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Eternal Security

Discussion in '2000-02 Archive' started by KenH, Aug 15, 2002.

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  1. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    From chapter 16 of Charles Spurgeon's Autobiography:

    nor can I comprehend a gospel which lets saints fall away after they are called, and suffers the children of God to be burned in the fires of damnation after having once believed in Jesus. Such a gospel I abhor.

    “If ever it should come to pass,
    That sheep of Christ might fall away,
    My fickle, feeble soul, alas!
    Would fall a thousand times a day”

    If one dear saint of God had perished, so might all; if one of the covenant ones be lost, so may all be; and then there is no gospel promise true, but the Bible is a lie, and there is nothing in it worth my acceptance. I will be an infidel at once when I can believe that a saint of God can ever fall finally. If God hath loved me once, then He will love me for ever. God has a mastermind; He arranged everything in His gigantic intellect long before He did it; and once having settled it, He never alters it, ‘This shall be done,” saith He, and the iron hand of destiny marks it down, and it is brought to pass. “This is My purpose,” and it stands, nor can earth or hell alter it. “This is My decree,” saith He, “promulgate it, ye holy angels; rend it down from the gate of Heaven, ye devils, if ye can; but ye cannot alter the decree, it shall stand for ever.” God altereth not His plans; why should He? He is Almighty, and therefore can perform His pleasure. Why should He? He is the All-wise, and therefore cannot have planned wrongly. Why should He? He is the everlasting God, and therefore cannot die before His plan is accomplished. Why should He change? Ye worthless atoms of earth, ephemera of a day, ye creeping insects upon this bay-leaf of existence, ye may change your plans, but He shall never, never change His. Has He told me that His plan is to save me? If so, I am for ever safe.

    “My name from the palms of His hands
    Eternity will not erase;
    Impress’d on His heart it remains,
    In marks of indelible grace.”

    I do not know how some people, who believe that a Christian can fall from grace, manage to be happy. It must be a very commendable thing in them to be able to get through a day without despair. f I did not believe the doctrine of the final perseverance of the saints, I think I should be of all men the most miserable, because I should lack any ground of comfort. I could not say, whatever state of heart I came into, that I should be like a well- spring of water, whose stream fails not; I should rather have to take the comparison of an intermittent spring, that might stop on a sudden, or a reservoir, which I had no reason to expect would always be full. I believe that the happiest of Christians and the truest of Christians are those who never dare to doubt God, but who take His Word simply as it stands, and believe it, and ask no questions, just feeling assured that if God has said it, it will be so. I bear my willing testimony that I have no reason, nor even the shadow of a reason, to doubt my Lord, and I challenge Heaven, and earth, and hell, to bring any proof that God is untrue. From the depths of hell I call the fiends, and from this earth I call the tried and afflicted believers, and to Heaven I appeal, and challenge the long experience of the blood-washed host, and there is not to be found in the three realms a single person who can bear witness to one fact which can disprove the faithfulness of God, or weaken His claim to be trusted by His servants. There are many things that may or may not happen, but this I know shall happen —

    “He shall present my soul,
    Unblemish’d and complete,
    Before the glory of His face,
    With joys divinely great”

    All the purposes of man have been defeated, but not the purposes of God. The promises of man may be broken-many of them are made to be broken-but the promises of God shall all be fulfilled. He is a promise-maker, but He never was a promise- breaker; He is a promise-keeping God, and every one of His people shall prove it to be so. This is my grateful, personal confidence, “The Lord will perfect that which concerneth me”-unworthy me, lost and ruined me. He will yet save me; and —

    “I, among the blood-wash’d throng,
    Shall wave the palm, and wear the crown,
    And shout loud victory”

    [ August 15, 2002, 07:08 PM: Message edited by: Ken Hamilton ]
     
    #1 KenH, Aug 15, 2002
  2. Ray Berrian

    Ray Berrian New Member

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    I praise God with you, Ken, that He cares enough to not let us go when we might have been less than faithful to Him. I'm totally depending on Him for my eternal security. It is all of grace!
     
    #2 Ray Berrian, Aug 15, 2002
  3. Eladar

    Eladar New Member

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    Not all who say to me Lord, Lord...
     
    #3 Eladar, Aug 16, 2002
  4. Primitive Baptist

    Primitive Baptist New Member

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    Even if you're not a 5-point Calvinist, you MUST believe in eternal security because the Bible says that those he foreknew, he predestinated, he called, he justified and he glorified! All of them. None of them will be lost. All of the called are justified and all of the justified are glorified. PRAISE GOD!

    Jesus said not all of them would enter into heaven because there are FALSE professors and just because they name the name of JESUS does NOT mean they are truly saved. Even the greatest cults in America worship "jesus." That is the context of the statement because Jesus goes on to tell how there will be people who have done might works IN HIS NAME, but they will still be cast into the lake of fire. That is what Jesus was saying....
     
    #4 Primitive Baptist, Aug 16, 2002
  5. Dualhunter

    Dualhunter New Member

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    Jesus died once and for all, in contrast to the animal sacrifices that were repeated becaue they could not make anyone perfect. If a person could lose salvation, they would not be able regain it because that would mean crucifying Christ again. However since no created thing (that includes ourselves and only God is uncreated) can separate us from the love of God and God Himself is on the same side as the Elect, I do not see any way for salvation to be lost in reference to those under the New Covenant in Christ's blood.
     
    #5 Dualhunter, Aug 16, 2002
  6. Eladar

    Eladar New Member

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    Even if you're not a 5-point Calvinist, you MUST believe in eternal security because the Bible says that those he foreknew, he predestinated, he called, he justified and he glorified! All of them. None of them will be lost. All of the called are justified and all of the justified are glorified. PRAISE GOD!

