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Firing Squad at Ft Hood, Tx

Martin Marprelate

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
There used to be public executions, FYI.
In Britain, public executions of criminals were required by law until 1865.
The idea that they reduce crime is a myth. In the early 18th Century, lawlessness was at a peak and in desperation the government made 160 crimes punishable by death i.e. public hanging. The hangings became a great spectacle, but they did no good in the sense of deterring crime. One such crime was pickpocketing. It is reported that pickpockets were operating in the very crowds that were watching a man being hanged for pickpocketing.
What reduced crime was the "Great Awakening" - the revival that began around 1735 and is associated with George Whitefield and John and Charles Wesley.
 

Foxmeister

Active Member
The state has the right to execute.

Christians should not participate nor should we applaud the execution of anyone.

BYW, I think he is at Fort Leavenworth Kansas, though he killed people at Fort Hood.

BTW #2, “we will probably never know why he did it…’

Peace to you
Leavenworth is the military's only maximum security facility. There are 36 global correctional facilities in the military. Not every military installation has one, including Ft. Hood. Military personnel at Ft. Hood facing courts-martial are detained at the Bell County Jail.
 

Salty

20,000 Posts Club
Administrator
There used to be a lot of things. Please, tell me what possible good can
come from shooting this to death man in public?

Radical Islamists blow themselves up every day..so it's certainly not going to
be viewed as a "deterrent".
After the execution - it is guaranteed that individual will not murder anyone else!
 

Foxmeister

Active Member
Romans 13
Unless the authorities want you to go against God.
What I do not like seeing is how people become bloodthirsty and taking delight in another man's death. It should be a somber occasion and we need to remember as much of a scum bag that Nidal Hassan is, he is still an Imago Dei those who name the name of Christ need to acknowledge this.
I agree with this. You also see how blood thirsty people are in the botched execution of Christa Pike.

In Britain, public executions of criminals were required by law until 1865.
Public executions were common in the US as well. A public hanging in Kentucky drew a crowd of 20,000 in 1936. The last public hanging was in 1937.
The only part I disagree with is that it's going to be livestreamed. That footage is going to live on the internet forever and can have unintended consequences, like memes being generated and passed around on social media.
I agree. There is no doubt in my mind that we will see a bad reaction from the Islamic extremist that will include the deaths of several innocent people. My question is, what is Trump's motive for having the execution livestreamed? He knows this will result in a reaction from the Islamic extremists. This is like poking a stick at a lion.
 
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canadyjd

Well-Known Member
After the execution - it is guaranteed that individual will not murder anyone else!
And will guarantee they will never have another opportunity to respond to the gospel with saving faith.

Bottom line, would you rather he be dead and in hell or saved and in heaven?

Why not give that wretched man every second of his natural life to come to Christ?

Just as a reminder.. we all deserve the death penalty for our rebellion against God. We received God’s grace instead

Peace to you
 

canadyjd

Well-Known Member
Unless the authorities want you to go against God.

I agree with this. You also see how blood thirsty people are in the botched execution of Christa Pike.


Public executions were common in the US as well. A public hanging in Kentucky drew a crowd of 20,000 in 1936. The last public hanging was in 1937.

I agree. There is no doubt in my mind that we will see a bad reaction from the Islamic extremist that will include the deaths of several innocent people. My question is, what is Trump's motive for having the execution livestreamed? He knows this will result in a reaction from the Islamic extremists. This is like poking a stick at a lion.
You just cannot resist taking a dig at Donald Trump!

Good grief. You are obsessed!!

Peace to you
 

SovereignGrace

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
There used to be a lot of things. Please, tell me what possible good can
come from shooting this to death man in public?

Radical Islamists blow themselves up every day..so it's certainly not going to
be viewed as a "deterrent".
Were ppl publicly stoned to death in the OT? I know ppl will say that was the OT and today is different. But Romans 13 is proof that executions are biblical today.
 

SovereignGrace

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
In Britain, public executions of criminals were required by law until 1865.
The idea that they reduce crime is a myth. In the early 18th Century, lawlessness was at a peak and in desperation the government made 160 crimes punishable by death i.e. public hanging. The hangings became a great spectacle, but they did no good in the sense of deterring crime. One such crime was pickpocketing. It is reported that pickpockets were operating in the very crowds that were watching a man being hanged for pickpocketing.
What reduced crime was the "Great Awakening" - the revival that began around 1735 and is associated with George Whitefield and John and Charles Wesley.
However, I see no changing of taking a life meaning they forfeit their life, to life in prison with or without the possibility of parole. What we need to realize is it is the government’s job to carry this out. It is the church’s job to witness to them the gospel. It is not the church’s role to execute them. If a Christian has a spouse murdered, it is biblical to pray for the murderer’s salvation while at the same time demanding biblical justice. It’s not an either/or but both.
 

Foxmeister

Active Member
You just cannot resist taking a dig at Donald Trump!

Good grief. You are obsessed!!

Peace to you
Do you agree with everything Trump says and does?

