• Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Do We Receive Faith?

Martin Marprelate

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Philippians 1:29. 'For to you it has been granted on behalf of Christ, not only to believe in Him, but also to suffer for His sake.'
The Greek word translated 'granted' is charizomai, from which we get the word 'charismatic.' It has the meaning of 'bestowed' or 'freely given.' Faith is therefore a gift of God. Upon whom is it bestowed? Upon those described in Phil. 1:1: 'To all the saints in Christ Jesus who are in Philippi' and by extension to all saints everywhere.
Paul asks the Corinthians, 'What do you have that you did not receive?' (1 Cor. 4:7). The context is not directly to faith, but it's worth asking ourselves the question.

Suffering is not the spiritual gift that most people hope for, but suffering nobly borne can, in the will of God, have a profound effect upon unbelievers, as the suffering of Naomi did upon Ruth.
 
Last edited:

Kai

Active Member
Philippians 1:29. 'For to you it has been granted on behalf of Christ, not only to believe in Him, but also to suffer for His sake.'

What is "it" that has been granted?

Philippians 1:27 (ESV)
Only let your manner of life be worthy of the gospel of Christ, so that whether I come and see you or am absent, I may hear of you that you are standing firm in one spirit, with one mind striving side by side for the faith of the gospel


Paul asks the Corinthians, 'What do you have that you did not receive?' (1 Cor. 4:7). The context is not directly to faith, but it's worth asking ourselves the question.

If faith has been received and is a settled matter, then why does Paul instruct the Corinthians to be "found faithful" in the sight of God?

1 Corinthians 2:4-5 (ESV)
Moreover, it is required of stewards that they be found faithful. But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged by you or by any human court. In fact, I do not even judge myself. For I am not aware of anything against myself, but I am not thereby acquitted. It is the Lord who judges me.
 

LaGrange

Active Member
Philippians 1:29. 'For to you it has been granted on behalf of Christ, not only to believe in Him, but also to suffer for His sake.'
The Greek word translated 'granted' is charizomai, from which we get the word 'charismatic.' It has the meaning of 'bestowed' or 'freely given.' Faith is therefore a gift of God


I agree. We call it a charismatic gift as seen in 1 Cor 12:9 “To another, faith in the same spirit: to another, the grace of healing in one Spirit:” (DRV) It’s a gift but also a gift for the whole church. This particular kind of faith is an extraordinary confidence in obtaining anything or in working miracles. It is not the common faith of all believers. An example would be Matt 15:28.


Upon whom is it bestowed? Upon those described in Phil. 1:1: 'To all the saints in Christ Jesus who are in Philippi' and by extension to all saints everywhere.

I think this particular kind of Faith is not the same faith that all Christians have. It’s built on top of that same general faith all christians have but it’s given to only a few of those same christians. It’s like the gift of teaching: 1 Cor 12:28 “And God indeed hath set some in the church; first apostles, secondly prophets, thirdly doctors: after that miracles: then the graces of healings, helps, governments, kinds of tongues, interpretations of speeches. (DRV) Not everyone is given the ability to teach. Of course, not everyone performs miracles, heals or prophecies either.

Paul asks the Corinthians, 'What do you have that you did not receive?' (1 Cor. 4:7). The context is not directly to faith, but it's worth asking ourselves the question.

I agree. It’s all received.
 

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
I’m not anti-Calvinist or anti-Arminian either, but I do think that this is actually one of the verses where the Calvinist interpretation gets caught in a bit of an inconsistency.

Many will suggest that when someone comes to faith, that is the result of God’s predestination of everything that happens in time. So in that sense, we receive our faith because it was determined to happen ahead of time.

The Arminian might push back and say that means God forces people into faith without their consent. They will respond and say no—what God really predestines is a change of nature in some people. Only then they can respond positively to the Gospel by their own volition.

Well, which is it? Does God force people into belief, or does he force a change in nature? The answers will vary.
No, the answer from scripture does not vary.

Those born anew were chosen through faith in the truth. This means we had some sort of understanding of God as Savior and Lord before we were chosen for salvation. Therefore the Calvinist claim is obviously false. Full Stop.

