I am leaving this board

Then why not stay and be a messenger for God?

Until Next Post, Adam

 

What a shame when folks like Bro. Smith feel the need to leave because of someone like Villians, who is allowed to stay.

It's getting too much for me, too, and maybe my time is better spent doing something else. I come here for serious discussions within the realm of Christianity. If I wanted to argue with pagans I'd go elsewhere.

 

Doing what Baptists do best - Quitting or Splitting. We talk a lot about soul liberty, allowing some to believe even bad teaching or wrong doctrine.

And when a moderator moves such discussion to the non-baptist section so it will not affect the general discussions, that is not good enough.

Going to go across the web and start a new site . . . The REAL Baptist Board.

Brethren, I don't agree with the faulty teaching of Arminians. I don't agree with the wrong views on alcohol. And I sure don't like women pastors. But those are all valid discussion areas.

I have not witness Pastor Joshua actually promoting homosexuality. He stated he did not think it was unbiblical. I disagree 100% but defend his right "to be wrong".

I am too much of a Baptist to do anything else.

[ October 08, 2001: Message edited by: Natan'el Bar Tholmai ]

 

I respectfully disagree with you on that Bro. Natan'el. I wouldn't mention soul liberty on the same day with that of Joshua Willines. After closing down a thread by a man, who was frequently removed from the old BB, it was Joshua Willines who leashed out and came to the defense of that fellow. But instead of addressing the topic properly, he used the name “Barnabas” for the subject line. It makes you wonder whether his intention is genuine Christian love for the sinner of practicing homosexuals or whether he is promoting their agenda? And it was only after Dr. Griffin, who changed the topic in the forum heading, that the “good” gentleman got off my case.

His sincerity on the subject doesn’t impress me, for he could be totally sincere but sincerely wrong. His much in-dept study doesn’t impress me either, for if he goes against clear Bible teaching on the subject of homosexuality. Is he then trying to demonstrate to us that he loves the sinner but hates the sin, or just simply advocating the righteousness of homosexual behavior? And during all the discussion on the aberrant behavior of homosexuals, there is never a display of honest desire to search for the truth – only the intent of convincing the membership of this board that he is right (because allegedly he studied this out in detail during his seminary years). I may be old fashioned, but if this is acceptable in our contemporary church setting then surely this must be another sign of the imminent return of our Lord. And if that is true; upon my Lord's return I do not want to be found embracing a practicing homosexual as my brother – only a repentant one!

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Barnabas:
I respectfully disagree with you on that Bro. Natan'el. I wouldn't mention soul liberty on the same day with that of Joshua Willines. After closing down a thread by a man, who was frequently removed from the old BB, it was Joshua Willines who leashed out and came to the defense of that fellow. But instead of addressing the topic properly, he used the name “Barnabas” for the subject line. It makes you wonder whether his intention is genuine Christian love for the sinner of practicing homosexuals or whether he is promoting their agenda? And it was only after Dr. Griffin, who changed the topic in the forum heading, that the “good” gentleman got off my case.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Barnabas, I had a sincere question for you and I wanted to get your attention, so I put your name in the subject. I didn't know the man's past history with the board, and didn't defend him (to my knowledge). It seemed to me that you were squelching debate, and I wanted to ask you where the correct forum for that debate was.

My apologies if this offended you in any way, or if I presented my question improperly. That was not my intent.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Barnabas:
...And during all the discussion on the aberrant behavior of homosexuals, there is never a display of honest desire to search for the truth – only the intent of convincing the membership of this board that he is right (because allegedly he studied this out in detail during his seminary years).<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

People ask, "Why do you believe what you believe?" So I tell them. Those reasons are the result of much honest searching for the truth. Would you rather I leave their questions unanswered? Then they would say, "He couldn't answer us when we asked why!"

What should I do to demonstrate what you would consider a more "honest search for the truth?"

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Barnabas:
I may be old fashioned, but if this is acceptable in our contemporary church setting then surely this must be another sign of the imminent return of our Lord. And if that is true; upon my Lord's return I do not want to be found embracing a practicing homosexual as my brother – only a repentant one!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I try not to place restrictions on where I'll be when Jesus comes back. I just pray I'm where He wants me to be.

Joshua

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Rev. Joshua Willines: Barnabas, I had a sincere question for you and I wanted to get your attention, so I put your name in the subject.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

To get the attention of a member on this board there have been two very effective tools given to those who registered: (1) Email the person direct, or (2) Send a Private Message. Both of these communication devices can be activated simply by clicking on the person’s “Profile.”


<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Smoke_Eater: As I said, I disagree with Joshua's views on homosexuality but whether or not homosexuality is a sin or how big a sin it is isn't an essential of the Christian faith and not something that we should divide over.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I would respectfully disagree with you on this issue. The sin factor in this case is an indisputable Bible fact. However, I tend to agree with you on your observation that the handling of this issue by BroSmith could have been more gracious. But we do not all handle things equally. Although he has his heart right with the Lord, he seems to be lacking in skills to communicate.

 

This is one of the reasons I didn't get into this particular thread about homosexuality.

I don't agree with homosexuality. I also don't agree with calling homosexuals non christians, I do believe there are christians who are homosexuals. I believe the bible calls homosexuality a sin, I also believe that every single one of us sin so we have absolutely no right to actually call any christian who is a homosexual a non christian.

