Masonic Lodge

Would ask that you prayerfully investigate this website, especially the "testimonies" and "former worshipful master Jack Harris" link:

http://www.ephesians5-11.org/ex_masons_for_jesus/

[ August 18, 2001: Message edited by: wellsjs ]

 

I'll take a look. Chances are that I've already seen it though. It's getting late so I'm gonna wrap up tonight by saying that anyone who comes away from the craft lodge thinking they've blasphemed God wasn't paying attention. In fact I'd wonder if they were even awake during the initiation. But if they are bothered by it then they should leave. Leaving is permitted and no danger will come.

 

"The purpose of the Hiramic Legend is NOT the re-enactment of some nonsensical fairy tale with a moral attached to it, much like an Aesop’s Fable."

Actually, that's exactly what it is although it may be based on older historical events. And there is NO ressurection. It's a fable with no metaphysical content. It's no more harmful than being a member of a high school drama club. The author of the site is reading in things that ARE NOT THERE.

As far as accusations about leading people astray... We don't recruit. In fact we make it difficult to get in and a candidate is warned time and time again before his initiation that it is not a religion nor is it a substitute. So "Little Johnny" will probably grow up with no idea that the Shrine is anything more than a free hospital.

Also any mason who goes to a Baptist church goes because he believes in the message not to undermine the teachings. Masons do not have to accept other faiths as if they were valid. We only have to give the Jew or Muslim his space and not try to convert him at lodge functions. We also avoid political discussions and anything else that could lead to an argument. It's a matter of courtesy.

[ August 18, 2001: Message edited by: bustr ]

 

Okay I'm really going to bed after this one. The Jack Harris link. I have to wonder how these objectors got into the lodge with an ax to grind. In any case the lodge meeting is not a religious service. If I was in a lodge and a Rabbi was leading the invocation I'd simply pray silently on my own. The same way that people do at football games and other types of meetings or that school children who are allowed a "moment of silence" might do. Of course the non-Christians should really keep their mouths shut or offer to do the invocation themselves. I can tell you that I've never seen this kind of thing. Jack's problem was one of PC policy not of occult practices.

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>The most significant teachings of Freemasonry are contained in the Legend of the Third Degree, the latter part of the Master Mason ritual. During the Legend of the Third Degree, the man being initiated portrays Hiram Abiff - who is unjustly murdered, buried and raised from the grave.

The key factors here are that Hiram Abiff:

1. Was killed.

2. Was buried.

3. Was raised from the grave.

At the conclusion of the Legend of the Third Degree, the new Master Mason is admonished to imitate Hiram Abiff so that he may get into the Celestial Lodge above where the Supreme Architect of the Universe presides. Masonic ritual teaches that imitation of Hiram Abiff is the way to reconciliation with God, whom they refer to as the Supreme, or Great, Architect of the Universe.

All Masons have been introduced to Hiram Abiff in Masonic ritual.

Many men claim to be both a Christian and a Mason. However, once these divergent teachings about how man may be reconciled to God and how he may get into heaven are placed in front of such a man, he has a choice to make. He can be a Christian, or he can be a Mason. Unless a man can have two saviors, he cannot be both a Christian and a Mason. Any profession of Christianity a Mason makes is not credible without repentance. In order to be perceived as credible by those who know the facts, he must renounce his involvement in Freemasonry.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Even if you claim that your lodge doesn't perform the above (which I doubt), you are guilty by association. Have nothing to do with godless myths and old wives' tales; rather, train yourself to be godly. (1 Tim 4:7 NIV)

If you truly love Jesus, you would run in the opposite direction from anything that comes anywhere close to embracing "the darkness!" When Jesus spoke again to the people, he said, "I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life." (John 8:12 NIV) Secretive oaths ARE darkness!

 

First off. Don't ever call me a liar. Our lodge does have a ritual. Our ritual does not involve a ressurection from the dead. Our ritual contains no supernatural content.

"At the conclusion of the Legend of the Third Degree, the new Master Mason is admonished to imitate Hiram Abiff so that he may get into the Celestial Lodge above where the Supreme Architect of the Universe presides. Masonic ritual teaches that imitation of Hiram Abiff is the way to reconciliation with God, whom they refer to as the Supreme, or Great, Architect of the Universe."

That is completely wrong. There is no ressurection. PERIOD.

I would suggest to you that you avoid Freemasonry. I'm staying. There is nothing in freemasonry that could possibly interfere with Christianity. There is a difference between myths, wivestales and just regular stories. Every mason knows that the Hiramic legend is fiction.

"Masonic ritual teaches that imitation of Hiram Abiff is the way to reconciliation with God, whom they refer to as the Supreme, or Great, Architect of the Universe."

We do not try to lead people to salvation through our dramas. All masons are encouraged to commune with God in whatever way their faith dictates. The lodge is not the medium.

Masonry has no plan of salvation because masonry is not a religion. I don't believe that Christians are forbidden from taking these kind of oaths. Masonic oaths don't change your lifestyle one bit. They primarliy involve NOT DOING CERTAIN THINGS which prior to initiation the candidate was NOT DOING IN THE FIRST PLACE. James 5:12 simply refers to making a promise you can't keep. It doesn't need to be interpreted from a Phariseeical, legalistic standpoint.

Again I'd advise you to simply stay away from masonry. No one is asking you to get involved. Witch hunters will always find a scapegoat to blame for their percieved troubles. Nevertheless, the world is a better place because of masonry. 1.5 million dollars a day are poured into Shriners hospitals and they're not even chartered as a charitable organization.