I treat Trump no differently than I did Biden or any other president. In my lifetime, I have never blindly followed any president. There was plenty of issues I disagreed about in each and every administration.
One thing I have noticed about people who have undying loyalty to Trump is they are no different to those who had undying loyalty to any other president. You, like them attack those that disagree with your guy. Y'all act like, "How dare you say anything negative about ________." I've had dedicated Trump loyalists accuse me of being a liberal because I disagree with something Trump says or does. I'm a conservative who calls it the way I see it.

Do you excuse Trump's lies by saying he's playing 5 level chess while his opponents are playing checkers? A lie is a lie. During his debate with Harris in 2025, he stated he would bring an end to the war between Ukraine and Russia while president-elect. Listen for yourself.


I can provide more if you wish.
 

Foxmeister

Active Member
I think the only social media platform that will be willing to livestream the execution will be Trump's Truth Social. I wouldn't be surprised if it was also livestreamed on whitehouse.gov.
 

canadyjd

Well-Known Member
Exactly where are you referencing?
The first Chapter of 1 Timothy.

The Apostle Paul says he is the worst of sinners. Paul was a murderer. By his own admission, he persecuted Christians to the death.

He tells Timothy that God showed mercy toward him as an example that future Christians are to follow.

You cannot follow the commandment of God to show mercy toward the worst of sinners (even murderers like Paul) if you support killing them.

Very hard teaching for most, I think. It took me a long time of prayer and Bible study to accept this truth.

God has given governments the authority to administer the death penalty and at the same time doesn’t want Christians to have any part of it.

We are called to be different from the world. Let the world embrace death. Let Christians embrace the new life found in our Lord Jesus.

Peace to you
 

SovereignGrace

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
The first Chapter of 1 Timothy.

The Apostle Paul says he is the worst of sinners. Paul was a murderer. By his own admission, he persecuted Christians to the death.

He tells Timothy that God showed mercy toward him as an example that future Christians are to follow.

You cannot follow the commandment of God to show mercy toward the worst of sinners (even murderers like Paul) if you support killing them.

Very hard teaching for most, I think. It took me a long time of prayer and Bible study to accept this truth.

God has given governments the authority to administer the death penalty and at the same time doesn’t want Christians to have any part of it.

We are called to be different from the world. Let the world embrace death. Let Christians embrace the new life found in our Lord Jesus.

Peace to you
So, God was unjust to demand life for life, when murder was committed? Is that what you are saying? That is the silent part of your stance. Apostle Paul even stated if he did something worthy of death, he would submit to being put to death [Acts 25:11] Apostle Paul never spoke out against the death penalty, but approved of it.
 

SovereignGrace

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
The first Chapter of 1 Timothy.

The Apostle Paul says he is the worst of sinners. Paul was a murderer. By his own admission, he persecuted Christians to the death.

He tells Timothy that God showed mercy toward him as an example that future Christians are to follow.

You cannot follow the commandment of God to show mercy toward the worst of sinners (even murderers like Paul) if you support killing them.

Very hard teaching for most, I think. It took me a long time of prayer and Bible study to accept this truth.

God has given governments the authority to administer the death penalty and at the same time doesn’t want Christians to have any part of it.

We are called to be different from the world. Let the world embrace death. Let Christians embrace the new life found in our Lord Jesus.

Peace to you

I don't want you to think I'm putting words in your mouth, but if you reject the death penalty, you are rejecting a clear biblical mandate. Look at the thief on the cross. Our Lord forgave him, but he still died for the deed(s) he did. That is both mercy and biblical justice being carried out.
 

Foxmeister

Active Member
Interesting topic. The question comes down to does God sanction capital punishment. One argument is He does because were instructed to obey government. That brings up another question. Are we to obey government laws? What if the government outlawed Christianity? Would you deny being a follower of Christ to save yourself or would you just voluntarily let them execute you? Remember, you're human.

Is the government courts always right when someone is convicted of murder? Here are some examples I found where those executed for murder were later to be found innocent.

  • Cameron Todd Willingham (Executed 2004, Texas): Convicted of murdering his three children by intentionally setting a fire to his home. Modern fire science and independent investigations proved the fire was accidental and not arson.
  • Carlos DeLuna (Executed 1989, Texas): Put to death for the murder of a convenience store clerk. A later, comprehensive investigation by Columbia Law School revealed he was a victim of mistaken identity and that another man with a matching appearance and name, Carlos Hernandez, had repeatedly bragged about committing the crime.
  • George Stinney Jr. (Executed 1944, South Carolina): A 14-year-old Black boy convicted by an all-white jury in a one-day trial with no written confession or physical evidence. A judge vacated his conviction 70 years later, ruling that he was denied fundamental constitutional due process.
  • Ruben Cantu (Executed 1993, Texas): Executed for a murder committed during a robbery when he was 17. The sole surviving eyewitness later recanted his testimony, and Cantu's co-defendant signed a sworn confession stating Cantu was not present.
  • Larry Griffin (Executed 1995, Missouri): Sentenced to death for a 1980 drive-by shooting. Later investigations revealed that the state's key eyewitness testimony was unreliable and that physical and corroborating evidence heavily cast doubt on his guilt.
  • Claude Jones (Executed 2000, Texas): Executed largely based on a single strand of hair. Subsequent DNA testing performed years later proved the hair did not belong to Jones.
Hopefully they were Christians and are now in Heaven. But what if they weren't? They'd be in Hell. They were murdered because they were actually innocent of the crime. Should our attitude be, "Ooops, oh well?" Because these men were falsely convicted, their executions were not justice. Does anyone really believe that God sanctioned their executions? I don't. Because these men were actually innocent, the government murdered them. Some are going to say what happened to them was an accident.

