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Continential Baptist Churches

Discussion in '2000-02 Archive' started by Jeff Weaver, Oct 14, 2001.

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  1. Michael Wrenn

    Michael Wrenn New Member

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    That really wasn't the point I was trying to make.

    I wish someone would address my question.
     
    #21 Michael Wrenn, Oct 15, 2001
  2. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Michael Wrenn:
    Dr. Bob and Roadrunner,

    Why don't you put the charges of heresy aside and answer this question: Would a just and merciful God condemn millions who never heard of Christ to an eternity in hell because of unavoidable ignorance?    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Toa sk that question shows that you and I do not have the same definition of a sovereign God. The potter has freedom to do what he wants.

    I dare say BILLIONS of people will be in hell even though they never heard the name of Jesus. That shows me the magnitude of the GRACE of God and the HOLINESS of God.

    God is not some weak wishy-washy "I love everybody so I'm not going to send them to hell" God. All mankind are born sinners and willingly sinners, 100% deserving of hell. God is the Judge. "Shall not the judge of all the earth do right?"

    That He chose ANYBODY is a miracle. That He chose me is beyond my comprehension.
     
    #22 Dr. Bob, Oct 16, 2001
  3. Roadrunner

    Roadrunner New Member

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    [Dr. Bob and Roadrunner,
    Would a just and merciful God condemn millions who never heard of Christ to an eternity in hell because of unavoidable ignorance?]


    RR- Yes. People, thru sin, of course, deserve to go to hell, because He is as you say....just. That must be the bottom line.

    But when God looks on the unevangelized world, what does he see? People just waiting to be saved, or, every heart in rebellion to him and hatred of him? Romans 3 tells the nasty truth.

    There is always a human instrument in salvation of a soul. Paul is not an example of a person saved without a human element bewcause he did in fact hear the gospel from the mouth of christians. And this same is true for everyone in the world today...nobody will be saved apart from hearing the gospel in some form (radio, tract, sermon, etc) from a believer.

    Sincerely,
    RR

    [ October 16, 2001: Message edited by: Roadrunner ]
     
    #23 Roadrunner, Oct 16, 2001
  4. Michael Wrenn

    Michael Wrenn New Member

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    Bob and Roadrunner,

    That belief logically leads to the conclusion that every baby who dies will go straight to hell.

    Yep, we're worshipping different deities.
     
    #24 Michael Wrenn, Oct 16, 2001
  5. Michael Wrenn

    Michael Wrenn New Member

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    RR,

    No matter what you say about Paul's having heard the gospel from the mouth of Christians, the fact remains that he wasn't converted that way; rather, he was converted directly by the risen Christ. That is the truth that can't be denied.

    I'd like to comment further on this reprehensible idea that every infant is a vile sinner deserving of hell, but I'll have to wait till later.

    And, Dr. Bob, if God's sending billions of people to hell even if they never heard of God or Christ is an example of the magnitude of God's grace, I think you have a warped view of His grace.
     
    #25 Michael Wrenn, Oct 16, 2001
  6. Circuitrider

    Circuitrider <img src=/circuitrider2.JPG>
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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Michael Wrenn:
    ...if God's sending billions of people to hell even if they never heard of God or Christ is an example of the magnitude of God's grace, I think you have a warped view of His grace.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    MW, Romans 1-3 makes an airtight case for the sinfulness of man and the justice of God in sending all sinners hell. Romans 3:4a puts it in clear perspective. "Let God be true, but every man a liar..."

    Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father but by me."

    Peter said under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, "Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved."

    Case closed :D

    Keep in the word!!
     
    #26 Circuitrider, Oct 16, 2001
  7. Roadrunner

    Roadrunner New Member

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    Michael [No matter what you say about Paul's having heard the gospel from the mouth of Christians, the fact remains that he wasn't converted that way; rather, he was converted directly by the risen Christ. That is the truth that can't be denied.]

    I am not denying that. But Paul cannot be equated with a person who has never heard the gospel. You seem to be insisting that God saves people who have never heard the gospel. Ain't true, and Paul doesn't fit your theory.


    Sincerely,
    RR
     
    #27 Roadrunner, Oct 16, 2001
  8. Michael Wrenn

    Michael Wrenn New Member

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    Circuitrider and Roadrunner,

    I think Romans Chapter Two tells a different story.

    I appreciate the tone of those two posts, though.
     
