How To Win Souls

I am glad JOJ , that you didn't label all Calvinists as having denied the Great Commission . Because this one certainly holds to it .

Originally posted by Rippon:
I am glad JOJ , that you didn't label all Calvinists as having denied the Great Commission . Because this one certainly holds to it .

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Praise the Lord, brother. Have at it.

I have a 5-point friend who I met in college 35 years ago who is ardent about obeying the Great Commission. He supports us here in Japan at $200/month, and is currently on a personal project to write a Gospel letter to every single household in his home town.

Way to go Rippon! God Bless you.

Originally posted by John of Japan:
I'm sorry, pinoybaptist, you have obviously never really studied the Great Commission. Let me guess, are you a 5-point Calvinist of the Primitive Baptist stripe who opposes any and all evangelism? If so, you are the type of chap who, though a "pastor," refused to allow an evangelist of my aquaintance to witness about Christ to his sons in Texas about 80 years ago.

(1) Notice in the context of the Great Commission as given in Luke (24:44-49) that it was given to "the eleven gathered together, and them that were with them" (24:33). If the 11 apostles and the believers gathered with them on the Lord's day does not mean the church to you, you really need to fix your doctrine.

(2) Look in the book of Acts, which is full of folks both big and small, apostles and averge believers giving the Gospel. I'd much rather follow their example than the Primitive Baptist example.

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Well, first, you are wrong about me, John of Japan. I have experienced everything that most of the people on this board have.
Street preaching ?
I've done it in the worst places of Manila, which is rabidly Catholic.
Witnessing door to door ? Tell me about that.
Starting a Bible Study ? Heck, everyday occurence for Bible College students.
Starting a church from scratch ? The church I started while still Arminian is now more than two hundred strong if all came to attend, and that church deep in the heart of Catholic territory in a slum, depressed, section of Manila where drugs are an everyday occurence, and where we often got rained with stones and feces of all kinds on Sunday night.
Threats to life and limb ? Old hat to this ignorant heretic.

Now, back to your Luke 24:32-33. Here it is:

And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?
And they rose up the same hour, and returned to Jerusalem, and found the eleven gathered together, and them that were with them,

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In case you have not noticed, these are the two disciples whom Jesus walked with on the way to Emmaus, and from whom Jesus disappeared while they were breaking bread.
These are they who found the eleven disciples, not Jesus, and these are they who confirmed the resurrection of Jesus.
And Jesus spoke to these, on the road to Emmaus, about himself, not about going out to win souls thru the preaching of the gospel.

Again, I affirm, the so-called 'Great Commission' exists only in the minds of those who are convinced that the death of Jesus Christ for his own cannot fully take effect unless they helped out.

For the record, no Primitive Baptist worth his salt, will ever say he is against the preaching of the gospel.
But every Primitive Baptist worth his salt will protest if the preaching of the gospel is put in the wrong context and reasons.
The gospel is to be preached as a declaration of a finished and given salvation, not a salvation that is merely a possibility based on the man's will or responsibility, or based on the man's having heard the gospel thru the words of a preacher man.
The gospel does not regenerate, but it instructs men who are regenerate.
Take the Ethiopian Eunuch as your example.
Did he believe because Philip instructed him about Isaiah 53 ?
No. Philip's response to the Eunuch's desire to be baptized was 'IF' thou believest with all thine heart....
The Eunuch was a child of God from the beginning, even before he met Philip. Philip was sent to instruct, not to cause his salvation thru the preaching of the gospel.

Originally posted by pinoybaptist:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by John of Japan:
I'm sorry, pinoybaptist, you have obviously never really studied the Great Commission. Let me guess, are you a 5-point Calvinist of the Primitive Baptist stripe who opposes any and all evangelism? If so, you are the type of chap who, though a "pastor," refused to allow an evangelist of my aquaintance to witness about Christ to his sons in Texas about 80 years ago.

(1) Notice in the context of the Great Commission as given in Luke (24:44-49) that it was given to "the eleven gathered together, and them that were with them" (24:33). If the 11 apostles and the believers gathered with them on the Lord's day does not mean the church to you, you really need to fix your doctrine.

(2) Look in the book of Acts, which is full of folks both big and small, apostles and averge believers giving the Gospel. I'd much rather follow their example than the Primitive Baptist example.

Click to expand...

