Who is the RESTRAINER of the AC?

It's plausible. Certainly more plausible than the retrib idea. I don't know if i would say tha it s the most plausible explanation.

The major problem of course is the verb "katexo". The senatinc range of possibilities is rather large, and the context of 2Thess 2 is not altogether helpful in narrowing the possibilities. I know that BAGD has "restrain, check" listed with this passage, but oither options, like hinder, or occupy are not irreconcilable with the context.

On exegetical grounds I tend to prefer either Michael or God (his power). I know there's an aexgetical case for civil government but I don't find it very persuasive.

Historically, Paul and the Gospel have good attestation, as does Rome and the Roman Emperor.

If pushed for a choice I might be inclined, depending on the day to say Michael or God and His power. The other options fade into the background for me.

 

I'll join you on the pathos side, Dr. Bob

 

I'm with Dr. Bob , the Holy Spirit. John 16:8-15

 

Gavin, you can believe in a pretrib position and still think the restrainer is Michael, the (only) Archangel.

 

That's a good point Dr. Bob. However I would question whether the events described in Jude actually happened, they being from the Asumption of Moses after all. You are, it seems, resting on the idea that the evnts are historical and accurate depictions of the people and teir limits. That is a questionable premise it seems to me. I have no doubt of course that MOses, Mihael, etc, are REAL people, but I question whether the depiction of them in the A of M is realistic.

 

I believe that the emperorship of the Roman Empire was the restrainer. Once the political kingdom headquartered in Rome fell, the Roman papacy, or what is called the antichrist, was able to assume power and authority over both the nominal Christian church and had far reaching temporal power and authority as well.

Ken

[ October 31, 2002, 04:31 PM: Message edited by: Ken Hamilton ]

 

Gavin,

I am a postmillennialist and therefore only a partial preterist.

I think any of the four major eschatological views serve the church well as the focus of all four is on Jesus and the salvation of His people.

Peace,

Ken

 

Hello!

I'm back!!

2 Thess 2:6-7 is the mostly hot debate than any verse in the Bible today.

Myself notice there are few different views of being to identify restrainer:

Holy Spirit
Church
God
Satan
Antichrist
Roman Empire
Archangel Micheal

Which one of them is correct?

Early Church intepreted 2 Thess 2:7 - 'he' is Roman Empire. Nearly no Early Christians saying, 'he' is Holy Spirit in their time.

When I first heard on 2 Thess 2:7 'he' is Holy Spirit as restrainer, when the Holy Spirit leaves, as the Church rapture then Antichrist to be revealed years ago. I was not really not understand what 2 Thess 2:7 is talking about. Although, I accepted their teaching. The way they teaching on 2 Thess 2:7 - 'he' is Holy Spirit as restrainer is teaching by Baptists.

I am still a Baptist since I was a pretribber before. Today, I am still a Baptist, while I am a posttribber.

I consider 2 Thess 2:7 is the most difficult to interpreting.

10 years ago, I read two books - "The Sign", and "Prewrath Rapture". Both books believe 2 Thess 2:7 'he' is Archangel Micheal.

I do not agree with them. I already talked to Gavin in person about 2 Thess 2:7. I told him, Apostle Paul does not identify 'he' is Archangel Micheal. Gavin told me, he believes 'he' is Archangel Micheal. I respect him well.

I do study 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8 many times.

The key that we could understand 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8 better is, we have to read contextually from verse 1 to 8, so, we could understand the whole context what Paul was talked about.

Before Paul wrote second epistle to the Church of Thessalonica. He already wrote the first epistle to the Church of Thessalonica, explained about the coming of the Lord. The first epistle of Thessalonians is the theme or topic is about the coming of the Lord.

After he wrote the first epistle to them. I believe Paul might already heard rumours from Christians in the area of Thessalonica about the timing of Christ's return. I am sure he was upset with them. They were misunderstood him on the coming of the Lord.

So, he have to write another epistle to the Church of Thessalonica again. He have to explain to them on the coming of the Lord again.

That's why, Paul told them, that he beseeches them to pay attention to his teaching repeat on the coming of the Lord - 2 Thess 2:1.

Paul told them, that he told them, don't be panic, worry, high hope, excellent by hear the rumors on the day of Christ is already arrived or anytime - 2 Thess 2:2.

Paul told them, don't let anyone deceive them on the rumours or false teaching on the timing of Christ's return. He told them, day of Christ will NOT come till we will see falling away first(apostasy), and we will see Antichrist to be revealed BEFORE day of Christ comes - 2 Thess 2:3.

Paul told them, Antichrist will be blasphemy against God, as he exalteth himself as God, and he will rule over the temple of God(Church- 1 Cor. 3:16; & 6:19 too)same with Rev. 13:6-7 - 2 Thess 2:4.

Paul told them, that they remembered what he already explained to them (1 Thess 3:4) that we shall have tribulation and persecutions same with 2 Thess 2:4 & Rev. 13:6-7.

Paul explained to them, what thing is holding back Antichrist from being to be revealed in his time - 2 Thess 2:6. My understanding of 2 Thess 2:6 is talking about Antichrist is now being holding back from being to be revealed, because it is not Antichrist's time to be reaveled yet. Because God is in His control of His time, and the plan.

I have an illustration on 2 Thess 2:6. In the book of Job in the Old Testament. Satan went up to heaven, to face God sat on the throne. Satan asked Him, for the permission if he can harm or kill Job. God told him, no he can't touch Job. Satan obeyed God's authority.

