Well, it seems this thread was forgotten about, but here are the quotes I was referring to on the last post: Here are the quotes of Watkins and Godwin. Once again, tell me if anything the music styles int he church warrant this:
This "Why Should the Devil Have All the Good Music?", rebellious, CCM attitude, is wicked, perverted, ****** and irreverent! And it is completely AGAINST the Word of God!
Woe unto them [ditto, Larry Norman, Paul Baker, Geoff Moore] that call evil GOOD, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter! Isaiah 5:20
The Lord Jesus Christ is completely OPPOSITE Larry Norman, Geoff Moore, Paul Baker and CCM: (Who do you think is RIGHT?)
A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a CORRUPT [DEVIL – ROCK MUSIC] tree bring forth GOOD fruit. Matthew 7:18
Does not "Why Should the Devil Have All the Good Music?" PRAISE the Devil and his music? And on the opposite side of the statement — Larry Norman, Paul Baker, Geoff Moore and CCMers, are subtlety (see Gen. 3:1) "PUTTING-DOWN" the Lord God and His music! This is God Almighty that has NO GOOD MUSIC! This is the Creator of the universe that has NO GOOD MUSIC! And you're asking people to love, trust and serve a God that can NOT write or inspire ONE GOOD SONG in 6,000 years and millions of songs!
WOW! Somebody's elevator is not coming up to the top. Somebody's a couple of fries away from a "happy meal"! (I'll give you a hint – they believe the Devil has ALL the GOOD music).
Goebbels [or Satan] was correct — tell the biggest, most outrageous lie; tell it often enough; tell it loudly enough — and eventually people will believe it!
Good work Larry Norman and CCM! Your rebellious attitude, lies, lack of spiritual "guts" and convictions, are destroying the "foundations" of real Christian music and convictions in many of these CCM "nurtured" young people. Goebbels [and the "father of LIES" – Satan] would be proud!
Here's another interesting perspective, to Larry Norman's and CCM's, "Why Should the DEVIL Have All the Good Music"? — by their own admission — ROCK MUSIC IS FROM THE DEVIL! The reason, I emphasize that, many CCMer's "go in to looney-land" trying to "exorcise" the devil from rock music.
Do they provide any serious research or documentation to back up such a claim? Of course not, only a "brain-dead-agenda-bound-rock-loving-disobedient-CCMer" would make such a ridiculous and laughable statement [we'll discuss this in much more detail and provide documented research to "prove" where rock music came from in a later article].
Petra recorded the song "God Gave Rock And Roll To You" one of the most perverted songs ever recorded! They sing: God gave rock and roll to you/ put it in the soul of everyone. . . SICK! PERVERTED! BLASPHEMY!Listen to it. Who but a SPIRITUAL IDIOT would think a holy God gave the rebellion of rock'n roll!
Surely "goody-goody" CCM's "Point of Grace" wouldn't sing ANYTHING by "new-age- occultic" Earth, Wind and Fire"?
OH YES THEY WOULD! (Printed in 24 point size)
Webster dictionary defines "blasphemy" as "lack of reverence for God." Blasphemy saturates Christian rock, such as the blasphemous "humor" of Carman Dominic Licciardello, better known as Carman. His blasphemous, street-jive, dialogue between John the Baptist and Jesus Christ as teenagers on his video Live. . . Radically Saved is digusting! Here's a sample of Carman's blasphemy: JOHN: "Hey man, Hey cuz, Whatchoo doin man? I ain't seen you in a long time. HEY, BABY." (John calling Jesus baby!) Jesus turns and says, "Hey, what's up, John?" See, Jesus is always cool; he's always together. He's got his thing together, y' know, Then Carman blasphemously imitates the Lord Jesus Christ walking hip-jive doing what Carman calls "THE MESSIAH WALK". UNGODLY! BLASPHEMY!
Carman's PERVERTED humor is the lowest BLASPHEMY I've ever heard!