What does God predestine? Again, scripture provides the answer and it does not vary. God declares the end from the beginning. He prophecies. He says this or that will happen, and then He makes that thing happen. He says we were predestined to be conformed to the image of Christ. Who is the we, foreseen individuals chosen before time? Nope. We existed as NOT a chosen people, so our election for salvation must occur during our physical lifetime. 1 Peter 2:9-10. The scriptural answer is "once chosen for salvation" then, and only then, are we predestined as a chosen individual to be conformed to the image of Christ. Ditto for being predestined for adoption at Christ's second coming. Ditto to receive our inheritance being kept in heaven.

The premise God compels people to believe is also false because scripture says otherwise. Why, as Ambassadors of Christ do we "beg" people to be reconciled? Because they are NOT compelled. Why did God test Abraham to see if he actually believed in God's promises. Because Abraham's believe was not compelled. When Abraham raised his knife, then God said stop, now I know....
 

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
THIS ANSWERS BOTH OF YOUR POSTS

Hi Van,
I first want to thank you for your comments and to remind you that I’m catholic. I’ve been studying Arminianism and Calvinism and have questions and, of course, I will make comments too.

Anyway, interesting thoughts you have! Accreditation would probably be right. Or imputation. I think the idea with both Arminianism and Calvinism is that grace is in Christ and Inheres in Him. It doesn’t Inhere in man. Then, at the moment you are born again, that grace is transferrred to you and passes through you to save you but it doesn’t stay in you. Faith is there as an attendant or something like that. That’s my understanding. For us, the grace stays in us. We are not filled with grace. We receive a down payment. A pledge or earnest (2 Cor 1:22; Eph 1:14).

I would agree that “chosen” occurs when you are regenerated. We believe that happens at baptism. Not to confuse you but we are also chosen (as a preparation before full regeneration) when we receive prevenient grace before baptism (like the arminians). I think it happens initially in Arminianism when you receive prevenient grace. It happens in Calvinism when you receive the effectual call (full regeneration).
I think the only viable alternative to receiving God's accreditation, is the idea the gospel is the work product of God so when we embrace it, we accept and receive as truth the gospel. But I think accreditation is more likely.

Let's back up and look at this statement: "Then, at the moment you are born again, that grace is transferred to you and passes through you to save you....," I believe this statement does not reflect the sequence given in scripture.

1) When are we born anew? When we undergo the washing of regeneration.
2) When are we regenerated? When we are made alive together with Christ.
3) When are we "together with Christ?" When God has taken us our of the realm of darkness and transferred us in the kingdom of His Son.
4) When are we transferred into Christ's spiritual body? When we were "called" into His marvelous light. When we were baptized into Christ. When we believed into Him. Any verse that refers to us being "in Him" refers to us after we have been transferred. The transfer is our redemption, our salvation.
5) Prevenient grace has no basis in scripture, it is a fiction necessitated by the false belief the lost are unable to believe the gospel. The idea God would condemn us for unbelief, when unable to believe is irrational. The lost are unable to understand the spiritual solid food (meat) things of the Spirit, but are able to understand and believe the spiritual milk things, such as the fundamentals of the gospel, of the Spirit of God.
 

Dave G

Well-Known Member
What is "it" that has been granted?
" For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;
30 having the same conflict which ye saw in me, and now hear [to be] in me." ( Philippians 1:29-30 )


1) To believe on Christ.
2) To suffer for His sake.
 
Last edited:

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Philippians 1:29
For to you it has been granted for Christ’s sake, not only to believe in Him, but also to suffer on His behalf,

Once again I see where a vague term "granted" above, is assumed to refer to "the gift of faith." Fiddlesticks.

How does Christ benefit from those He redeems? We serve in His ministry of reconciliation. And in that service we suffer on His behalf. We have been allowed to believe, God did not harden our hearts, such as in Romans 11.

And for the umpteenth time, we are chosen for salvation through faith, which requires we had some sort of faith BEFORE we were chosen. Full Stop

Therefore "allowed"is the only interpretation possible given the constraints of scripture.
 

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
1 Corinthians 4:7 NASB
For who considers you as superior? What do you have that you did not receive? And if you did receive it, why do you boast as if you had not received it?

