UNFRIENDLY BAPTISTS

Dr. Bob:

Bless you for not trying to shake everyone's hand. At my church of several years, I don't think I've ever shaken the pastor's hand -- and I sing in the choir. If I had something to talk to him about in particular, I would look him up. I figure he doesn't need to be bothered by an extra person just to shake hands with. This is no lack of respect; in a large church, just trying to remember everyone is enough of a hassle.

As far as outreach -- that's the congregation's job. When I was out of choir for a while, a fellow choir member encouraged me to come back. I did.

I don't think friendliness is next to godliness. Welcoming is more important than glad-handing. The church is not a social club. It's nice to be friendly, but the ministry is more important. Not everyone who walks into a church wants to be slapped on the back.

[ May 23, 2002, 08:47 PM: Message edited by: rsr ]

Well, it seems I am very lucky in that I attend a very friendly church in my opinion. The first time I visited so many people came up to me and greeted me it was a little startling. We have a group of men who believe it's their ministry to greet people. Also, we have a period during the Sunday services where the praise leader ask everyone to go and seek visitors out and greet each other. We also have FAITH teams that go out and visit anyone who comes to our church. I participate in these FAITH teams. I must agree it's the leadership in the church and how much they emphasize friendliness and fellowship.

Steven

At my old church in Florida, when I visited for the first time, I filled out a card and NNE ever visited me. My sister-in-law became a member around the same time as I did and when she had her 2nd child about a year later, a group from the church visited her in the hospital and then OUR Sunday School class brought prepared meals for the family during the first two weeks of having the newborn. Several months later when I gave birth to my 2nd child (mind you, I'm a member JUST THE SAME as my sister-in-law and at the time was involved in MORE ministries than her), NNE came to visit me in the hospital and NNE helped with prepared meals from my Sunday School class...it was a horrible slight. I never did anything to anyone, I was always helpful and volunteered for alot of things. I just wasn't the "type" they wanted in their clique I guess.

When I visited my now home church, we got there early and the only one there was the Asst. Pastor and he shook our hands, showed us around, told us about the church and was genuinely happy to see us! When people began to show up, we were bombarded with greetings from just about everyone there! We were quite overwhelmed actually. Then as the Pastor was dismissing for Sunday School, the teachers for each of my children came over and took them by the hand and led them to their classes. It was such a wonderful experience! To this day, we've been members there for just shy of one year, if we miss a service, we get a phone call or someone stops by to see if we are ok, etc. My church has taught me how Christians are supposed to act and I thank God for these loving people. I'm not saying my church is perfect, cuz we do have issues, but friendliness is not one of them.

Kathy
<><

I was first "baptized" in the Bible Baptist Church in my poor country, the Philippines. Didn't have a problem with who was friendly or not because I didn't join to be popular. Just to worship my Savior, that's all, and get whipped with His word, or calmed by it, depending on the message.
Moving on from that church, I found that most Baptist churches' personalities are formed by what they are fed from the pulpit, and the examples they see from their elders (not necessarily elder in age).
I've been asked to leave a church,too, just like Wayne, and I did, right there and then, wiping the dust of my shoes right there before their very eyes.
I was wondering about Wayne's testimony. Why did they ask you to leave, Wayne ? There has to be a reason.
For my part, it was because they learned I smoked occassionally. In fairness, they did speak to me three times, but I simply did not see the connection between being a Christian and smoking if they told me it was because tobacco was bad for the body which is God's temple.
Acquired obesity is just as bad for the body, as well as caffeine, and the pastor and elders who were preaching to me about the sin of tobacco all had waists well over 42, and all were heavy coffee drinkers ! When we passed out tracts and had to walk miles, I'd hear them wheezing and snorting after the first mile, I felt like I was walking a bunch of hogs.
So, they finally asked me to leave.
I've had my name taken off the roster of graduates from the Bible Seminary I attended because the pastor/president learned I had become
a firm believer in God's electing grace. There still was a reason, odd as it may be, so what was the reason Wayne was asked to leave.
It is good for the heart of church members to be friendly and loving to one another, and that is what they are supposed to be as a church.
I've never had this "fellowship and friendliness" problem with any of the Primitive Baptist Churches I've visited with.

If we study the New Testament the commandment that is given is that we are to love one another as we love ourselves including sinners, visitors etc. Now would we be unfriendly with ourselves.

There has been threads in the past about Baptist churches declining in numbers and I have read surveys which showed the main reason churches decline besides the ministry is unfriendliness.

Love is taught all through the New Testament and it is not love towards your fellow man if you are an unfriendly church. There is no excuse. Jesus is our example and he was the most friendliest of all.

I knew I would hear from people who I knew would say that people should not worry about the friendliness of the church but what is being preached but sorry people are human and they do want to be made to feel like they are welcomed and someone cares. If it doesn't bother you then you are one in the few.