    If I were to go back in time and said that I knew the outcome of the race and that this outcome could not be changed, would the participants know the final outcome.

    What you are talking about is the elect. No where in the Bible does it state that the elect know who they are here on earth. Until the race is complete, the race the winner is still unkown.
     
    #6 Eladar, Aug 19, 2002
  7. pinoybaptist

    pinoybaptist Active Member
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    Sorry, Tuor.
    But I know I am one of the elect and speak for myself only. Others who profess His Name I accept on the basis of their profession, though I do not know if we will see each other in heaven finally.
    How do I know ?
    I know Him because He first knew me, and I love Him because He first loved me and when I was yet without strength He died for me.
     
    #7 pinoybaptist, Aug 19, 2002
  8. Ray Berrian

    Ray Berrian New Member

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    I believe in the perfect security of a born again person. Some people contend that the teaching of eternal security leads to antinomianism. I have no solid opinion about this.

    But, could it be that those who are taught Calvinism and in particular that there is no ‘free will' might believe that it is not them that backslide away from the Lord because they have no ‘free will' to accomplish this. It is not them that are becoming wayward, but some mysterious illusion is experiencing this. Could it be that they say since God ordains all events, that He made them backslide away from the Living God, and yet makes them responsible for their behavior.
     
    #8 Ray Berrian, Aug 19, 2002
  9. Eladar

    Eladar New Member

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    pinoybaptist,

    There is only one who is perfect and knows things perfectly and you are not Him. In other words, you could be wrong. What is going to happen on the day of judgement if it turns out that you are wrong? Are you going to argue with God?
     
    #9 Eladar, Aug 20, 2002
  10. Dualhunter

    Dualhunter New Member

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    You seem to be not only arguing against eternal security but also against assurance of salvation.

    13 (1) These things I have written to you who (2) believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have (3) eternal life. - 1 John 5:13 NASB

    Notice the "have", not will have, might have or anything like that. Also notice the "that you may know".
     
    #10 Dualhunter, Aug 20, 2002
  11. Eladar

    Eladar New Member

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    Yet the statement is a present tense statement. If we continue to believe until our death, then we will know we are saved.
     
    #11 Eladar, Aug 21, 2002
  12. Robert Nicholson

    Robert Nicholson New Member

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    When I think of eternal security the words of the Lord Jesus come to mind, "I give unto them eternal life and they shall never perish, neither shall any pluck them out of my hand" (John 10:28)

    When we are born from above are we not placed as sons into the family of God (Eph. 1:5) and as such we are "heirs and joint heirs" with our Lord Jesus Christ (Rom. 8:17) This position in Christ is not temporary or dependent on our works, but eternal since we are "accepted in the beloved" Eph. 1:6

    Safe in the hollow of his hand
    Robert
     
    #12 Robert Nicholson, Aug 21, 2002
  13. Dualhunter

    Dualhunter New Member

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    John said that he was writing so that the reader may know that he has eternal life. There would be no point in him doing that if the reader would only find out once he died.

    8 Therefore (1) do not be ashamed of the (2) testimony of our Lord or of me (3) His prisoner, but join with me in (4) suffering for the (5) gospel according to the power of God,
    9 who has (6) saved us and (7) called us with a holy (8) calling, (9) not according to our works, but according to His own (10) purpose and grace which was granted us in (11) Christ Jesus from (12) all eternity, - 2 Timothy 1:8-9 NASB

    Paul told Timothy that they had both been saved.
     
    #13 Dualhunter, Aug 21, 2002
  14. Ray Berrian

    Ray Berrian New Member

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    Tuor,

    If you are saved you will know it. Romans 8:16 allows us this priviledge of knowing that He has included us in the covenant.
     
    #14 Ray Berrian, Aug 21, 2002
  15. Eladar

    Eladar New Member

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    Who was Jesus talking about in Matthew 7?

    ***See my first post of this thread***
     
    #15 Eladar, Aug 22, 2002
  16. Pete Richert

    Pete Richert New Member

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    Many in the Roman Catholic Church say "Lord Lord" daily and are very religious. If your believe their claims, many have even done very miraculous things while all the time claiming the name of Jesus. But they don't trust in Jesus for their salvation, but instead believe the must do this and that and earn this and that, and thay are exactly who Jesus was talking about. I believe there are many in our Baptist churches who are the same.

    I must always ask. How would you lose your salvation? If so, how would you get it back?
     
    #16 Pete Richert, Aug 22, 2002
  17. Eladar

    Eladar New Member

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    Your problem comes in understanding exactly when it is that our souls are actually 'saved'. According to 1 Corinthians 5:5

    to deliver him, [I say,] [being] such, to Satan for destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus

    Judgement comes in the day of the Lord Jesus, not one day earlier.
     
    #17 Eladar, Aug 22, 2002
  18. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    That is correct as far as our total salvation is concerned, our body along with our soul. Salvation occurs for the soul when it is resurrected at the point of regeneration, of being born from above. The soul does not die spiritually after that point so it is proper to talk of knowing we are saved now as the apostle John does in 1 John 5:13.

    Ken
    A Spurgeonite
     
    #18 KenH, Aug 22, 2002
  19. Pete Richert

    Pete Richert New Member

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    Tuor, I confused, are you responding to me?
     
    #19 Pete Richert, Aug 22, 2002
  20. Eladar

    Eladar New Member

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    Yes Pete I was talking to you. My question would then be, how can we lose something we haven't received?
     
    #20 Eladar, Aug 22, 2002
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