Some people, even many who are Christians complain about how much tax dollars are "wasted" on keeping someone in prison for life. They also complain about the years a person is on death row before they are executed. They actually blame the government for the length of time a person is on death row before their execution.

I used to be one of them. I no longer believe in capital punishment because so many have been convicted of murder to later be proven innocent while in prison and sadly after they were executed. An innocent person wrongfully convicted and executed who may not have been saved was denied the opportunity by cutting his life short and literally condemning him to Hell. Was God happy about that?

I have no doubt that some will accuse me of being a liberal. The truth is when it comes to politics I'm an independent conservative. However, above all else I am a follower of Christ first. The two men on the crosses with Jesus were thieves. Just because the government sentenced them to death doesn't make them right, nor does it mean God approved of it.

Think about it.
 

Ascetic X

Well-Known Member
Interesting topic. The question comes down to does God sanction capital punishment. One argument is He does because were instructed to obey government. That brings up another question. Are we to obey government laws? What if the government outlawed Christianity? Would you deny being a follower of Christ to save yourself or would you just voluntarily let them execute you? Remember, you're human.

Is the government courts always right when someone is convicted of murder? Here are some examples I found where those executed for murder were later to be found innocent.

  • Cameron Todd Willingham (Executed 2004, Texas): Convicted of murdering his three children by intentionally setting a fire to his home. Modern fire science and independent investigations proved the fire was accidental and not arson.
  • Carlos DeLuna (Executed 1989, Texas): Put to death for the murder of a convenience store clerk. A later, comprehensive investigation by Columbia Law School revealed he was a victim of mistaken identity and that another man with a matching appearance and name, Carlos Hernandez, had repeatedly bragged about committing the crime.
  • George Stinney Jr. (Executed 1944, South Carolina): A 14-year-old Black boy convicted by an all-white jury in a one-day trial with no written confession or physical evidence. A judge vacated his conviction 70 years later, ruling that he was denied fundamental constitutional due process.
  • Ruben Cantu (Executed 1993, Texas): Executed for a murder committed during a robbery when he was 17. The sole surviving eyewitness later recanted his testimony, and Cantu's co-defendant signed a sworn confession stating Cantu was not present.
  • Larry Griffin (Executed 1995, Missouri): Sentenced to death for a 1980 drive-by shooting. Later investigations revealed that the state's key eyewitness testimony was unreliable and that physical and corroborating evidence heavily cast doubt on his guilt.
  • Claude Jones (Executed 2000, Texas): Executed largely based on a single strand of hair. Subsequent DNA testing performed years later proved the hair did not belong to Jones.
Hopefully they were Christians and are now in Heaven. But what if they weren't? They'd be in Hell. They were murdered because they were actually innocent of the crime. Should our attitude be, "Ooops, oh well?" Because these men were falsely convicted, their executions were not justice. Does anyone really believe that God sanctioned their executions? I don't. Because these men were actually innocent, the government murdered them. Some are going to say what happened to them was an accident.

Some people, even many who are Christians complain about how much tax dollars are "wasted" on keeping someone in prison for life. They also complain about the years a person is on death row before they are executed. They actually blame the government for the length of time a person is on death row before their execution.

I used to be one of them. I no longer believe in capital punishment because so many have been convicted of murder to later be proven innocent while in prison and sadly after they were executed. An innocent person wrongfully convicted and executed who may not have been saved was denied the opportunity by cutting his life short and literally condemning him to Hell. Was God happy about that?
By that same reasoning, nobody should ever be imprisoned because some innocent individuals have been imprisoned.

People must repent and get saved while still alive. Government execution is only one way they could die.

Numbers 35:31

Moreover ye shall take no payment for the life of a murderer who is deserving of death, but he shall be surely put to death.

Leviticus 24:17

And he that killeth any man shall surely be put to death.
 

Foxmeister

Active Member
By that same reasoning, nobody should ever be imprisoned because some innocent individuals have been imprisoned.
That's ridiculous. If a person is sentenced to prison and then later is found to be innocent, then that person can be released. However, when a person is wrongfully convicted and executed, that person cannot be released if later found to be innocent. Do you see the difference?
 

JonC

Moderator
Moderator
Why not support it? God instituted it. It’s called biblical justice.
I do not think we can apply the instructions in the OT to contemporary settings. We may, but at the same time we have to consider the purpose for killing the killer, which leads to different views.

It is hard to miss that those who shed man's blood were to be killed. It is equally hard to miss the first instance of man killing man and God protecting that murderer from being killed.

I believe the purpose for executions in the OT was to preserve a people (prior to and under the Law). If I am correct then it does not apply today.

Either way, it is not justice (it does not right a wrong, it does not create a just situation from injustice, etc)
 
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