Jesus is the One True Church

Dave... said:

Hey Rock

Would Jesus be the Church if no one was yet placed into Him? Using the Temple, He called Himself a spiritual Temple. Church would is the same spiritual house, according to what the types were pointing to, right?

Click to expand...

The only verse I can think of is the one where Jesus referred to His body as the temple:

NKJV Jhn 2:19 Jesus answered and said to them, "Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up."
Jhn 2:20 Then the Jews said, "It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and will You raise it up in three days?"
Jhn 2:21 But He was speaking of the temple of His body.

Where does He describe Himself as a spiritual temple?

Silverhair said:

The body /church is made up of many members but Christ is the head.

Eph_5:23 For the husband is the head of the wife, as Christ also is the head of the church, He Himself being the Savior of the body. NASB

Col_1:18 He is also head of the body, the church; and He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that He Himself will come to have first place in everything. NASB

Click to expand...

Agreed, but look at 1 Corinthians 12:12-13. We're all placed into one body (the body of Christ). The body is not a place where Jesus is, that we can spiritually connect with Him, it's actually Him. We're all placed into the body by one Spirit [indwelling]. We become spiritually connected as believers with each other because we're all "in Christ". He is the one common denominator. In other words, we're not placed into the church to be saved (believers included), we're placed into Jesus alone, who is the Church, to be saved, which also has other believers included. I don't see the contention between the two ideas.

1 Corinthians 12:12-13 For as the body is one and has many members, but all the members of that one body, being many, are one body, so also is Christ. For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body--whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free--and have all been made to drink into one Spirit.

On the flip side of that, the church is called a "her" and a "she" in Ephesians 5:25-27, which plays into the bride of Christ, and the two becoming one flesh picturing that spiritual union. I believe that "she" is in reference to the Church separate from Jesus, but still part of Him. Which could complicate things.

David Lamb said:

The only verse I can think of is the one where Jesus referred to His body as the temple:

NKJV Jhn 2:19 Jesus answered and said to them, "Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up."
Jhn 2:20 Then the Jews said, "It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and will You raise it up in three days?"
Jhn 2:21 But He was speaking of the temple of His body.

Where does He describe Himself as a spiritual temple?

Click to expand...

In the OT, God's literal presence dwelt inside the physical Temple in Jerusalem. By calling His body the Temple, Jesus is declaring that He is now the meeting place between man and God. Because Christ was raised, the spiritual application extends to us believers. We're now the Temples of the Holy Spirit. Spiritually, He is in us (Holy Spirit/Spirit of Christ), and we're in Him (The body). The NT Temple, Jesus, apply that idea to the Church.

Dave... said:

Agreed, but look at 1 Corinthians 12:12-13. We're all placed into one body (the body of Christ). The body is not a place where Jesus is, that we can spiritually connect with Him, it's actually Him. We're all placed into the body by one Spirit [indwelling]. We become spiritually connected as believers with each other because we're all "in Christ". He is the one common denominator. In other words, we're not placed into the church to be saved (believers included), we're placed into Jesus alone, who is the Church, to be saved, which also has other believers included. I don't see the contention between the two ideas.

1 Corinthians 12:12-13 For as the body is one and has many members, but all the members of that one body, being many, are one body, so also is Christ. For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body--whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free--and have all been made to drink into one Spirit.

On the flip side of that, the church is called a "her" and a "she" in Ephesians 5:25-27, which plays into the bride of Christ, and the two becoming one flesh picturing that spiritual union. I believe that "she" is in reference to the Church separate from Jesus, but still part of Him. Which could complicate things.

Click to expand...

We are baptized into Christ spiritually. The body is a spiritual body of which Christ is the head/the leader. The believers are the body. So we have a body of believers and the head Christ forming one body. We are not baptized into His head.

When a man and a woman get married do they become one physical being? No, they become one unit, a married couple.
We are told the husband is the head of the wife {still separate individuals} as Christ is the head of the church {the leader/the authority} His body, {those believing ones} of which He is the Savior. {Does Christ have to save Himself} Eph 5:23

Actually your use of Eph 5:25-27 clears things up quite nicely.
Look at what those verses tell us

1] Christ loved the church and gave Himself up for her {the church is not Christ}
2] sanctify her, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word, {did Christ need either}
3] to present her to Himself {how does He present Himself to Himself}

What do we see in Rom_8:10 But if Christ is in you, your body is dead because of sin,,... How does Christ put Himself into His own body?