Here the idea is that we started out in life pretty much with nothing. Yes, we had our nature, our physical design which may enable us with the characteristics common to human beings. But without receiving benefit from others, we would have died within days if not hours. We had no experience or education, just the knowledge and ability to squall for help.

We all suffer from pride, but it is commonly found in those unaware of just how little they know, and how much they need God.
 

Martin Marprelate

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
I agree. We call it a charismatic gift as seen in 1 Cor 12:9 “To another, faith in the same spirit: to another, the grace of healing in one Spirit:” (DRV) It’s a gift but also a gift for the whole church. This particular kind of faith is an extraordinary confidence in obtaining anything or in working miracles. It is not the common faith of all believers. An example would be Matt 15:28.

I think this particular kind of Faith is not the same faith that all Christians have. It’s built on top of that same general faith all christians have but it’s given to only a few of those same christians. It’s like the gift of teaching: 1 Cor 12:28 “And God indeed hath set some in the church; first apostles, secondly prophets, thirdly doctors: after that miracles: then the graces of healings, helps, governments, kinds of tongues, interpretations of speeches. (DRV) Not everyone is given the ability to teach. Of course, not everyone performs miracles, heals or prophecies either.
The faith spoken of in Phil. 1:29 is the faith of all believers, as I explained in my post. "If you can believe, all things are possible to him who believes" (Mark 9:23). This is not to be taken quite literally, but things that seem impossible become possible through faith (c.f. Zech. 4:6-10).
I agree. It’s all received.
:Thumbsup
 

Kai

Active Member
" For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;
30 having the same conflict which ye saw in me, and now hear [to be] in me." ( Philippians 1:29-30 )


1) To believe on Christ.
2) To suffer for His sake.

I still think "it" requires clearer definition here.

Certain monergists might argue this amounts to saying, "The ability is granted to believe in Him." If that's the case, then both sides are in agreement. However, no one can possess this ability without encountering the Gospel message, so I still think all of it points back to verse 27.
 
Last edited:

LaGrange

Active Member
The faith spoken of in Phil. 1:29 is the faith of all believers, as I explained in my post. "If you can believe, all things are possible to him who believes" (Mark 9:23). This is not to be taken quite literally, but things that seem impossible become possible through faith (c.f. Zech. 4:6-10).
Greek word translated 'granted' is charizomai, from which we get the word 'charismatic.' It has the meaning of 'bestowed' or 'freely given.' Faith is therefore a gift of God. Upon whom is it bestowed?

Hi Martin,
I stand corrected. You are right. This verse is talking about the Faith of all believers. I wasn’t looking at the verse so much as your rendering of the meaning as “charismatic”. That threw me off. That affected everything else I said. To us, the term “charismatic” is usually used to specifically describe the Gifts as in 1 Cor 12. All grace is received (freely given) whether it’s the charismatic gifts or the faith of all believers (1 Cor 4:7).
 

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter

Monergism refers to the biblical belief that God alone, without depending on the person, causes the salvation of the individuals He chooses to save. This is proven by Romans 9:16​


The lost have the innate ability to grasp the fundamentals of the gospel and believe it. This is why Paul spoke to the lost using "spiritual milk." And this is why soils #2&3 of Matthew 13 affirmatively responded to the gospel, but they chose not fully commit to it, and so their "faith" was NOT credited as righteousness. The backwards tradition is the lost are granted the ability to believe, when scripture teaches some of the lost lose their ability to believe, such as when their hearts are hardened by the practice of sin.

Every professing Christian "received" the faith, the truth presented in the gospel. However, some are wheat, and others are "tares," people whose "faith" was not credited as righteousness. They were not set apart within Christ, and were not made alive, born anew, regenerated together with Christ. But those born anew "received" the accreditation of their faith, God counted it as righteousness. So when Peter says a "faith" like ours, he must be referring to accredited faith.
 
Last edited:

Ben1445

Well-Known Member
That it is a gift given/granted to men to believe and have faith in Jesus Christ is clear. That it is not given to some men is where the discussion truly lies.
That God has not granted the opportunity to look and live to certain people makes God a selector of persons. This is not the character of God revealed in Scripture. What is stated is that God will reward each person according to their own deeds. NOT working for salvation. But Scripture says that God will render every man according to his deeds. One may not expect to reject Jesus Christ and hear Him say “enter into the joy of thy Lord.”
 