Well, first, you are wrong about me, John of Japan. I have experienced everything that most of the people on this board have.
Street preaching ?
I've done it in the worst places of Manila, which is rabidly Catholic.
Witnessing door to door ? Tell me about that.
Starting a Bible Study ? Heck, everyday occurence for Bible College students.
Starting a church from scratch ? The church I started while still Arminian is now more than two hundred strong if all came to attend, and that church deep in the heart of Catholic territory in a slum, depressed, section of Manila where drugs are an everyday occurence, and where we often got rained with stones and feces of all kinds on Sunday night.
Threats to life and limb ? Old hat to this ignorant heretic.

Now, back to your Luke 24:32-33. Here it is:

And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?
And they rose up the same hour, and returned to Jerusalem, and found the eleven gathered together, and them that were with them,

Click to expand...

In case you have not noticed, these are the two disciples whom Jesus walked with on the way to Emmaus, and from whom Jesus disappeared while they were breaking bread.
These are they who found the eleven disciples, not Jesus, and these are they who confirmed the resurrection of Jesus.
And Jesus spoke to these, on the road to Emmaus, about himself, not about going out to win souls thru the preaching of the gospel.

Again, I affirm, the so-called 'Great Commission' exists only in the minds of those who are convinced that the death of Jesus Christ for his own cannot fully take effect unless they helped out.

For the record, no Primitive Baptist worth his salt, will ever say he is against the preaching of the gospel.
But every Primitive Baptist worth his salt will protest if the preaching of the gospel is put in the wrong context and reasons.
The gospel is to be preached as a declaration of a finished and given salvation, not a salvation that is merely a possibility based on the man's will or responsibility, or based on the man's having heard the gospel thru the words of a preacher man.
The gospel does not regenerate, but it instructs men who are regenerate.
Take the Ethiopian Eunuch as your example.
Did he believe because Philip instructed him about Isaiah 53 ?
No. Philip's response to the Eunuch's desire to be baptized was 'IF' thou believest with all thine heart....
The Eunuch was a child of God from the beginning, even before he met Philip. Philip was sent to instruct, not to cause his salvation thru the preaching of the gospel. </font>[/QUOTE]Hey, I said nothing about your experience in the Lord's work before you decided to deny the Great Commission. You brought that up! It has nothing to do with the subject at hand. What I said was that "you have obviously never really studied the Great Commission," and I stick to that. You have disproved nothing I said about the Great Commission.

Look again at Luke 24. In verse 33 the two who met Jesus on the road went back and met the eleven and those gathered with them. Then in verse 36 Jesus appeared to ALL of them, both the two who met Him previously and the 11 and those gathered with them. Then in 44-49 He informs them that they will be witness of His death and resurrection and atonement for sins (the gospel, as in 1 Cor. 15:1-8). So as I said before, the Great Commission in Luke was given to more than the 11.

If that is not enough for you, try the Great Commission in John 20, where Jesus says to the "disciples" (not specifically the 11) that they were being sent just as He had been (v. 21). Now we know from Corinthians that there were over 500 disciples at that time who saw the resurrected Christ. This is trimmed down in the group that prayed at Pentecost, but it is still much more than the 11. So the Great Commission in John is not just to the 11, but to all the disciples. If you are not a disciple, it doesn't apply to you. Ignore it!

By the way, you know what? Isn't it amazing how many more people the Sovereign God decides to elect where the Gospel is preached much (such as in America) than where it is preached little (such as in Japan)?

Amen John!!

I see the commision to all of us, His disciples.

Also, that is so true that it seems that the Lord does more in places that have less preaching because IMO there is less corruption and less hindering the Spirit.

Sadly, the more "spiritual" America becomes the less it seems the Spirit is truly working. If we knew God as much as we claim (86%) then why do we have all the troubles we have in America and all the rampant sin in our culture? Is that other 14% demon possessed? Or what?

Originally posted by Rippon:
I am glad JOJ , that you didn't label all Calvinists as having denied the Great Commission . Because this one certainly holds to it .

Click to expand...

As does this one- being a foreign missionary.

Look at the results! Ray Comfort, along with his friend Kirk Cameron have been very effective in leading people to Christ (and keeping them there rather than it being a flase conversion). The Bible is the ultimate book, and their ministry ( www.wayofthemaster.com ) teaches evangelism straight from it.