Age of Accountability

Question

Ultimately in order to be saved will all who have lived as flesh and blood beings need to be changed, for the corruptible to put on incorruption, and the mortal to put on immortality;? Is that true because of the sin of Adam which brought the death to all?

According to the Word of God; When does one put on that which is mortal? When does the mortal put on immortality?

Heb 9:27 YLT and as it is laid up to men once to die, and after this -- judgment,
Acts 17:31 YLT because He did set a day in which He is about to judge the world in righteousness, by a man whom He did ordain, having given assurance to all, having raised him out of the dead.'

Are the dead being judged, today? Or are they raised out of the dead unto judgement?


He did set a day in which He is about to judge the world in righteousness From Acts 17:31
And this one thing let not be unobserved by you, beloved, that one day with the Lord is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day; 1 Peter 3:8 YLT
1 Cor 15:22-26 YLT for even as in Adam all die, so also in the Christ all shall be made alive, and each in his proper order, a first-fruit Christ, afterwards those who are the Christ's, in his presence, then -- the end, ]the end of being made alive] -- the end, when he may deliver up the reign to God, even the Father, when he may have made useless all rule, and all authority and power -- for it behoveth him to reign till he may have put all the enemies under his feet -- the last enemy is done away -- [the] death; / the rest of the dead

Rev 20 tells us this day, those who are the Christ's, in his presence and the rest of the dead ie when last enemy is destroyed is a thousand years.

The day the inhabited earth is judged in righteousness is as a thousand years.

I'm going to let the righteous Judge be the judge relative to myself and those babies.

Salty said:

So most of us believe that babies who die - will go do Heaven.
Do you believe the Scriptures teach that?

We have heard the term "Age Of Accountability"
( I know the Bible does not use that term - and it does not mention Trinity!)

So is there a concept of the age of accountability"

If a man still has the brain of a one-year old - would he go to Heaven?

I realize that this discussion can go in several directions - and that is okay

Open for discussion

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History unfolds in a dispensational format. Most believe there are 7 dispensation from beginning to end starting with innocence and knowing nothing. Newborn babies sure fill that bill. The wages of sin is death we are told and we know that it is not a sin to be born otherwise Jesus was a sinner because at one time he was a newborn baby.

As the babe matures he becomes conscious of his personhood and he begins to learn of his surroundings. But in this stage he has not learned law and there is a couple more steps before he gets there and becomes accountable. Steps like human government, starting usually with his parents and extending outward and then his responsibilities in a family.

I like to illustrate a man who is no farther along than conscience by comparing him with a man who has matured to the point of law and how God holds them accountable. Stay with me here.

God tells us this in 58 AD.

Ro 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam s transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

Cain killed his brother Abel one day and what God did was this;

11 And now [art] thou cursed from the earth, which hath opened her mouth to receive thy brother s blood from thy hand;
12 When thou tillest the ground, it shall not henceforth yield unto thee her strength; a fugitive and a vagabond shalt thou be in the earth.
He even placed a mark on Cain so others would not kill him

Here is the guy that had progressed as far as law.

32 And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day.
33 And they that found him gathering sticks brought him unto Moses and Aaron, and unto all the congregation.
34 And they put him in ward, because it was not declared what should be done to him.
35 And the LORD said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp.
36 And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the LORD commanded Moses.

To be honest, it seems that killing one's brother is far more serious than gathering sticks on the Sabbath day. But I am not God and he has his ways.

So my vote is a person is accountable when he can understand the law of God that is built into his conscience and acts against what he knows is right.

Verse 31-31 gives us the condition of he who was under the law.

30 But the soul that doeth ought presumptuously, whether he be born in the land, or a stranger, the same reproacheth the LORD; and that soul shall be cut off from among his people.
31 Because he hath despised the word of the LORD, and hath broken his commandment, that soul shall utterly be cut off; his iniquity shall be upon him.

There are no children in hell, but neither are there any in heaven.

Aaron said:

There are no children in hell, but neither are there any in heaven.

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Purgatory?? if not where??

The souls of children and infants are not children and infants themselves. So it's not as if, when the body dies, it's a child or little baby crawling into the afterlife.

Aaron said:

The souls of children and infants are not children and infants themselves. So it's not as if, when the body dies, it's a child or little baby crawling into the afterlife.

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Who and what are they mentally? How would you make a logical leap from infancy to adulthood and what scriptural basis would you build this upon?

Armchair Apologist said:

Who and what are they mentally? How would you make a logical leap from infancy to adulthood and what scriptural basis would you build this upon?

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I don’t always (maybe even rarely) agree with Aaron. But I don’t see where he is wrong here. If a person dies in Christ, he is a new creature. When our bodies are resurrected (of which point I’m not positive about Aaron’s position), they will be made new. When Adam was made, he was not made as a baby.
Are you saying that we are going to age in eternity, that eternity will be full of perpetual babies?

Our physical bodies age. That our souls age with our bodies is true. We do grow in wisdom. But why does a spiritual being need to grow up as if they have a babies body?

Aaron said:

The souls of children and infants are not children and infants themselves. So it's not as if, when the body dies, it's a child or little baby crawling into the afterlife.

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The souls of children and infants are children and infants, same as their bodies.

In the afterlife God transforms mortal bodies into immortal, resurrected bodies.

I am sure God in His wisdom will adjust the bodies and souls appropriately, probably making everyone an ideal age like 22 or 30, with souls developed accordingly, babies being who they could have been.