Dave G

Well-Known Member
That God has not granted the opportunity to look and live to certain people makes God a selector of persons. This is not the character of God revealed in Scripture.
"And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given." ( Matthew 13:10-11 ).

"At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.
26 Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight.
27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and [he] to whomsoever the Son will reveal
[him]." ( Matthew 11:25-27 ).

" What shall we say then? [Is there] unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
16 So then [it is] not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will [have mercy], and whom he will he hardeneth."
( Romans 9:14-18 ).

" Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
6 And if by grace, then [is it] no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if [it be] of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded
8 according as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear unto this day."
( Romans 11:5-8 ).
 
Last edited:

Ben1445

Well-Known Member
"And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given." ( Matthew 13:10-11 ).

"At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.
26 Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight.
27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and [he] to whomsoever the Son will reveal
[him]." ( Matthew 11:25-27 ).

" What shall we say then? [Is there] unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
16 So then [it is] not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will [have mercy], and whom he will he hardeneth."
( Romans 9:14-18 ).

" Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
6 And if by grace, then [is it] no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if [it be] of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded
8 according as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear unto this day."
( Romans 11:5-8 ).
Matthew 18:3
And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

And the opportunity to reject the wisdom of the world is never given to them? Is it not rather that they have committed themselves to the wisdom of the world that keeps them in the place where God does not override their “wisdom?”

What are they blinded by?
Has God blinded them or their own sin?
Ephesians 4:17-19
This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind, Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart: Who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness.

God, or the wisdom of this world?
1 Corinthians 3:19
For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness.

God, or the God of this world?
2 Corinthians 4:4
In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
 

Brightfame52

Well-Known Member
Philippians 1:29
For to you it has been granted for Christ’s sake, not only to believe in Him, but also to suffer on His behalf,

Once again I see where a vague term "granted" above, is assumed to refer to "the gift of faith." Fiddlesticks.

How does Christ benefit from those He redeems? We serve in His ministry of reconciliation. And in that service we suffer on His behalf. We have been allowed to believe, God did not harden our hearts, such as in Romans 11.

And for the umpteenth time, we are chosen for salvation through faith, which requires we had some sort of faith BEFORE we were chosen. Full Stop

Therefore "allowed"is the only interpretation possible given the constraints of scripture.
Van,

Your attempt to scream "fiddlesticks" at the plain text of Philippians 1:29 is a total white flag. You are forced to invent an entirely new definition of the Greek language, changing a word that explicitly means "to give graciously as a gift" into "passive permission," all to protect the idol of human free will.

1. Total Lexical Failure on Charizomai

You claim that "granted" is a vague term that only means "allowed." Van, the Greek word is ἐχαρίσθη (echaristhē), derived directly from χάρις (charis)—the word for Grace. Every standard Greek lexicon on earth (BDAG, Thayer's, Vine's) defines charizomai as "to give freely, to bestow graciously, to grant as a gift."

Let's test your private definition against how Paul uses this exact word elsewhere:
  • Romans 8:32: "He that spared not his own Son... how shall he not with him also freely give (charizomai) us all things?" Does God merely "allow" us to have all things?
  • Ephesians 4:32: "...even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven (charizomai) you." Does God merely "permit" our sins to be forgiven?
Your redefinition turns the text into absolute nonsense. The passive voice indicates that the subject is the recipient of an action. Faith is not an autonomous human choice that God merely "tolerates"; it is an active gift graciously bestowed upon the soul.

2. The Ironclad Parallel of Appointed Suffering and Sovereign Faith

Paul hooks two distinct realities to the exact same verb (echaristhē): believing and suffering. The text reads: "For to you it has been granted... not only to believe in Him, but also to suffer on His behalf."

Apply your theology here, Van. If "granted" only means "allowed," then you must argue that God merely permits us to suffer, and that we must independently manufacture our own trials. It is completely absurd. Look at how Paul defines suffering in 1 Thessalonians 3:3: he commands that no man be moved by afflictions, "for yourselves know that we are appointed thereunto." The word there is keimetha, meaning set, destined, or laid down by decree.