One question, how exactly do the baptists minister to the lost if they are so insistant and refusing to even associate with them? "I'm better than you because I'm a christian", I'm a bit tired of this attitude, in thinking of them as "pegans", you will never have the vision the bible speaks of in reaching the world for Jesus.

Where there is no vision the people perish.

Sue

 

You're right. I didn't think of either of those options, and I apologize.

Joshua

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by myreflection26:
I don't agree with homosexuality. I also don't agree with calling homosexuals non christians, I do believe there are christians who are homosexuals. I believe the bible calls homosexuality a sin, I also believe that every single one of us sin so we have absolutely no right to actually call any christian who is a homosexual a non christian. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sue:

Would you consider the following:

"I don't agree with ___________. I also don't agree with calling __________ non christians, I do believe there are christians who are __________. I believe the bible calls __________ a sin, I also believe that every single one of us sin so we have absolutely no right to actually call any christian who is a _________ a non christian."

Now, would you fill in the blank with these possibilites: murder (murder, murderers, et.al.); sorcerers, idolaters, heretics, blasphemers, thieves, liars, pedophiles, rapists, etc. Is homosexuality a better sin than all of these?

Matthew 7:16-21 (ESV)
You will recognize them by their fruits. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? [17] So, every healthy tree bears good fruit, but the diseased tree bears bad fruit. [18] A healthy tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a diseased tree bear good fruit. [19] Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. [20] Thus you will recognize them by their fruits.
[21] "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.


<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> One question, how exactly do the baptists minister to the lost if they are so insistant and refusing to even associate with them? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You are committing a non sequiter here, as separation from professed believers who remain in unrepentant sin is commanded, while eating with disbelieving sinners is also commanded. Don't confuse the two.

1 Cor. 5:9-13 (ESV)
I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people— [10] not at all meaning the sexually immoral of this world, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. [11] But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of sexual immorality or greed, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or swindler—not even to eat with such a one. [12] For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge? [13] God judges those outside. "Purge the evil person from among you."

 

Amen to that Chris!

 

And another Amen. If he was willing to repent of this vile sin, it would be a different story. Or if he were truly searching for the truth. But he is not. He has made his mind up and is trying to get other people to accept that it is o.k. to be homosexual and still be a christian. Yes we are all sinners, but we don't all willfully sin. Our flesh is sinful and we sometimes fall into many snares, but a christian who practices sin and endorses it, is not a christian, but a wolf in sheeps clothing. And the Bible says to mark them.

 

Joey,

That's an interesting perspective. Because I disagee with you, I'm not "truly searching for the truth."

Please don't respond by saying, "It's not me you disagree with, it's the Bible." From the start this has been a dispute over the interpretation of the Bible, not it's relevance. I believe the Bible is our ultimate authority, I just don't believe it condemns committed, monogamous homosexuality.

Joshua

 

Barnabas,

I didn't say it wasn't a sin, it is. I said that it wasn't an essential of the historic Christian faith, and it's not.

I'll say again that this isn't something that we should divide over.

This is an issue that Christians of good conscience can disagree.

It's baffling to me that Smith and others spend all of their time condemning gays, yet never talk about ways to reach out to gays. To my knowledge, no one was ever hated into the Kingdom.

Mike

[ October 08, 2001: Message edited by: Smoke_Eater ]

 

Yawn...

This is getting tiring. Let's stop the he said, she said. Instead if this topic is to continue let's continue it where it belongs, in the other religion forums and only the people who are willing to talk about it in a respectful, godly manner need post.

Until Next Post, Adam

 

Joshua, stop! There is no reason to use any other literature or books or what any other person on this world has to say on the issue apart from the word of God. Straight up truth. Are you willing to get everything you've read, pro or con, out of your mind and start over, just reading straight from the word of God as if you'd never thought about it before? Just clear your mind of all thoughts about it and then start reading the word of God, and ONLY the word of God about it. ?
Gina

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> Just clear your mind of all thoughts about it... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, that certainly explains some of the ideas we've heard here.

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Smoke_Eater: To my knowledge, no one was ever hated into the Kingdom.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You are absolutely right! But that is not the question here. For I do not see anybody earnestly seeking release from the bondage of this particular sin, only trying to convince the rest of us that it is not sin at all - for they have the correct interpretation of the Bible and we are all moping in the dark. You get the picture?

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gina:
Joshua, stop! There is no reason to use any other literature or books or what any other person on this world has to say on the issue apart from the word of God. Straight up truth. Are you willing to get everything you've read, pro or con, out of your mind and start over, just reading straight from the word of God as if you'd never thought about it before? Just clear your mind of all thoughts about it and then start reading the word of God, and ONLY the word of God about it. ?
Gina<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Gina, why would I want to start that process all over again. I came to the Bible believing that homosexuality was a sin. I spent years studying the issue. I came to the conclusion that homosexuality is not a sin.

Why should I start over?

Also, I don't think it's theologically healthy to just "read the Bible" without using outside resources in cases like this. Fundamentalists certainly don't do that when I point out that according to the Bible God doesn't mind if we beat someone who is our property (as long as they can walk after a couple of days) or that God thinks it's an abomination if we touch or eat an unclean animal.

Joshua