If you love God then show it with your actions. Your energy would be better spent on anything besides crusades, persecutions and witch hunts. You see all you have really succeeded in doing is alienating people. I'd never visit your church now because I'd feel most un-welcome. Refer back to HankD's post then read the following story.

Luke 10:27

And he answering said, `Thou shalt love the Lord thy God out of all thy heart, and out of all thy soul, and out of all thy strength, and out of all thy understanding, and thy neighbour as thyself.'
28
And he said to him, `Rightly thou didst answer; this do, and thou shalt live.'
29
And he, willing to declare himself righteous, said unto Jesus, `And who is my neighbour?'
30
and Jesus having taken up [the word], said, `A certain man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and fell among robbers, and having stripped him and inflicted blows, they went away, leaving [him] half dead.
31
`And by a coincidence a certain priest was going down in that way, and having seen him, he passed over on the opposite side;
32
and in like manner also, a Levite, having been about the place, having come and seen, passed over on the opposite side.
33
`But a certain Samaritan, journeying, came along him, and having seen him, he was moved with compassion,
34
and having come near, he bound up his wounds, pouring on oil and wine, and having lifted him up on his own beast, he brought him to an inn, and was careful of him;
35
and on the morrow, going forth, taking out two denaries, he gave to the innkeeper, and said to him, Be careful of him, and whatever thou mayest spend more, I, in my coming again, will give back to thee.
36
`Who, then, of these three, seemeth to thee to have become neighbour of him who fell among the robbers?'
37
and he said, `He who did the kindness with him,' then Jesus said to him, `Be going on, and thou be doing in like manner.'

 

"Even if you (were to ) claim" is how I intended what I said, so cool your hostility! Yes I will steer clear of Masonry, and if you had any desire to abide by God's Word, you'd do the same! Good day!

 

And another thing. I can tell that you are probably younger than 40. So if you should meet any older masons in your church keep this verse in mind.

1 Timothy 5:1
An aged person thou mayest not rebuke, but be entreating as a father; younger persons as brethren;

 

Your judgment is in error, so your comment is inappropriate.

 

Quote

Buster ---&gt; "If a mason writes something it is his opinion. He does not speak for masonry"

What am I missing? You have made a lot of authoritative and absolute statements about the lodge. Why should I listen to your opinion?

I have heard and read the testimonies, or as you call them "opinions", of many X-Masons. I know their first and last name, in most cases, I could find their phone number and give them a call, I could visit there church, talk to there pastor, pat there kids on the head and I think they wouldn't mind it if I tagged along with them no matter what kind of meeting they attended.

I have to admit that I didn’t read all your posts, so if I missed something please point is out, but if you could tell us a little more about yourself your church and maybe the email addresses of some of your Lodge "Brothers" you would have more creditability.

 

Buster,


Save your breath. People on these boards don't exactly care much for Masons or Catholics and certainly don't accept either as Christians.

My Grandfather was a Mason (coincidently, Mason was also his first name) and he was one of the Godliest men I know. I learned more about recieving God's grace and how to share it with others from him than from anyone.

Unfortunately, that means little when somebody gets up a head of steam over urban myths surrounding Masons.

They seem to see Masons as evil and Catholics as the AntiChrist.

I'm a Hibernian so I guess that puts me somewhere in between.

I've found out the hard way that, on these boards, it's better to pick your battles wisely.

 

[ November 29, 2001: Message edited by: JAMES2 ]

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by War_Eagle:
...

I've found out the hard way that, on these boards, it's better to pick your battles wisely.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

yah find someone that dont know the truth

 

Who in the world are any of us to judge someone else and tell them that they are not a Christian. I have a Grandfather who is a very Godly man and a Christian as well as his father before him and his father before him and so on. They were all masons.

 

Hoss,

Do you know the Lord Jesus Christ?

 

Hoss, My grandfahter was a mason, too. Coincidently, his name was Mason.

He, like yours, was a Christian and was one of the Godliest men I've ever known.

Wait, never mind. I already posted that as war_eagle.

Mike

[ December 10, 2001: Message edited by: Smoke_Eater ]

 

Larry,
In answering your question, "Hoss, do you know Jesus or are you a Christian?"
Yes I do know Jesus and I am a Christian since June of 1985.
I am not a mason and have no desire to be, but I know many Godly people who are.
And maybe I don't know a lot about the masonry, but one thing I do know is this you will never win anybody by angering them.
Yours in Christ,
Hoss

 

Hoss,

I’m sure that you loved your grandfather vary much but good and kind people can be wrong. Your Grandfather has, apparently, gone to meat the Lord. He can not go back and change things. He, like all the rest of us will have to give an account for his deeds on this earth (not to determine salvation, but loss or rewards). If what I, and others on this board, are saying is true, don’t you think your Grandfather would much more rather have been told while he could make changes?

The issue of who are we to judge is a good topic for a new discussion. Are you aware that many sincere Christians have convictions, based upon scripture, that we are supposed to judge? Maybe you would consider starting such a post if you are interested.

Ps: I’m not trying to win anyone, in this thread, I’m trying to warn them.

[ December 27, 2001: Message edited by: Larry ]

 

Bump

 

If everything is on the up and up with masonry...why is it a secret society? Why can't a mason simply tell us what goes on in the meetings? Why so many different stories from masons and ex-masons?
Are other gods accepted or not?
Also, all of the lodges in Tx. are affiliated with an order of the Eastern Star and that's a whole 'nother can of worms.