being placed into the body. It's a spiritual body. That would be why Jesus said destroy this Temple, and I will raise it again in three days. His resurrected body is the Temple, the Spiritual Body that we're placed into, the Church. God no longer lives in a temple made of stone. He replaced the temple made with hands with Himself. That's why Jesus said that He will be in us, and we in Him when the Spirit is given (John 14:20). That's what makes us one with Him and the Father. The baptism with the Holy Spirit is the placing into Christ with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit (1 John 4:13,15, 1 Corinthians 12:13). After all, Isn't Jesus spiritual Israel? Isn't that what election is? Jesus is elect, and we become elect with Him when we're placed into Him.

We're sanctified in Christ, so yes , in that sense, Jesus does sanctify those who are in Him. Having begun in the Spirit, are we being perfected by the flesh? This is why the branches that bear no good fruit are cut off, because they are not part of the vine, Him. That would be Jesus sanctifying himself. In fact, one might argue that that is exactly what Jesus did on the cross, sanctify Himself on our behalf by dying for us (John 17:19)? so, the idea is not foreign to Scripture.

I get what you're saying, and there does seem to be a distinction, even within Him, with regards to authority and the source of all these things, the Vine. But I keep coming back to "in Him" that is constantly used in Scripture, it's hard to escape. That's where it all happens. Spiritual Israel.

Dave

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Certainly Christians are in Christ. That doesn't mean that they are Christ, or that Christ is His church. Looking at your last paragraph, it seems we are agreeing about that.

David Lamb said:

Certainly Christians are in Christ. That doesn't mean that they are Christ, or that Christ is His church. Looking at your last paragraph, it seems we are agreeing about that.

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What do you suppose being in Christ means?

Being placed into Christ saves us. What distinction would you use that would separate Jesus from the Church other than authority? Within Jesus, there is distinction, but in Him, we're are one with Him, as He is one with the Father. He said as much. Just as a husband and wife become one flesh, but are distinct from each other. Like the Trinity, I suppose (John 10:30). Jesus prayed this...the words are interesting....He said this just after claiming that He will sanctify Himself for their (ours also) sakes (the cross)....

John 17:20-23 20 "I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will believe in Me through their word; that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me. And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one: I in them, and You in Me; that they may be made perfect in one, and that the world may know that You have sent Me, and have loved them as You have loved Me.

That prayer is answered when we're placed into Christ, with the placing into with/by the Holy Spirit. We all are placed into one body, and made to drink from one Spirit.

Why call the Church the body of Christ? Why not the assembly of Christ? The language seems to be deliberate. A painting of a picture. I do know one thing, a lot of people are not going to like this as they champion themselves and their assembly/denomination as the one true church. I don't think it works that way. They will fight it tooth and nail against this idea for all the wrong reasons. But, by my estimation, understanding these things helps to paint a clearer picture to allow Biblical context to be more clear.

Dave... said:

@Alan Dale Gross @Brightfame52 @David Lamb

Who are we placed into when we receive the indwelling Holy Spirit. We're placed "In Christ" right?

Romans 12:5 so we, being many, are one body in Christ, and individually members of one another.

1 Corinthians 12:27 Now you are the body of Christ, and members individually.

Colossians 1:24 I now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up in my flesh what is lacking in the afflictions of Christ, for the sake of His body, which is the church,

1 Corinthians 12:13, Romans 8:9

BTW, physical Israel is a type of spiritual Israel, the Church. Physical Israel was saved from physical death by the Lambs blood on the door. Spiritual Israel, the Church, is saved by the anti type, Jesus' blood on the cross. (John 3:6). Jesus didn't replace, He fulfilled.

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The body /church is made up of many members but Christ is the head.

Eph_5:23 For the husband is the head of the wife, as Christ also is the head of the church, He Himself being the Savior of the body. NASB

Col_1:18 He is also head of the body, the church; and He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that He Himself will come to have first place in everything. NASB

This is the best I could do for you, to begin starting to unravel the ideas I understand you were taught and in fact could easily be 'supported' by thousands of recent references from men (since the 1500s), about things are impssible to find in the Bible, by a NEW THREAD:

Disobedience to Divine Commands is not a Work of the Holy Spirit.

One Baptism -- In Water by Rosco Brong, Former Dean Lexington Baptist College (KY) Disobedience to Divine Commands is not a Work of the Holy Spirit. "There is . . . one baptism." (Ephesians 4:4, 5.) "Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into (with reference to) Jesus...

www.baptistboard.com

or two,

Disobedience to Divine Commands is not a Work of the Holy Spirit.

One Baptism -- In Water by Rosco Brong, Former Dean Lexington Baptist College (KY) Disobedience to Divine Commands is not a Work of the Holy Spirit. "There is . . . one baptism." (Ephesians 4:4, 5.) "Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into (with reference to) Jesus...

www.baptistboard.com

Dave... said:

Who are we placed into when we receive the indwelling Holy Spirit.

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Dave... said:

We're placed "In Christ" right?

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Dave... said:

But why does the Bible use the specific language that we're placed into Him?

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There is no scripture which mentions "the specific language that we're placed into Him".

Dave... said:

With emphasis on "in Him".

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Dave... said:

It's the same as being placed into the body.

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The only "unit" or "body" that anyone is "placed into" is into membership in one of The Lord's churches, by the "one baptism", water baptism,( the "one" literal "baptism"), where they would then periodically assemble as a "unit", or "body" of specific, individual believers, in particular.

Universal, Global, randomly scattered, unorganized disbursements of anything are never called "a unit", or a "body".

Dave... said:

It's a spiritual body.

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Universal, Global, randomly scattered, unorganized disbursements of anything are never called "a unit", or a "body".