As far as why one member got treated one way and another a different way. I have seen that over and over again. My wife when her first husband was dying with cancer was not helped by anyone in her Sunday school but a couple of times. No meals were brought to the house. (yes her husband was a member.) No one would volunteer to watch him since he was dying at home so she could go shopping so her and her daughter many times did without food. she was afraid to leave him.
Her daughter was depressed over her Dad dying so she wanted to take her to a Gospel concert and asked a deacon to help find someone to watch him and he said sure it would get taken care of so she bought these expensive tickets and when the day came no one showed up and the deacon lied to her. He said he tried to call everyone in the Sunday school class but when she questioned them they said he never contacted any of them. Not a person including the pastor or any other minister
would stay with her the night her husband was dying. One of the women from the church who was a nurse stayed with her for a couple of hours and she got lucky and got a friend of her husbands to come stay with her an hour before he died.

I have personally have had a problem with the fact that two ministers which one was the senior pastor came to the house but left when they knew he was dying.

I believe you should find another church. There are many Baptist churches that show love to one another. The church I belong to is small and we show love to each other and to visitors.

I have visited big churches before and almost every time I felt "alone", no one would go out of there way to be friendly. But that happens in all denominations, sadly.

In Christ,
Susan

I know it isn't just large Baptist churches since I have visited other kinds just to get a feel if it was something about the Baptists here or what. Every other large church was the same.

I am really getting a harsh feeling towards large churches and their mentality.

I still say it depends on the leadership. Just as a failing business cannot be blamed on employees but the blame must be placed on management, so I believe it is with churches. If the pastor makes outreach a priority, then the same attitude will funnel down thru the ranks, be it nursing home ministry, jail ministry, homeless ministry, singles ministry, friendliness to visitors, or neighborhood outreach.

Another problem that I believe is often overlooked is reaching out to single parents. Many people are single parents, not because they have done anything wrong, but had a spouse who just walked out leaving them with all the responsibilities of the family and child rearing. How many Baptist churches have an outreach just for single parents, especially for moms, since it is usually the dad who takes a walk? Young boys, especially, need a Godly male influence in their lives and could benefit from a Godly male doing something simple like offering to take them to a ball game, out for a pizza, the zoo, or anything. Church families should be encouraged to reach out to children of members who don't have moms or dads just for some good family times. (Many single moms don't have the funds to provide extras, either.)

These are just some ideas. But if the leadership of any church doesn't have a vision for the needs of the congregation or a vision for outreach of people's needs, then what is the point, I ask? Anybody can erect a building. We are exhorted to be lively stones in Ephesians and to reach out to others in need, whether it be for friendship, inclusion, or spreading the Gospel. Jesus was active and involved in people's lives and so should we be. The pastor who doesn't encourage his sheep to do likewise, is missing the boat--so heavenly minded he is no earthly good, IMHO.

Hrhema, it sounds like you need to find a new church where you will be happy.

One reason people use the "unfriendly" church excuse is because they feel uncomfortable when the Holy spirit is speaking to them. No one visits our church without many welcomes and greetings, yet when some pne visits they use the "unfriendly" excuse. Our greetngs aren't limited to "hi, how are you" but, we visit, spend time being friendly, attempting to get to know the visitor. Some times "unfriendly" is merely an excuse.

Ernie

Ernie

I tend to agree with Ernie on "unfriendly" sometimes being just an excuse.
Also, I think when we step out of the area and out of sight of our church family, and visit another church, we expect them to be like our church family, and when they're not we get disappointed.
Oh, there really are "rough" churches, surely.
But there are more churches which are truly sincere in greeting those who visit with them and in their desire to feel these welcomed.
But going back to Wayne.
I still could not imagine a church, or its leaders, just by whim, walking up to somebody and telling him to leave and don't come back.
Considering he is not Baptist, and the church, judging by his caustic remark, is Baptist, could it be because he was causing some sort of division ?

We never ask anyone to leave, unless they are causing a disturbance.

I remember years ago a rough looking young airman from the nearby air base coming to visit.

He had a scowl on his face that would intimidate the meanest Baptist preacher. He sat and scowled the whole service. He never smiled even when greeted with a smile, just scowled. His dress was jeans with big wide red suspenders, hair parted in the middle and looked meaner than a rattle snake.Praise God he came more than once.

Everytime he would enter the chow hall he would yell as loud as he could at this other airman "Hey preacher!" This young airman invited to church many times and he finally agreed to come. Later he told us the only reason he agreed to attend church was so he could harass the pastor while he was preaching, but after hearing the message he lost all desire to be mean. The Lord got hold of his heart and wouldn't let go. Not only did he get saved, but surrendered to preach and graduated from our bible institute.

The point is you never send anyone away, because God brought them for a reason. Over the years we have had some characters attend, some have been saved others not, but they all heard the Gospel at least once.

Ernie

[ May 25, 2002, 09:45 AM: Message edited by: Ernie Brazee ]

I have to believe what Wayne said is true because I was sent to Southern Baptist churches in Houston when I was growing up. My Dad never went to church and my mom went sporadically.