You are struggling with something that you do not need to struggle with.

The church did not always exist as you are trying to prove. The church consists of those that have freely trusted in the risen Christ.

Silverhair said:

We are baptized into Christ spiritually. The body is a spiritual body of which Christ is the head/the leader. The believers are the body. So we have a body of believers and the head Christ forming one body. We are not baptized into His head.

Click to expand...

The Bible says that Jesus is the body. When we're baptized in Christ, we're baptized into Him, and as result, becoming one with Him, and as a result of that, also becoming one with everyone else who is baptized into Him.

We're not baptized into other believers. We become one with them also by being one with Jesus first. I see Him as the entire Body. We are not adding limbs to Him, to His head, right? lol

It's not just us in Him. He is in us. That's how we're in Him. I do not have other believers in me, nor am I in them. It's only through Jesus that we have a connection.

Silverhair said:

When a man and a woman get married do they become one physical being? No, they become one unit, a married couple.
We are told the husband is the head of the wife {still separate individuals} as Christ is the head of the church {the leader/the authority} His body, {those believing ones} of which He is the Savior. {Does Christ have to save Himself} Eph 5:23

Click to expand...

1 Corinthians 6:14-17 Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ? Shall I then take the members of Christ and make them members of a harlot? Certainly not! Or do you not know that he who is joined to a harlot is one body with her? For "the two," He says, "shall become one flesh." But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him.

Silverhair said:

Actually your use of Eph 5:25-27 clears things up quite nicely.
Look at what those verses tell us

1] Christ loved the church and gave Himself up for her {the church is not Christ}
2] sanctify her, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word, {did Christ need either}
3] to present her to Himself {how does He present Himself to Himself}

Click to expand...

We're one body "in Christ" (Romans 12:5). Not attached, but in. The body is Jesus, we become the body in Him.

Silverhair said:

What do we see in Rom_8:10 But if Christ is in you, your body is dead because of sin,,... How does Christ put Himself into His own body?

Click to expand...

1 Corinthians 12:12-13 For as the body is one and has many members, but all the members of that one body, being many, are one body, so also is Christ. For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body--whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free--and have all been made to drink into one Spirit.

Silverhair said:

You are struggling with something that you do not need to struggle with.

Click to expand...

You keep trying to paint this desperate picture of me. I'm not struggling. But statements like that are usually made by people who are struggling. just a thought.

Silverhair said:

The church did not always exist as you are trying to prove. The church consists of those that have freely trusted in the risen Christ.

Click to expand...

By your definition, the church is the people who believe, and Jesus becomes the church when He is joined to us?

Dave... said:

The Bible says that Jesus is the body. When we're baptized in Christ, we're baptized into Him, and as result, becoming one with Him, and as a result of that, also becoming one with everyone else who is baptized into Him.

We're not baptized into other believers. We become one with them also by being one with Jesus first. I see Him as the entire Body. We are not adding limbs to Him, to His head, right? lol

It's not just us in Him. He is in us. That's how we're in Him. I do not have other believers in me, nor am I in them. It's only through Jesus that we have a connection.



1 Corinthians 6:14-17 Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ? Shall I then take the members of Christ and make them members of a harlot? Certainly not! Or do you not know that he who is joined to a harlot is one body with her? For "the two," He says, "shall become one flesh." But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him.



We're one body "in Christ" (Romans 12:5). Not attached, but in. The body is Jesus, we become the body in Him.




1 Corinthians 12:12-13 For as the body is one and has many members, but all the members of that one body, being many, are one body, so also is Christ. For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body--whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free--and have all been made to drink into one Spirit.



You keep trying to paint this desperate picture of me. I'm not struggling. But statements like that are usually made by people who are struggling. just a thought.



By your definition, the church is the people who believe, and Jesus becomes the church when He is joined to us?

Click to expand...

You will continue too believe what you want to believe no matter what the bible says.

Nice try at deflection but I do not have the silly idea that Christ was always the church, I leave that to you.

I will say, you do have a strange way of reading/understanding the word of God.

Dave... said:

The Bible says that Jesus is the body

Click to expand...