Heaven will not contain inarticulate babies crawling around or elderly people limping by.

Ascetic X said:

Heaven will not contain ...or elderly people limping by.

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Wait - are you saying I will not be getting my military disability check?

Ben1445 said:

Are you saying that we are going to age in eternity, that eternity will be full of perpetual babies?

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No, I am not sure how they will look but they never developed mentally into the person they would have become and I do not see them just automatically becoming an "adult" but then again, we have Adam whom God created out of the dust of the earth. He was a fully grown, physically developed adult male the day God created him yet he likely lacked all of the cognizant development one would have received while growing up but he was also able to quickly learn as well. Perhaps this will be how those who die in infancy will be immediately following the resurrection? Fact of the matter is, we can only speculate on what might happen. I'm sure the Lord has the best possible scenario in mind for these who will likely outnumber the rest of us!

Ben1445 said:

Our physical bodies age. That our souls age with our bodies is true. We do grow in wisdom. But why does a spiritual being need to grow up as if they have a babies body?

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We will not be spiritual beings in the resurrection. We will have glorified bodies and will be complete, glorified human beings as God has created us!

Some believe we will know all there is to know in the age to come but I strongly disagree with this. We will be without sin but I believe we will still be quite human with a curious, inquisitive mind where we will want to learn and know all there is to know about God and his creation that will be all around us!

Armchair Apologist said:

No, I am not sure how they will look but they never developed mentally into the person they would have become and I do not see them just automatically becoming an "adult" but then again, we have Adam whom God created out of the dust of the earth. He was a fully grown, physically developed adult male the day God created him yet he likely lacked all of the cognizant development one would have received while growing up

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I don’t see that at all. He had been given mastery of language from the beginning. He named all the animals.
He was given an occupation immediately. God thought enough of his maturity to give him a job right away.
He had a wife the first day he was alive. Last time I knew, that is not common. God gave him significant responsibility on day one. And this is not one sided either (no pun originally intended). Eve’s job on day one of life was to be Adam’s help. This doesn’t sound like babies to me.
I’m quite sure that they were qualified to do the jobs they were given when they were given them.

Armchair Apologist said:

but he was also able to quickly learn as well.

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Evidence for learning quickly versus being created with the knowledge expected of a mature adult who was commanded on day one of his existence to be fruitful and multiply?

Armchair Apologist said:

Perhaps this will be how those who die in infancy will be immediately following the resurrection? Fact of the matter is, we can only speculate on what might happen. I'm sure the Lord has the best possible scenario in mind for these who will likely outnumber the rest of us!

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I don’t think that is going to be a bunch of babies crawling around.
People won’t even be married. Why would any number of them be infants?

Armchair Apologist said:

We will not be spiritual beings in the resurrection. We will have glorified bodies and will be complete, glorified human beings as God has created us!

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Complete is the word!! Not incomplete and immature beings.

Armchair Apologist said:

Some believe we will know all there is to know in the age to come but I strongly disagree with this. We will be without sin but I believe we will still be quite human with a curious, inquisitive mind where we will want to learn and know all there is to know about God and his creation that will be all around us!

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I believe God will give us the knowledge we need when we need it. I don’t think we will be on the same learning curve we are on now.
I think there is no comparison between our physical appearance and our future resurrected appearance as far as mental acuity and especially appearance goes.
If new comers to eternity are babies, then you should expect that your own new body will also be a baby.

Armchair Apologist said:

Who and what are they mentally?

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They are the same people they are when they come of age, and 'mentally'...(I prefer the word 'consciously') they have an understanding surpassing any who've lived to a ripe old age.

Armchair Apologist said:

How would you make a logical leap from infancy to adulthood and what scriptural basis would you build this upon?

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It's not really a leap. In the interest of brevity, I'll hammer out a terse description of the rationale. You won't find it satisfying, because it's just a bare bones outline, but at least you'll see the structure. Trust me, I would love to go into incredible detail, citing modern real world examples and such, but it would make for an interminable post and no one would read it.

The Scriptural premises

1) The only way to the Father for any human being is by grace through faith in Jesus Christ. There are no exceptions.

2) Faith is an operation of the spirit, and the consciousness, or the mind, is not a material thing. The brain, a material organ, is not the seat of one's mind or consciousness. The spirit is.

3) Jacob and Esau fought in the womb. It was fighting, not just moving to get comfortable. They were fighting, and wars and fightings come from the lusts that war in our members. There is the operation of the mind, will, and emotions

4) John the Baptist recognized Mary's greeting and lept for joy in Elisabeth's womb.

5) In the Resurrection, are we raised aged or in wheelchairs and hospital beds?

My conclusion is that childhood and adulthood are earthly things, not spiritual things. When Christ put on flesh, He was neither omniscient, nor omnipresent, and there were things He had to learn, but none of that was true of His Spirit.

Armchair Apologist said:

Some believe we will know all there is to know in the age to come but I strongly disagree with this. We will be without sin but I believe we will still be quite human with a curious, inquisitive mind where we will want to learn and know all there is to know about God and his creation that will be all around us!

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1Jo 3:2 KJV – Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

1Co 13:12 KJV – ... now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

Oh, as far as age of accountability...that is an earthly thing too. From the point of view of Heaven, one is either corrupt or whole, and one can only be made whole by faith in Jesus Christ.