    #28 Michael Wrenn, Oct 16, 2001
  9. EPH 1:4

    EPH 1:4 New Member

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    John the Baptist was filled with the Holy Ghost while he was in his mothers womb, so did he hear the gospel?
     
    #29 EPH 1:4, Oct 16, 2001
  10. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946 Well-Known Member
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    Kiffin you found me out I'm just an ignorant sinner but it's so nice to have all you other brethren for company... Brother Glen :D
     
    #30 tyndale1946, Oct 16, 2001
  11. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Michael Wrenn:
    Dr. Bob, if God's sending billions of people to hell even if they never heard of God or Christ is an example of the magnitude of God's grace, I think you have a warped view of His grace.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Disagree with the Scripture all you want, Michael. Like an anvil being pounded by a hammer.

    Sooner or later it is always the hammer that breaks. The condemnation of all of mankind to eternal hell, apart from the sovereign choice of God to save a few (few there be that go in thereat), is not a doctrine of "Bob" but of "Bible".

    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Michael Wrenn:
    Yep, we're worshipping different deities.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I would "Amen" that. I am searching through some back posts of yours to try to put my finger on just what "god" you worship. Let us know if there is a name.
     
    #31 Dr. Bob, Oct 17, 2001
  12. Michael Wrenn

    Michael Wrenn New Member

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    It is not I who is disagreeing with the scripture. The God I worship is the Father of my Lord, Jesus Christ; I don't know who you worship.

    There is scripture that supports what I believe; just because you deny it doesn't make it so. If you can't deal with it, that's your problem, not mine.

    I get tired of being called unChristian just because I disagree with some of you know-it-alls.
     
    #32 Michael Wrenn, Oct 17, 2001
  13. Jeff Weaver

    Jeff Weaver New Member

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    Here are some points to ponder:

    "And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold [flock], and one shepherd." (John 10:16). Another good one is, "All that the Father giveth me shall some to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out." (John 6:37). Course these are traditional scriptures in Primitive Baptist churches which we believe strongly support what we believe. ;) If these folks hear Jesus' voice, how can one say that believing otherwise is anti-christian. Still yet another scripture for this point of view is found at Romans 9:15, where Paul is reiterating the words of Moses in Exodus 33:19, "I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion." And as for Paul being converted by hearing the gospel, here he says it for himself how it was:
    Galatians 1:15-16: "But when it pleased God, who separted me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace. To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood." Ephesians 2:8-9, By grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God; Not of works, lest any man should boast."

    What we Primitive Baptist refuse to do is to limit God by saying who the objects of God's grace are, we don't know. We don't know every person on this earth. It is literally an impossible task for humans to meet 6 billion other people. We don't know the hearts of all of them. We don't even know with 100% certainty they hearts of our next door neighbors. It is literally impossible for us to know anyone's heart but one's own. And I (and I think most if not all Primitive Baptists) refuse to judge or question God's mercy.

    We know in part, see in part, and look through a glass darkly. But is seems to me these scriptures reserve to God the abilty to do His pleasure among whom ever He will.
     
    #33 Jeff Weaver, Oct 17, 2001
  14. rlvaughn

    rlvaughn Well-Known Member
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    One difference between the Continental Baptist Churches and the majority of Reformed Baptists is in the area of the covenants. Most Reformed Baptists follow the Covenant Theology of the Presbyterian & Reformed branch of protestants. The Continental Baptist Churches follow a New Covenant Theology. Fred Zaspel and others have written of this in detail and it may be found on their websites. It would take to much space here to get into this in detail.
    Check out In-depth Studies, Searching Together, and Fred Zaspel's homepage.

    Bros. Jeff or Glen, do you know where the majority of Primitive Baptists fall on this Covenant issue?

    [ October 17, 2001: Message edited by: rlvaughn ]
     
    #34 rlvaughn, Oct 17, 2001
  15. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Michael Wrenn:
    [QBI get tired of being called unChristian just because I disagree with some of you know-it-alls.[/QB]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Remember Michael it was the epitome of tolerance (YOU) that said we were worshiping different gods. I didn't condemn you to hell for it. Just pointed it out. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>So a Hotentot in Africa who has never heard of Jesus cannot be saved by believing thing else. Nor can the little snot-nosed kid down the block from me who has never been touched by the Gospel. No other way. None.

    Dr. Bob, "he know-it-all" (thank you for the epithet)
     
    #35 Dr. Bob, Oct 18, 2001
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