Where does the Bible say that Jesus is the body? There are 14 verses that include the two words "Jesus" and "body" in the NKJV, and not one of them says that He is the body, in the sense of Him being the church:

Mat_14:12 Then his disciples came and took away the body and buried it, and went and told Jesus.
Mat_26:26 And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, blessed and broke it, and gave it to the disciples and said, "Take, eat; this is My body."
Mat_27:58 This man went to Pilate and asked for the body of Jesus. Then Pilate commanded the body to be given to him.
Mrk_14:22 And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, blessed and broke it, and gave it to them and said, "Take, eat; this is My body."
Mrk_15:43 Joseph of Arimathea, a prominent council member, who was himself waiting for the kingdom of God, coming and taking courage, went in to Pilate and asked for the body of Jesus.
Luk_23:52 This man went to Pilate and asked for the body of Jesus.
Luk_24:3 Then they went in and did not find the body of the Lord Jesus.
Jhn_19:38 After this, Joseph of Arimathea, being a disciple of Jesus, but secretly, for fear of the Jews, asked Pilate that he might take away the body of Jesus; and Pilate gave him permission. So he came and took the body of Jesus.
Jhn_19:40 Then they took the body of Jesus, and bound it in strips of linen with the spices, as the custom of the Jews is to bury.
Jhn_20:12 And she saw two angels in white sitting, one at the head and the other at the feet, where the body of Jesus had lain.
2Co_4:10 always carrying about in the body the dying of the Lord Jesus, that the life of Jesus also may be manifested in our body.
Gal_6:17 From now on let no one trouble me, for I bear in my body the marks of the Lord Jesus.
1Th_5:23 Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you completely; and may your whole spirit, soul, and body be preserved blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Heb_10:10 By that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

David Lamb said:

Where does the Bible say that Jesus is the body? There are 14 verses that include the two words "Jesus" and "body" in the NKJV, and not one of them says that He is the body, in the sense of Him being the church:

Mat_14:12 Then his disciples came and took away the body and buried it, and went and told Jesus.
Mat_26:26 And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, blessed and broke it, and gave it to the disciples and said, "Take, eat; this is My body."
Mat_27:58 This man went to Pilate and asked for the body of Jesus. Then Pilate commanded the body to be given to him.
Mrk_14:22 And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, blessed and broke it, and gave it to them and said, "Take, eat; this is My body."
Mrk_15:43 Joseph of Arimathea, a prominent council member, who was himself waiting for the kingdom of God, coming and taking courage, went in to Pilate and asked for the body of Jesus.
Luk_23:52 This man went to Pilate and asked for the body of Jesus.
Luk_24:3 Then they went in and did not find the body of the Lord Jesus.
Jhn_19:38 After this, Joseph of Arimathea, being a disciple of Jesus, but secretly, for fear of the Jews, asked Pilate that he might take away the body of Jesus; and Pilate gave him permission. So he came and took the body of Jesus.
Jhn_19:40 Then they took the body of Jesus, and bound it in strips of linen with the spices, as the custom of the Jews is to bury.
Jhn_20:12 And she saw two angels in white sitting, one at the head and the other at the feet, where the body of Jesus had lain.
2Co_4:10 always carrying about in the body the dying of the Lord Jesus, that the life of Jesus also may be manifested in our body.
Gal_6:17 From now on let no one trouble me, for I bear in my body the marks of the Lord Jesus.
1Th_5:23 Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you completely; and may your whole spirit, soul, and body be preserved blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Heb_10:10 By that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

Click to expand...

@David Lamb now you know you are just going to confuse him with facts.

Dave... said:

Until you take seriously the context of passages that use the word "baptism" when you interpret it, then you're theology will always be in error. To apply water to the meaning of the word "baptism" every time you see it in scripture is beyond sloppy and bordering on idolatry. I have hope for better things for you, though.

Click to expand...

For one thing, The Holy Spirit has never 'baptized' anything or anyone. Jesus is the one Who baptized in the Holy Sprit, as the Administrator of "baptizing" using the Agent of "the Holy Spirit".

And that is said by John the Baptist, in Matthew 3:11, "I indeed baptize you with water unto Repentance:
but He that Cometh after me is Mightier than I, Whose shoes I am not worthy to bear:

He shall Baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:"

Those who had Repented and had Faith in Jesus Christ who were listening the John the Baptist Preach had already been Indwelt with the Holy Spirit, in their New Birth.