And God's people defend this blasphemous trash! (24 point)
Like the group dc Talk... Ecclesiastes 1:9 says, " . . .there is NO NEW THING under the sun." But that was before dc Talk came along, as they sing, "God is doin' a NU THANG through our music" (they can't spell either!).
The Jesus DC Talk "raps" is a hip-hopping, rapping, groovy, "just alright" — FREAK!
After a an hour performance, there is not even enough of God for the lost world to even know these "so-called CHRISTian stars" are Christians! What a pitiful excuse for a Christian! Shame on you Smith! These young people are looking at you for help and inspiration and you ol'backslidden-carnal-coward, you won't even mention the name of the ONLY HELP in this universe that can help them! Many of these young people are from broken homes, shattered lives, facing tremendous peer-pressure, begging for something REAL and you will not even mention the ONLY REAL HELP in the universe! Shame on you!
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Posting all of this here still does not do justice to it. You have to see the site with the various forms of emphasis he uses--large point sizes, colors, italics et--which have the effect of screaming. He sounds like a madman, just for some Christians using a style of music (even if some of them did go too far in the gimmicks and secular bands they copy, which I agree. Yet mild responses of CCM defenders are "attacks", right? My responses are "vicious slander, right?
Even when he is not so harsh, he is still sassy as a spoiled rotten child:
You'll never guess the song dc Talk uses toward the close of their "Jesus Freak" concert? Amazing Grace? Blessed Assurance? OH NO! They do a cover of Kurt Cobain and Nirvana's "All Apologies"!
Let's get something straight dc Talk! Jesus Christ is not "alright"! Jesus Christ is NOT 1) well enough 2) and satisfactory! Jesus Christ is the Lord of Lords and the King of Kings!
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Here's where he refuses any disagreement:
"We do NOT debate. We do NOT argue. But we welcome any King James Bible answers to CCM." and that "All E-mails violating these requests...may get a canned response of "IGNORED" because we will not waste our time further with those trying to rationalize their wicked behavior with the Word of God."
Once again, no civil discourse, no respect of honest disagreements; they are so RIGHT, that they should just be able to balk AT people once again, and not be questioned (anyone questioning is just trying to justify their own "wickedness" anyway). Isn't this strikingly similar to a defiant child plugging up his ears and making noise so not to hear someone he is arguing with, and have the last word? (A classic picture of bona-fide rebellion!) As you'll see next, their whole attitude is that to talk to them, you must come to them on your knees, admitting that they're right in their interpretation of the Bible:
"This is not for C-rockers unless you plan on repenting and following what the Bible teaches! The purpose is to assist Christians that are serious in defending their churches against this wile (C-rock and CCM) of our adversary."
And with all of this holy indignation, if you go to av1611.org and click the link to the music ministry he supports, what style will you find? Country! Most of the other critics now condemn country as just as worldly and sensuous as rock! It too is full of themes of adultery, breakups and other sins. In fact, it's said that if rock&roll=sex, then country is the 'guilty afterglow'! Yet this critic seems to think it's OK, as did many other southern fundamentalists. Once again, this shows us how it is never safe to be that hard on others. (Though I wonder if the other critics overlook this)
Godwin is not quite this bad, but with him, the vitriol is spread out in the words he says:
"...the angry, confused, denying and deluded C- Rock fan will always hit one final button as a last resort in his effort to justify his sin: It's called self-righteous pride. Yet C- Rock defenders continually justify their sin by patting their own backs. Noses in the air, they demand a scripture that says: "THUS SAITH THE LORD; THOU SHALT NOT LISTEN TO 'CHRISTIAN' ROCK". They overlook the fact the Bible also fails to specifically mention marijuana, cocaine, X-rated porno movies, and abortion as sins. Does that make them any less sinful? Biblical holiness from Genesis to Revelation is swept under the rug by this kind of rock-hard, rebellious heart. C-Rock brainwashing has completed its task. The victim's rebellion is now set in concrete. Though living totally contrary to God's Word, the deluded, confused and hard-hearted C-Rock victim prides himself in his "'powerful" testimony for Jesus Christ. (What's Wrong With Christian Rock's Fruits? /
http://www.freedomministries.org.uk/godwin/jefchap1.shtml)
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First, it's striking how Godwin describes "C-rockers" as going through psychological-style cycles of trauma (much like someone who has been raped or lost a close loved one tragically) over his teachings. (The main difference is that the standard cycle ends in "acceptance" while the "C- rocker" cycle ends in "REBELLION") You can almost detect a sense of satisfaction that he has such an effect on people (I am so right that people just can't deal with my "truth", and go into anger, confusion, denial, etc) But actually, the cycle he describes is actually a perfect descriptions of critics such as himself. They are the ones who are the most angry (just look at his whole diatribe as well as many of the others), much more so than the CCM fans, who are generally passive and often apathetic, as I have mentioned.