There is no such thing as a "spiritual" "body", or "spiritual" "church", etc.

That is an invisible nothing that has, nor will never exist, but is only invented in the minds of men, which divides against and is at war against the "churches" of Jesus Christ which Serve as His local "bodies" of believers where all of the teachings and Commands are to be applied, FOR THE WORSHIP OF GOD.

Jesus is very Displeased with all of that nonsense taking away from the Divine importance of the churches like Jesus Built, where they are to Conduct the Business of God on Earth, not to just 'pretend' or 'think' that some complete lack of substance imaginary bright idea of man with no purpose other than to distract from Jesus' True churches, has anything to do with God or the Bible.

Dave... said:

That would be why Jesus said destroy this Temple, and I will raise it again in three days. His resurrected body is the Temple, the Spiritual Body that we're placed into, the Church.

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No, no, no. Nothing is related together like this jumbled mess.

The is no "the Church", unless you'd be talking about the collection of all the existing church bodies of the Lord Jesus, the Kind He Built in His Earthly Ministry and like all those referred to in the New Testament.

Then, since there are multitudes of souls that are saved but haven't joined in membership to one of the Lord's local church bodies, if you wanted to refer to "all of the saved alive on Earth at one time" that would be God's "Kingdom".

Dave... said:

That's why Jesus said that He will be in us, and we in Him when the Spirit is given (John 14:20).

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That mention of "the Spirit being given" refers to "Another Comforter" Who Jesus had Promised to Send. The Spirit there is the "Gifts of the Holy Spirit", which to the Disciples were Instantaneous Miraculous Supernatural Gifts, at that time.

These Disciples and all saved souls since the Time of Adam had already been Indwelt by the Holy Spirit in their New Birth.

Dave... said:

That's what makes us one with Him and the Father.

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Try; the Blood of Jesus. Jesus is the Savior. Not the Holy Spirit Operating in some Way, instead of Jesus saving souls.

Dave... said:

The baptism with the Holy Spirit is the placing into Christ with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit (1 John 4:13,15, 1 Corinthians 12:13).

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The Holy Spirit has never baptized anything, of His Own Accord.

The Same Holy Spirit would never Perform the Position of being the Administer, Administering the Holy Spirit, while also Being the Agent, the Holy Spirit again, in which something is presumably baptized, by the Holy Spirit Acting as Baptizer and then also Being the Substance Used in the Baptizing, Itself.

Dave... said:

After all, Isn't Jesus spiritual Israel?

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Jesus is Spoken of as Being "Israel", figuratively.

"The Spiritual Israel" are all the Elect children of God to ever be saved.

Dave... said:

Isn't that what election is?

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No. God Unveils some about How He Elected and What Election is;
Romans 9:11; "(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil,
that the Purpose of God According to Election might Stand, not of works, but of Him that Calleth

12; "It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.

13; "As it is written, Jacob have I Loved, but Esau have I Hated.

14; "What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.

15; "For He saith to Moses, I Will have Mercy on whom I Will have Mercy,
and I Will have Compassion on whom I Will have Compassion.

16; "So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth Mercy."

Can we agree that the "it" there in verse 16 should simply be understood as saying;
"then Election is not of him that willeth, nor is Election of him that runneth, but Election is of God that sheweth Mercy"?

Dave... said:

Jesus is elect, and we become elect with Him when we're placed into Him.

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How about asking why anyone could ever need to be "elected", or "chosen", AFTER we have already been saved?

Then, he "elects" us? That doesn't sound like that would have any purpose whatsoever.

To "Chose" that which was "saved"?

That isn't something that makes any sense for an All-Knowing God to be accused of.

Ands. so that has never been the case.

Dave... said:

What do you suppose being in Christ means?

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I contrast it as the apostle Paul does, to being in Adam:

1Co 15:21 For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead.
1Co 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive.

Just as Adam wasn't all the people who are described as being "in Adam ," so Jesus Christ is not the church, those who are "in Christ."

Dave... said:

Being placed into Christ saves us.

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Agreed.

Dave... said:

What distinction would you use that would separate Jesus from the Church other than authority? Within Jesus, there is distinction, but in Him, we're are one with Him, as He is one with the Father. He said as much. Just as a husband and wife become one flesh, but are distinct from each other. Like the Trinity, I suppose (John 10:30). Jesus prayed this...the words are interesting....He said this just after claiming that He will sanctify Himself for their (ours also) sakes (the cross)....

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Yes, Christians have a unity with their Saviour, but that doesn't mean that Christ is the church.

Dave... said:

John 17:20-23 20 "I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will believe in Me through their word; that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me. And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one: I in them, and You in Me; that they may be made perfect in one, and that the world may know that You have sent Me, and have loved them as You have loved Me.

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Yes, but He prays that they, Christians, may be one, not that He may be Christians collectively, the church.

Dave... said:

That prayer is answered when we're placed into Christ, with the placing into with/by the Holy Spirit. We all are placed into one body, and made to drink from one Spirit.

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Agreed.

Dave... said:

Why call the Church the body of Christ? Why not the assembly of Christ? The language seems to be deliberate. A painting of a picture. I do know one thing, a lot of people are not going to like this as they champion themselves and their assembly/denomination as the one true church. I don't think it works that way. They will fight it tooth and nail against this idea for all the wrong reasons. But, by my estimation, understanding these things helps to paint a clearer picture to allow Biblical context to be more clear.

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Yes, I agree that the church is the body of Christ. But I don't agree that Christ is the one true church. The very word the Bible uses for "church" means "called out ones." Christians are those who have been called out of the kingdom of darkness. What has Christ been called out from?