The "baptism in the Holy Spirit" that Jesus was to Perform would be on those who He Endued with the Special Supernatural Miraculous Gifts of Healing, etc., in a around the Day of Pentecost. Also, those who were saved and who were listening to JOHN WOULD BE PART OF THE CHURCH OF JERUSALAM THAT JESUS WAS GOING TO ANOINT BY BAPTIZING HER IN THE HOLY SPIRIT.

To use your wording, "Until you take seriously the context of passages that use the word "baptism" when you interpret it, then you're theology will always be in error."

There is "one baptism" that is used literally and then four or so ways the word "baptism" is used figuratively.

The "one baptism" is the Water Baptism Given by the Lord to His churches as a Devine Ordinance.

New Thread: Baptism: A Figure Like Figure.

Silverhair said:

You will continue too believe what you want to believe no matter what the bible says.

Nice try at deflection but I do not have the silly idea that Christ was always the church, I leave that to you.

I will say, you do have a strange way of reading/understanding the word of God.

Click to expand...

What was the first believer placed into Christ placed into? Who are you placed into to be saved? Jesus, right? Not a space with Jesus in there, waiting for someone to show up so we can call it the body, which is the church, but Jesus Himself. That's all I'm saying. If Jesus is the body of Christ (makes sense, right?), then believers get to partake of Him, in Him, and be a part of that body. Not creating the body, but being part of Him. That body is also called the church. Believers can be part of both, but believers added do not create Him. He's already there.

Dave... said:

What was the first believer placed into Christ placed into? Who are you placed into to be saved? Jesus, right? Not a space with Jesus in there, waiting for someone to show up so we can call it the body, which is the church, but Jesus Himself. That's all I'm saying. If Jesus is the body of Christ (makes sense, right?), then believers get to partake of Him, in Him, and be a part of that body. Not creating the body, but being part of Him. That body is also called the church. Believers can be part of both, but believers added do not create Him. He's already there.

Click to expand...

You continue to miss the truth. Christ is not the church but He is the head of the church.

But my words will not bring this truth to you, only the Holy Spirit can show you the error in your thinking and I pray that He will do so.

Dave... said:

Jesus is the Church

Click to expand...

Christ Is Not the Church

Scripture never teaches that Christ is the Church. Scripture teaches that Christ is the head of the Church, and the Church is His body.

“And gave him to be head over all things to the church, which is his body.” Ephesians 1:22 to 23

The head is not the body.
The head directs the body.
Christ is the head.
The Church is His body.

Christ Is the Bridegroom, Not the Bride. Scripture is explicit that Christ is the bridegroom and the Church is His bride.

“He that hath the bride is the bridegroom.” John 3:29

“I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.” 2 Corinthians 11:2

“The marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.” Revelation 19:7

Christ is the Lamb. The Church is His wife.

If Christ is the Church, then Christ marries Himself. Scripture never teaches such a thing.

“That he might present it to himself a glorious church.” Ephesians 5:27

Christ presents the Church to Himself. He does not present Himself to Himself.

Christ Is the Cornerstone, Not the Building.

“Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone. In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord.” Ephesians 2:20 to 22

Christ is the cornerstone. The Church is the building.

Christ Is the Shepherd, Not the Flock.

“I am the good shepherd.” John 10:11

The Church is the flock. Christ is not the flock.

Christ Is the Vine, Not the Branches

“I am the vine, ye are the branches.” John 15:5

Christ is not the branches. The branches are not the vine.

Summary

Christ is:

the head
the bridegroom
the cornerstone
the shepherd
the vine

The Church is:

the body
the bride
the building
the flock
the branches

These categories are never reversed in Scripture.

Christ is not the Church. Christ has a Church.

Christ is not the bride. Christ has a bride.

Dave... said:

What was the first believer placed into Christ placed into? Who are you placed into to be saved? Jesus, right? Not a space with Jesus in there, waiting for someone to show up so we can call it the body, which is the church, but Jesus Himself. That's all I'm saying. If Jesus is the body of Christ (makes sense, right?), then believers get to partake of Him, in Him, and be a part of that body. Not creating the body, but being part of Him. That body is also called the church. Believers can be part of both, but believers added do not create Him. He's already there.

Click to expand...

True, sinners who are saved are placed into Christ, but they don't become Christ, either individually or collectively as the church. The church consists of those who are in Christ. The church is not Christ, and Christ is not the church.