Here's another possibility: Many a C-Rock fan has become so violent in their deluded defense of an ungodly, wicked mockery of Christian music they can't HEAR the Holy Spirit's voice anymore!
(So once again, the work of the Spirit can be set aside. Now how do I possibly know what is right? Why, by what they tell me, of course.)
What absolute hogwash! This kind of nonsense is typical of self-serving C-Rock deception. First: There AREN'T any grey areas in the Bible! From Genesis to Revelation, God lays everything out in blacks and whites: Blessings/Cursings, Life/ Death, Heaven/Hell, God/Satan, Christ/the world. Now make your choice. Why don't these supporters of "Christian" trash come clean and admit the obvious." (
http://www.freedomministries.org.uk/godwin/jefchap1.shtml)
(So no issue requires "discernment", thought, prayer, or any other sort of discourse. It's these critics' way or no way at all, and if they say it's wrong, God has said it was wrong, case closed.The Bible deals in "Blessings/Cursings, Life/ Death, Heaven/Hell, God/Satan, Christ/the world", and you can add to that "traditional/contemporary music".
Despite the fact that by Biblical authority the two issues addressed in these passages [Rom.14, 1Cor.8] are in fact such "gray areas" that require discernment as well as grace, and that they ignore the holes in their theory, such as the type of music that was accepted by God as worship in Israel, and the pagan influence in traditional forms. These points are precisely why an area like this is "gray" and requires discernment. Because no one has all the answers, and we are cautioned against making statements about our brother's walk based on our convictions when we ourselves do not see the whole picture either. The critics will go as far as discussing these two chapters of the Bible, but the outcome is always twisted to cover up their own egregious violations of the principles of these scriptures, and once again point the finger at their opponents. ("liberty is not 'licence to sin' or offend", etc. But once again, how do they have the authority to determine what is sin, or what offends God or anyone other than themselves?). You cannot try to override scriptures while pointing at everyone else as violating Scripture! )
And they all refer to the few responses the CCM crowd do make as "vicious slander" or "attacks", but it is still nowhere near the bile many of these critics are spewing (CCM leaders and fans never refer to the fundamentalists they criticize as "false", "apostate", "following the devil", etc. nor do they call the old music "wickedness" "wiles of Satan" or "trash")
So once again, in light of this, can these people be so right in this rhetoric and its tone if it's only "NT principle" and not clear, written NT command, that all lively music is abolished?
As I had said:
...any issue this important will be clearly delineated in scripture. Don't you think God would have specifically condemned rhythmic beats if they were so offensive to Him, and as destructive as these critics make them out to be? Salvation, new birth, the doctrines about Christ's birth, death, resurrection and return, and the Christian life are all directly taught, and repeated throughout scripture.
If all the stuff these people are saying is true; that lively music with rhythm is a "wicked mockery", then would God have ever allowed it even in His "puerile instruction of the Law" for Israel in the first place? Did God once allow "The wiles of Satan", in His camp (whether it was in the sanctuary or not?