Look at the unyielding symmetry of Paul's theology. Sufferings are not passive accidents; they are actively destined and appointed by God for His elect. Therefore, because the suffering is a fixed sovereign appointment, the gift of believing on Christ's name is a correspondingly active, sovereign appointment. God authoritatively decrees the afflictions of His saints, and He graciously bestows the gift of faith.

And make no mistake—this gift is not merely given as a reactionary tool to match those trials. Paul puts the foundational weight on the act of faith itself: it is granted to believe on His name. God sovereignly gives the primary gift of saving faith to unite the elect soul to Christ, and then correspondingly grants the secondary privilege of suffering for His sake. Both are corporate covenant gifts driven by His sovereign will, not human permission.

3. The Chronological Absurdity of "Faith Before Election"

You close with a massive theological blunder, claiming: "we are chosen for salvation through faith, which requires we had some sort of faith BEFORE we were chosen. Full Stop."

Van, think about the timeline. Ephesians 1:4 declares that God chose His elect in Christ before the foundation of the world. Humans did not exist. The cosmos did not exist. How could a non-existent human creature manufacture "some sort of faith" in eternity past before God passed His sovereign decree of election?


You are completely reversing the scriptural order of salvation. Faith is not the cause of election; faith is the Practical Phase fruit and evidence of an eternal election. As 1 Peter 1:2 explicitly states, we are elect unto (eis) obedience. God didn't look down a calendar to find people who already had faith; He sovereignly chose a remnant, Christ legally redeemed them at the cross, the Spirit vitally quickened them, and therefore they were granted the gift of faith to believe on His name and suffer for His sake. The text remains an unshakeable monument to absolute sovereign grace.


 

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Van,

Your attempt to scream "fiddlesticks" at the plain text of Philippians 1:29 is a total white flag. You are forced to invent an entirely new definition of the Greek language, changing a word that explicitly means "to give graciously as a gift" into "passive permission," all to protect the idol of human free will.

1. Total Lexical Failure on Charizomai

You claim that "granted" is a vague term that only means "allowed." Van, the Greek word is ἐχαρίσθη (echaristhē), derived directly from χάρις (charis)—the word for Grace. Every standard Greek lexicon on earth (BDAG, Thayer's, Vine's) defines charizomai as "to give freely, to bestow graciously, to grant as a gift."

Let's test your private definition against how Paul uses this exact word elsewhere:
  • Romans 8:32: "He that spared not his own Son... how shall he not with him also freely give (charizomai) us all things?" Does God merely "allow" us to have all things?
  • Ephesians 4:32: "...even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven (charizomai) you." Does God merely "permit" our sins to be forgiven?
Your redefinition turns the text into absolute nonsense. The passive voice indicates that the subject is the recipient of an action. Faith is not an autonomous human choice that God merely "tolerates"; it is an active gift graciously bestowed upon the soul.

2. The Ironclad Parallel of Appointed Suffering and Sovereign Faith

Paul hooks two distinct realities to the exact same verb (echaristhē): believing and suffering. The text reads: "For to you it has been granted... not only to believe in Him, but also to suffer on His behalf."

Apply your theology here, Van. If "granted" only means "allowed," then you must argue that God merely permits us to suffer, and that we must independently manufacture our own trials. It is completely absurd. Look at how Paul defines suffering in 1 Thessalonians 3:3: he commands that no man be moved by afflictions, "for yourselves know that we are appointed thereunto." The word there is keimetha, meaning set, destined, or laid down by decree.

Look at the unyielding symmetry of Paul's theology. Sufferings are not passive accidents; they are actively destined and appointed by God for His elect. Therefore, because the suffering is a fixed sovereign appointment, the gift of believing on Christ's name is a correspondingly active, sovereign appointment. God authoritatively decrees the afflictions of His saints, and He graciously bestows the gift of faith.

And make no mistake—this gift is not merely given as a reactionary tool to match those trials. Paul puts the foundational weight on the act of faith itself: it is granted to believe on His name. God sovereignly gives the primary gift of saving faith to unite the elect soul to Christ, and then correspondingly grants the secondary privilege of suffering for His sake. Both are corporate covenant gifts driven by His sovereign will, not human permission.

