Confusion over "Called?"

Van · Saturday at 1:35 PM

Martin Marprelate said:
More denial of the obvious - I did not call you an obnoxious half-wit, and never have. I called your 'interpretive' translation of kaleo "fanciful,' which it is.

All these are perfectly well translated by "call." There is a 'general call' which is given and there is a particular or 'iresistible' call.
In Mark 1:15, the Lord Jesus calls all and sundry to 'repent and believe the Gospel.' Whom is He speaking to? We are not told, but presumably everyone within earshot. Did they all obey? Again, we are not told, but we presume not. They were not 'set apart in Christ - they were called into the kingdom. Again, in Matthew 11:28, the Lord Jesus issues a call: "Come to Me all you who labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest." Did everyone who was weary and heavy laden come? No. I expect many of them were found later shouting, "Crucify Him! We have no king but Caesar!" Were they all set apart in Christ? I think not.
But in Luke 5:27-28, the Lord Jesus comes across Levi (or Matthew) the tax collector, and says to him, "Follow Me." We are told that Levi at once, 'left all, rose up and followed Jesus.' 'Left all' presumably meant all the money, his records, everything. That was an irresistible call, and of course Levi obeyed it; but it was still a call.

When Levi/Matthew rose up and followed Jesus, he was obeying the call, and no doubt was set apart in Christ. The call came first; the following and the setting apart came when he obeyed the call.

Talk about a walk-back!

I said name calling, like calling a biblically based translation fanciful.

My examples are not "perfectly well translated by call." The use of a word that could mean, invite or proclaim or name, when the meaning is "set apart" is a mis-translation and a poor translation.

Now let us turn to your non-responsive response.

1) One, you introduce the Calvinist fiction of the "general call" and the "irresistible call." Totally off topic, we are discussing how to best translate Kaleo, G2564. Your position is use "called" for all three meanings, whereas my position is use a separate English word for each meaning as indicated by the context.

2) Two, you introduce Mark 1:15,

and saying, “The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God has come near; repent and believe in the gospel.”

You ask if everyone was compelled to obey. No, it was a invitation. Next you suggest my view requires everyone invited to be set apart. Sheer nonsense. Many are invited but few are chosen.

3) Next, you introduce Matthew 11:28,

Come to Me, all who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest.

Once again, our word is not in the text, yet you make the absurd argument that my view requires every invitation to result in being set apart. Utter nonsense.

4) Finally, you introduce Luke 5:27,

After that He went out and looked at a tax collector named Levi sitting in the tax office, and He said to him, “Follow Me.

And once again you address a word not in the text. Unless you are referring to "said" which would be better translated as proclaimed. Then, perhaps in jest, you equate Jesus choosing Matthew to be an Apostle, with setting an individual apart in Christ BEFORE Christ sacrificed His life on the cross. Unbelievable Nonsense.

One last point of order, we are individually chosen for salvation through faith in the truth and being set apart in Christ. We were not chosen then given faith, then set apart in Christ, that is just more Calvinist nonsense.

Van · 2026-10-04T11:03:46-0500

Points of comparison between Colossians 1:13 and 1 Peter 2:9.

For He rescued us from the domain of darkness, and transferred us to the kingdom of His beloved Son, NASB Colossians 1:13

But you are A CHOSEN PEOPLE, A royal PRIESTHOOD, A HOLY NATION, A PEOPLE FOR GOD’S OWN POSSESSION, so that you may proclaim the excellencies of Him who has called you out of darkness into His marvelous light; NASB 1 Peter 2:9

The first comparison to consider are the phrases "from the domain of darkness and transferred us to the kingdom of His beloved Son" and "called you out of darkness into His marvelous light."

Here we see the action by God to take an individual from the jurisdiction of darkness and relocate the person spiritually into Christ's jurisdiction or kingdom. The individual goes from not being "in Christ" to being "in Christ."

Second, both phrases contain the prepositions "ek" (out of or out from) and "eis" (into). Thus the meaning of "called" in 1 Peter 2:9 is not to invite, but to transfer.

With this meaning (the Greek word translated called is sometimes used to refer to being transferred or set apart in Christ, perhaps we should consider which other verses where the Greek word is translated called, but would better be translated as transferred or set apart?