My sister and I went to one large church and I never missed a Sunday morning unless we were out of town or I was sick.

The church had a library where children could check out books. I and my sister checked out two books a piece. They were to be returned in 2 weeks or you got a fine. After having them
for a week my dad got injured on the job and we had to go out of town for his treatments so the books went one week past due. We returned the books and paid the fees but was told we were no longer welcomed in that church.

I stayed away from church for about 5 years after that and when I got back to a church it was not Baptist.

I have returned to the Baptist church and have been attending one for the last 3 years.

I knew when I wrote this post that people would get defensive and say that this is an excuse people uses. I am sorry it is not and no it is not just the church i attend that is like this.
It is the large Baptist churches in this area.

If you go to a church that is friendly then you are lucky. Yet don't think all churches are the way yours is.

I feel that if small churches can be friendly so can large churches.

Yes, I also agree that this tends to be a leadership issue. I have been amazed by what little Pastors at these large churches do for the large salaries they receive.

Back in the 50-70's pastors in large churches even stood at the door and shook hands with the people. There is no excuse or reason that they cannot do this now. Every person in the ministry at the church ought to be moving through the crowds greeting the people and or telling how much they are welcomed. I see them standing around doing nothing. It is like they don't have a heart for the people so I don't know why they feel they have a calling to the ministry at all.

Never been comfortable in a large church, some of the pople were friendly, can't say the church was unfriendly just too big to notice individuals.

No way the pastor can be a shepherd, he has to have assistants doing his work of visiting the sicka nd calling on visitors. When a church gets so big the assitants have to do the pastors work, it is time to start another church!

Ernie

For the most part people in churches have been about as friendly as I had acted. One of the most friendly churches I have ever been to was a SBC church in Memphis,Tn. and I'm not SBC but am a IFB. It was Belleview(I hope I have spelling correct)Baptist Church the one Adrian Rogers is pastor. I've been in towns that didn't have that many people, but it was a loving and friendly group of folks. I felt like they cared about me and my soul, what a great feeling.

I and my family have visited a number of churches in our area. The church where we are currently members is in a leadership crisis, (but that's a long story in and of its self), and so we are searching for a new church.
I have noticed that the larger churches, while not always unfriendly, were without a doubt impersonal. The smaller churches we have visited have been a mix of hot and cold. Some have made us feel very welcome while others have made us feel very, very uncomfortable indeed.
A good example of this is a small church we spotted during a drive. Now we prefer Independant Baptist, and that was what the sign proclaimed and so we decided to attend a Sun. service. We have two small children but no one mentioned a nursery and so, not knowing the building assumed they didn't have one. My oldest son, who is about 2 1/2 loves to try and sing along with everyone else during the song service, and I feel no need to tell him to stop, (the voice of a child is as dear to God as any adults). The first song was sung without a hitch, but halfway through the second song, an older lady sitting in front of us turned and said, (in the most increadably snotty voice and loud enough for the whole church to hear), "We have a nursery, you know". The look of utter disgust on her face could have killed a sunny day. My wife wanted to leave right that minute, but I refused to let something like this keep me from receiving God's word and so we sat through the whole service.(We also did NOT seek out the nursery nor did the old snit or anyone else bother to point it out to us). When we left, the pastor gave us a plastered on smile and murmmered: "Hope to see you again". We never did go back and no one ever contacted us,(and yes, we had filled out a visitors card).
We have had different, but no less discouraging encounters in other churches, but I refuse to accept that there is not another church we can attend and feel at home in. I also do not assume that every Baptist church will be the same, I have been in too many over the years that were as friendly as could be. I know that we will find one with God's help.
(Of course, if things get straightened out in our current home church, there will be no need to find another, but I fear that this church will close first. Already more that half the congregation has left for other churches and that includes all of the original members who were there when we first started attending three years ago).

Your brother in Christ,
Shdwpoet

hrhema, May I encourage you to keep looking in your area. I visited no less than 6 IFB (Independent Fundamental Baptist) churches in your area while raising my financial support to come here. Some of the friendliest, most doctrinally pure, faithfully serving churches are right there in your area. Don't give up. You will reap if you faint not. Not one of 'em supports me, but I guarentee at least one of these will be an improvement for you. *smile*

I just got back from a trip that included going to a large Baptist church in Michigan. We went with some friends who said that they have been going there for about three months, but no one has greeted them, except for people they know from their lives outside the church walls. They were right. No one greeted us except for the door greeter.

Their church is hoping to have a fellowship hour between their two services. Hopefully, it will not be like Dr. Bob says - an hour to fellowship with those they already know, and leave the visitors alone.

My husband and I have known several people who went to big churches solely for the purpose of getting lost in the crowd. They were tired of doing all the serving in their smaller churches. Once they got refreshed, they returned to a smaller church. So I guess big, unfriendly churches aren't all bad.