3. The Chronological Absurdity of "Faith Before Election"

You close with a massive theological blunder, claiming: "we are chosen for salvation through faith, which requires we had some sort of faith BEFORE we were chosen. Full Stop."

Van, think about the timeline. Ephesians 1:4 declares that God chose His elect in Christ before the foundation of the world. Humans did not exist. The cosmos did not exist. How could a non-existent human creature manufacture "some sort of faith" in eternity past before God passed His sovereign decree of election?


You are completely reversing the scriptural order of salvation. Faith is not the cause of election; faith is the Practical Phase fruit and evidence of an eternal election. As 1 Peter 1:2 explicitly states, we are elect unto (eis) obedience. God didn't look down a calendar to find people who already had faith; He sovereignly chose a remnant, Christ legally redeemed them at the cross, the Spirit vitally quickened them, and therefore they were granted the gift of faith to believe on His name and suffer for His sake. The text remains an unshakeable monument to absolute sovereign grace.


1) Yet another taint so post, again falsely claiming the word's usage includes granting or allowing something.

2) LOL, granted is a vague term, it can refer to allowing some to do something, like allowing someone to believe, rather than hardening his heart, or it can refer to giving someone something they did not possess beforehand

3) I have explained Ephesians 1:4 dozens of times, none of these "taint soers" ever address that view. They just copy and paste the same arguments from the dark ages.
 

Brightfame52

Well-Known Member
1) Yet another taint so post, again falsely claiming the word's usage includes granting or allowing something.

2) LOL, granted is a vague term, it can refer to allowing some to do something, like allowing someone to believe, rather than hardening his heart, or it can refer to giving someone something they did not possess beforehand

3) I have explained Ephesians 1:4 dozens of times, none of these "taint soers" ever address that view. They just copy and paste the same arguments from the dark ages.
Van,

Your response has officially degenerated into total logical panic. You are contradicting yourself in back-to-back sentences, evading plain Greek vocabulary, and running away from the text because your timeline has completely shattered.
Let the forum look closely at how your own words just dismantled your own theology:


1. Your Blatant, Back-to-Back Self-Contradiction

Look at what you just wrote, Van. It is a masterpiece of internal confusion:
  • In point 1, you write: "...falsely claiming the word's usage includes granting or allowing something."
  • In point 2, you write: "LOL, granted is a vague term... it can refer to giving someone something they did not possess beforehand."
Van, you are arguing with your own shadow. You accuse me of a "false claim" for saying the text means a gift was granted, and then in the very next breath, you admit the word can mean "giving someone something they did not possess beforehand."

You have just conceded the entire argument. If God is giving the sinner faith that they did not possess beforehand, then faith is an active, sovereign gift bestowed by God, not an autonomous human work manufactured by man's free will. You have effectively refuted your own Arminian system.

2. The Absurdity of Your "Passive Permission" Fallacy

You attempt to rescue your position by claiming that "granted to believe" merely means God allowed someone to believe by simply refraining from hardening their heart.

This is a total logical failure. The Greek word is ἐχαρίσθη (echaristhē), which means to actively, graciously bestow a gift. If a governor grants a pardon to a prisoner, does that mean the governor merely "abstained from executing him," or did he issue an active, positive legal decree?
Furthermore, you are still completely choking on the parallel of the verse. Paul hooks believing and suffering to the exact same verb. If "granted" only means "allowed by not hardening," then you must argue that God merely permits us to suffer by not stopping it, and that we must independently manufacture our own trials. It is a complete absurdity. As 1 Thessalonians 3:3 explicitly states, our sufferings are actively appointed and decreed (keimetha) by God. Because the suffering is an active sovereign appointment, the primary gift of believing on His name is a correspondingly active, sovereignly bestowed gift.

3. You Are Running From the Timeline of Ephesians 1:4

You claim you have explained Ephesians 1:4 dozens of times, yet you completely refused to address the unbending timeline I laid before you. You call historic theology the "dark ages" because you cannot answer a simple question of scriptural chronology.