Van · 2026-10-04T11:21:14-0500

Another point of comparison is to note that "called)" (G2564) is used to indicate being set apart in Christ by Paul (example Romans 9:24) and Peter (example 1 Peter 2:9). Also note that the author of Hebrews uses "called" to indicate being set apart into Abraham's bosom (example Hebrews 9:15).

Let's look at Hebrews 9:15 NASB:

For this reason He is the mediator of a new covenant, so that, since a death has taken place for the redemption of the violations that were committed under the first covenant, those who have been called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.

Here we see "those who have been called" not referring to all those invited, but to those who had waited in Abraham's bosom until after Christ died, to receive the promise of everlasting life. That is indicated by the use of first covenant, rather than both covenants. Note the OT Saints were NOT initially set apart into Christ, but were set apart into Abraham's bosom where they waited to be made perfect by means of the future sacrifice of Christ.

Van · 2026-10-04T11:40:54-0500

If we look at Romans 8:30, we see Paul using the meaning of set apart, but mistranslated as called. Only those set apart in Christ are justified!

If we look at 1 Corinthians 1:9 again we find the preposition "eis" (into) thus the context indicates the meaning is transferred or set apart. We were transferred into fellowship with Christ!

Van · 2026-10-04T17:30:49-0500

I am unable to edit my terrible opening post, but I should because as dear Martin pointed out, it is shot through with errors.

If the moderator or administrator monitoring this thread is so inclined, I would like the opening post to be replaced with the following post

The Greek word transliterated as "kaleo" (G2564) appears in the New Testament about 148 times, and is used in three very different ways to mean three vary different things.

First, the word is used to indicate someone is optionally invited to come or go somewhere or participate in some activity, such as being forgiven of your sins. When used in this manner, the word should be translated as "invited" rather than "called."

Second, the word is used to indicate something was proclaimed, designated or named as in Jesus is proclaimed the Messiah, the Christ, the Anointed One. When the reference is to a person's name, named should be used. But when the reference is to a person's title, proclaimed should be used. To add emphasis, when God is establishing someone in a position, designated might be used.

Third, the word is used to indicate someone is relocated, as in transferred into Christ. In contrast to the meaning of invite, this action is not optional, so summoned, set apart or transferred should be used.

If these changes were adopted by our translations, using specific English words for each differing meaning, much confusion would be eliminated.

Lets look at a few examples:

Matthew 22:3NASB
And he sent his slaves to call those who had been invited to the wedding feast, and they were unwilling to come.

Interpretive translation
"... to invite those who had been invited...."

Matthew 2:23 NASB
and came and settled in a city called Nazareth. This happened so that what was spoken through the prophets would be fulfilled: “He will be called a Nazarene.”

Interpretive translation
"... He will be proclaimed a Nazarene."

Matthew 4:21 NASB
Going on from there He saw two other brothers, James the son of Zebedee, and his brother John, in the boat with their father Zebedee, mending their nets; and He called them.

Interpretive translation
"... and He summoned them.

Some might consider "invited" but scripture teaches He chose them, thus summoned captures that reality.

Van · 2026-10-05T11:35:57-0500

Another Greek word, closely related in its multiple meanings is "Kelos" G2822. This word appears in the NT about 10 times.

Here is how it is used based on context:

Invited:
Matthew 22:14, Revelation 17:14

Designated
Romans 1:1, 1 Corinthians 1:1

Set Apart
Romans 1:6, 1:7, 8:28; 1 Corinthians 1:2, 1:24; Jude 1:1

Usually when different Greek words share the same or similar meaning, transparency can be amplified by using synonyms such as entreated rather than invited. However, with "set apart" you lose the relationship with sanctification, sanctified, and saint, if you use, say separated. I think the better choice is to use set apart for both words when the meaning is the same, to have been placed into Christ's spiritual body.

Van · 2026-10-05T11:53:57-0500

The NASB translates "Kaleo" G2564 into invite, invites or invited about 17 times.

Matthew 22:3, 22:4, 22:8, 22:29; Luke 7:39, 14:7, 14:8, 14:9, 14:10, 14:12, 14:13, 14:16, 4:17
John 2:2; 1 Corinthians 10:27, Revelation 19:9

Confusion over "Called?"

Van

Well-Known Member

Van

Well-Known Member

Van

Well-Known Member

Van

Well-Known Member

Van

Well-Known Member

Van

Well-Known Member

Van

Well-Known Member