Same with Antichrist, he cannot to be reaveled in his time. Because it is not his time yet. God is in His control of His time. God knows the right time. Then, God will allow Antichrist to be revealed when the time comes.

Paul told them, the mystery of iniquity is already doing work in the world today - 1 John 2:18 & 4:3 - 2 Thess 2:7a.

My understanding of 2 Thess 2:7a is talking about the wicked system is already work spread over the world since creation to today. Because, Paul called Satan, 'god of this world'. God allows Satan to rule over the world, but he is limited by God.

Paul told them, he is now holding back right now -2 Thess 2:7b.

My understanding of 2 Thess 2:7b is talking about Antichrist is now holding back from being to be revealed, because it is not his time yet.

"letteth will let" of KJV seems weak translation to me. It translated from Textus Receptus(Greek) saying holding back. I refers to depend on Textus Receptus translation, because KJV was translated come from Greek. That's why I depend on Greek.

Paul told them, he will be removed out of the midst - 2 Thess 2:7c

My understanding of 2 Thess 2:7c is talking about, God will allow Antichrist to be removed from the mystery when the time comes.

I don't see gathering together or Holy Spirit leaves in 2 Thess 2:7. Not what Paul was talking about.

Remember the hermenuetic rule- Interpreting in Contextually.

Who is 'he' of 2 Thess 2:7? You have to start read with verse 3 first. 2 Thess 2:3 says, "man of sin" means Antichrist. Then, Paul continued explained on Antichrist from verse 3 thru 8.

"himself" "he" "Himself" "he" - 2 Thess 2:4 is context with verse 3 is Antichrist.

"he" "his" - 2 Thess 2:6 is context with verse 3 is Antichrist.

"he" "his" - 2 Thess 2:7 is context with verse 3 is Antichrist.

"Wicked" - 2 Thess 2:8 is context with verse 3 is Antichrist.

You can't find any verse in this chapter saying Holy Spirit.

The contextually of 2 Thess 2:3-8 is focus on Antichrist.

Paul told them, when Antichrist is removed from the midst(mystery) then.... He is revealed - 2 Thess 2:7c - 8!!!

I don't see rapture or removal of the Holy Spirit in 2 Thess 2:7.

2 Thess 2:7 is not talking about rapture or removal of the Holy Spirit. It is talking about Antichrist is now holding back from being to be revealed.

2 Thess 2:7 is not the evidence of pretribulation.

The teaching of 2 Thess 2:7 is the removal of the Holy Spirit by Baptist is only 100 years old doctrine.

Early Church does not teach on 2 Thess 2:7 is the removal of the Holy Spirit. Because pretribulation doctrine was not exist in the Early Church.

Have a nice day!

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 - Amen!

 

Gavin, I would easily recant on the Holy Spirit being the restrainer but I see no need to. I would'nt pound the pulpit on it either, but as far as the church being unprepared I don't believe it will be because of lack of information. Jesus said, "But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, but my Father only."(limited info.) and again,, "Therefore you also be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect." (Be ready now.)Even if we could pinpoint the very hour in which these things take place, it should not effect our preparedness, as Jesus has taught that we should be prepared now.I would'nt bet my life on any of these endtime doctorines. Blessings,WP

 

Sorry, Gavin, but I haven't gotten involved in all of the minutae of eschatology(my interest in minutae is in soteriology). I simply believe there will be a golden age of the church(a long period of time but not necessary a literal thousand years) that has not happened yet when most of the people on the earth will be true Christians before the return of Jesus. I am sure there are other postmillennialists who can explain details that I am not ready to do yet. I do want to get into the details in studying postmillennialism but I haven't done so yet, at this point I believe it on a sorta pro forma basis. I probably know more about the minutae of dispensational premillennialism(I listened Hal Lindsey's radio program for years and years) than I do the other three major eschatological views.

An interesting subject. I'm glad understanding it all correctly isn't necessary for salvation.

Ken

 

Gavin,

Amen. I agree with you.

Early Church were suffered and persecuted by Roman Empire. Many Christians were thrown in Colosseum, eaten to death by wild beasts. Many Christians were hang on the wood pole and burn to death. Apostle Paul were beaten with stripes 39 times 5 times(2 Cor. 11:24)he suffered so painful for Christ's sake.

Christians were persecuted and killed by Catholics during Spanish Inquistion during Middle Age period.

When Russia was communism, many Christians were persecuted by soldiers.

Today, in the Middle East, many Christians are persecuting and killed by Muslims. In China, it is communism, many Christians are killed.

Many Christians are suffering face persecutions in the world today. Are we better than them?

In America, it is freedom, and liberty. We can worship the Lord in America. It is not much persecution in America today. But, wait you will see great persecutions will hit Christians in America in the near future.

Many Christians are looking forward for a blessed hope rapture anytime. I do looking foward for a blessed hope at the second coming. Most Christians are not prepare for the coming persecutions, because they looking for rapture first. Many will be shock and fear and not ready to face persecution in America.

Blessed hope is eternal life, not rapture - Titus 1:2; and 3:7 accord with 2:13.

The Bible does not promise us that we will never face tribulation and persecution. John 16:33 and Acts 14:22 telling us, we will face tribulation and persecution. Because Christ already suffered so much on the cross for us. So, we should be suffer like Jesus' example - 1 Peter 2:21.

We should be prepare for to face persecution anytime in our life. To keep our spiritual and devotion focus on the Lord no matter what kind of the condition we are facing. Lord always care on us.

When the persecute come on you, don't be fear of them, look up on the Lord - Matt 10:28.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 - Amen!