Your core doctrine states: "we are chosen for salvation through faith, which requires we had some sort of faith BEFORE we were chosen."
Van, Ephesians 1:4 states that God chose His elect in Christ before the foundation of the world.
  • Man did not exist.
  • The earth did not exist.
  • Human free will did not exist.
Explain to the forum right now how a non-existent human being can manufacture "some sort of faith" in eternity past before they even existed to be chosen. You can't answer it. Your system requires the fruit to create the root.

Scripture remains completely unshakeable against your synergy. We are elect unto (eis) obedience (1 Peter 1:2). In the Eternal Phase, God sovereignly chooses His remnant; in the Legal Phase, Christ pays their debt at the cross; in the Vital Phase, the Spirit immediately quickens them; and consequently, in the Practical Phase, they are given the gift of faith to believe on His name and suffer for His sake. Your own points have surrendered the debate, Van. Full stop.


 

Brightfame52

Well-Known Member
2 Peter 1:1 (NASB)
Simon Peter, a bond-servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, to those who have received a faith of the same kind as ours, by the righteousness of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ

How does the Calvinist and non-Calvinist explain this passage?
Baptizo,

The text of 2 Peter 1:1 is an unshakeable monument to Sovereign Grace. It explicitly establishes that saving faith is an imported gift legally purchased by Christ and sovereignly distributed to His elect, rather than an autonomous product of the human will.
To see this clearly, we must look at the precise vocabulary the Holy Spirit inspired Peter to use, which is perfectly mirrored by the Apostle Paul.

1. The Mechanics of Lagchanō (Divine Allotment)

Peter addresses his letter: "...to those who have received [obtained] a faith of the same kind as ours."
The Greek word for "received" here is λαχοῦσιν (lachousin). In the ancient Greek language, this word does not denote actively reaching out to take an available offer. It literally means "to receive by divine lot" or "to have a portion assigned by a higher power." It is the exact same word used in John 19:24 when the Roman soldiers cast lots to see who would be assigned Christ's garment.

Peter's grammar establishes that the readers were the passive recipients of a divine lottery. God drew their names in the Eternal Phase of election, legally purchased their rescue at the Cross, and sovereignly assigned them a portion of saving faith.

2. The Unbending Parallel of Romans 12:3

This is not an isolated proof-text. The Apostle Paul uses the exact same vocabulary of divine distribution to describe how a person comes to possess faith. In Romans 12:3, Paul commands us to think soberly, "...according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith."
The word for "dealt" is ἐμέρισεν (emerisen), which means "to divide up, measure out, and distribute a portion."
Look at the unyielding harmony between the Apostles:
  • Peter says faith is received by divine lot (lagchanō).


  • Paul says faith is a measured portion distributed by God (merizō).
3. The Destruction of the Synergistic Evasion

Non-Calvinists will routinely try to claim that Romans 12:3 means God gives a little bit of saving faith to every individual human being on earth without exception. But the context utterly destroys this universalism. In Romans 12:4-5, Paul explicitly limits "every man" to the members of the "one body in Christ."

To understand why God sovereignly deals out this faith, we must trace it back to Paul's foundational covenant theology in Romans 4:16. Paul declares that the promise is "of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed... [Abraham] who is the father of us all."

Look at the unyielding covenantal logic:
  • God passed an eternal decree to ensure that the promise would be infallibly sure to every single member of Abraham’s multi-ethnic, spiritual seed (elect Jews and Gentiles alike).
  • If faith were left to the corrupt, volatile, free will of the natural man, the promise would never be sure for anyone, and the covenant would fail.
  • Therefore, to secure the promise for all the seed, God Himself acts as the distributor.
The "measure of faith" dealt out in Romans 12:3 and the "allotted faith" received in 2 Peter 1:1 are not universal permissions. They are the exclusive divine allotments assigned to Abraham's spiritual seed. Faith is the supernatural mark of identity that the Holy Spirit infuses into the elect in the Vital Phase, bringing their hidden sonship out into the open light of the Practical Phase. God doesn't look down a calendar to find out who has faith; He actively distributes faith to identify and gather His one, unchangeable, eternal Church.


 
Top